Question for Sythe in Regards to Stolen Goods

I think that the real issue is that most traders on Sythe are far too busy to do a background check on every single person who sells gold. We are all operating on strict deadlines with the new PA 20 minute timer, and buyer demands for instant delivery. Buying gold is often a frantic process in which we must make split second decisions on whether to buy or not, at the immediate risk of the business being brought elsewhere.

If we want this new method to work on Sythe, we need to have a quick and simple way of verifying gold is legitimately obtained, which absolves us from liability. Without a quick and simple way to confirm the legitimacy of the gold (to the best of our ability), we will become decreasingly competitive to anyone operating outside of Sythe.org.

My suggestion is that gold shops post some sort of disclaimer before a transaction. For example:

Before I trade with you, you must promise the gold you are selling is from a legitimate source, and is not hacked / stolen / otherwise illegally obtained. If that is correct, say "YES". If incorrect, say "NO".

If we provide this, and they have not provided any other details at the point of sale, I think the order should be legitimate. Although this obviously leaves open the ability for someone to just lie to us, I can't think of any other quick way (or realistic way) to verify legitimacy. The problem with virtual currency is that it has no serial #, and no direct way to distinguish dirty gold from clean gold. Please post your thoughts on this, Richard / community.

 

How many times does this have to be said for people to understand;

WE ONLY BAN FOR KNOWINGLY BUYING STOLEN GOLD

If they didn't tell you its stolen gold you're fine, but if someone tells you its stolen gold and you buy it, you're not fine.

 

So let's say someone told me 1 month ago on Skype they are a hacker (such as my case). If I don't scroll through my convos with them, and read it all, I don't know this. How does that work for liability. In the future I should just block them I suppose?

Define "knowingly".

And Corey, we are not trying to pester you guys on staff, but this is important for us to make clear. I know right now that the major sellers are putting in 16 hours+ per day on their shops. The potential risks to this (perm ban) are detrimental, we want very clearly communicated rules.

To define "Stolen Gold". I'm sure we all agree on the following:

- Hacked Paypals / other fraud
- Scammers on Forums
- Recovered Accounts?
- People who rob others at gunpoint for RS GP in a New York College classroom

How about these though?

- Duel Arena Buggers
- Lurers in-game
- Ban Evaders on Sythe

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only thing Viou admitted to doing was trading goods previously "stolen" (or obtained by dubious means) in game, which you just said you don't consider stolen?

"Viou: by scammers I mean people who acquired it through highly dubious methods in game (bug abusing, account recovering)"

Edit: I just read through everything Viou has posted on this topic of his gold buying. The only out of game scammers he admits to dealing with are account recoverers.
Important things to note:
1. Account recovering is NOT illegal, as far as I can judge. Therefore, taking gold off accounts recovered is not, legally, stealing.
2. I, and most members of the market community, consider account recovering a very immoral offense in the context of our community. I would not buy gold if I knew it had been hacked via account recovering.
3. There is no clear statement in the rules that bans this reselling gold that was obtained via account recovery.

 

He said that after he got banned, which is commonly called an excuse.

 

See the edit to my post. He never admitted to getting gold that can legally defined to be "stolen", either in his original post, pardon, ban dispute, or posted outside communications.

If he's telling the truth, I am not sure. I agree he easily could be lying to save his ass. However, if he never admitted to knowingly retrading "stolen" goods, he didnt break any rules in the first place and should not be banned.

 

Recovering an account that is not yours and taking the gold off it is stealing.

I can't believe I'm even having to explain this to you.

 

I would not expect that of you. I would want that person to remain banned.

I am questioning what is stolen property. I do not think he admitted to receiving stolen property. Furthermore, I do not think his guide was going to encourage or guide the trading of stolen property.

I am not arguing because I firmly believe Viou should be banned. In fact, I am not sure whether I think he should be banned or unbanned yet. I am arguing because I think this decision was made hastily, in a time of emotion, and if it is incorrect, unjustly removed one of the most dedicated and generous members of the community.

 

Sythe didn't ban Viou. I'm assuming you're saying the ban was made hastily in a time of emotion because of the threads Sythe recently posted in the spam forum.

So again, Richard didn't ban Viou, so therefore it was not made hastily in a time of emotion for the person who banned him.

 

So receiving gold through dubious means, such as duel arena glitching, isn't considered stolen? So you have to gain direct access to the account or perform a blatant scam to have stolen the gold? I am just trying to get what the definition of stolen here is. You can steal gold a lot of ways.

 

Ye, Sythe mentioned on R2P's thread that if the gold was acquired via ingame mechanics, such as staking bugs/pking/glitches then it's fine.

@Sythe, what happens when someone is scammed INGAME for items, and then those items are sold here? Sort of a grey area, as luring is technically considered scamming people for items by some users here.

 

1 word: Just un dude


Wasn't he orginally banned for selling people duped gold?

 

He was banned for lying to staff about selling duped gold.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that he was banned originally for selling duped gold. Then later, when he knew he had no chance of getting unbanned, did he lie to staff. Correct me if I'm wrong.