The thread disproves god entirely

[Shredderbeam]

sn1per, you can disprove the existence of a benevolent, omnipotent God with logic.

There is clearly misery in our world, and we would be much better off without it. God, being benevolent, wishes us to be free of misery, and is more than capable of eliminating it, yet misery remains. Therefore, a benevolent, omnipotent God does not exist.

To those who would plead "Free will!", I'm sure the all-powerful God could figure out a different strategy for accomplishing whatever goals he had when he placed us here on Earth.

Now that I think of it, does an all-powerful being need to create? I think not. If God is eternal, does that not mean that God is complete? If God is complete, he does not need to create us.

 

[ineed2sell]

uhmmmm well see god only helps them who helps theselves and yes he is lacking but only becuase people are beggers! think about it ... all we do is want things and gods all like im not giving you it unless you need it.. well
christian belief is "as long as you belive in god you go to heaven" well yeah true but so many other things about it you dont know... as long as you belive he is real then hey guess what? your going to heaven

 

[Shredderbeam]

uhmmmm well see god only helps them who helps theselves and yes he is lacking but only becuase people are beggers! think about it ... all we do is want things and gods all like im not giving you it unless you need it.. well
christian belief is "as long as you belive in god you go to heaven" well yeah true but so many other things about it you dont know... as long as you belive he is real then hey guess what? your going to heaven

That's assuming God exists, of course.

 

[sn1per]

sn1per, you can disprove the existence of a benevolent, omnipotent God with logic.

There is clearly misery in our world, and we would be much better off without it. God, being benevolent, wishes us to be free of misery, and is more than capable of eliminating it, yet misery remains. Therefore, a benevolent, omnipotent God does not exist.

To those who would plead "Free will!", I'm sure the all-powerful God could figure out a different strategy for accomplishing whatever goals he had when he placed us here on Earth.

Now that I think of it, does an all-powerful being need to create? I think not. If God is eternal, does that not mean that God is complete? If God is complete, he does not need to create us.

this has already been said in the thread already. Since your not christian i dont expect you to know much about it. But its said in the bible that he gave us free will. perfect doesnt mean everyones happy. there has to be inperfections. And he wants us all to be happy, meaning in the afterlife, not present. As long as we live a good life, we will all end up happy in the afterlife. Life we live freely and he does not interfere. Its the after life where he ensures us hapiness, As long as we behave ourselves. If not well then we goto hell i guess. As long as your sorry for your sins ull go too. Sure some kids get killed without doing much, but they goto heaven. This is why he does not interfere with this part of our lives.

 

[Shredderbeam]

this has already been said in the thread already. Since your not christian i dont expect you to know much about it. But its said in the bible that he gave us free will. perfect doesnt mean everyones happy. there has to be inperfections. And he wants us all to be happy, meaning in the afterlife, not present. As long as we live a good life, we will all end up happy in the afterlife. Life we live freely and he does not interfere. Its the after life where he ensures us hapiness, As long as we behave ourselves. If not well then we goto hell i guess. As long as your sorry for your sins ull go too. Sure some kids get killed without doing much, but they goto heaven. This is why he does not interfere with this part of our lives.

Just a heads up: I was born into Catholicism, so I know quite a bit about Christian logic.

But why does a perfect God have a need to create us?

And why would a loving God condemn us to Hell?

 

[Ilovecheating]

Just a heads up: I was born into Catholicism, so I know quite a bit about Christian logic.

But why does a perfect God have a need to create us?

And why would a loving God condemn us to Hell?

And why would a loving mother beat her child with a yard stick when he did wrong?

Also above in your "logical" statement disproving god. How would you logically get rid of all the misery in the world?

 

[Shredderbeam]

And why would a loving mother beat her child with a yard stick when he did wrong?

To punish them. However, God is capable of showing the perpetrators of crime just how they did wrong without ever harming them, being all-powerful and such.

Also above in your "logical" statement disproving god. How would you logically get rid of all the misery in the world?

I would skip the Earth stage, and just let everyone into heaven.

 

[sn1per]

Just a heads up: I was born into Catholicism, so I know quite a bit about Christian logic.

But why does a perfect God have a need to create us?

And why would a loving God condemn us to Hell?

he doesnt condemn us to hell. We do it ourselves based on how we live. And i dont believe he sentances us. Evil people are taken over by the devil, so as a result go with him. its who we choose to be with. As for why would a perfect god need to create us, im just going to use this quote i found

"God's Word tells us that in the beginning He created the heavens and the earth, day and night, and all the animals of our planet. The culmination was the creation of man."

other then that, i dont really wanan start stating the bible and explaining things (no offense). so ill just let u look at this

http://www.carm.org/sermons/1Cor_1-9.htm



and just letting ppl into heaven? He gave us free will as a gift. We choose to abuse it or not therefore we choose our fate. it be like if i asked you "you wanna hang around with someone who kills 50ppl and feels no guilt"?

 

[Shredderbeam]

He creates us. He knows how we will react, how we will choose, etc.

He can cleanse people of the devil if he so wishes.

Also, God created Lucifer. Being omniscient, he knew that he would turn against him. He also knew that he would drag billions of people with him to Hell. Why would he create Lucifer, then?

I've read the Bible. There is nothing to explain.

 

[Ilovecheating]

To punish them. However, God is capable of showing the perpetrators of crime just how they did wrong without ever harming them, being all-powerful and such.



I would skip the Earth stage, and just let everyone into heaven.

Your first statement is assuming that god never punish's anyone. He may be able to show how they did wrong. But maybe showing them isn't enough. And if he controlled their mines to make them never do it again he would be going against the whole "free will" policy. So he cannot do such a thing.

If you let everyone into heaven then misery would move into heaven instead of staying on earth. Earth is the filter. All the "good" goes into heaven and all the "bad" goes into "hell". Just because you are in heaven does not automatically make everyone happy.

 

[sn1per]

He creates us. He knows how we will react, how we will choose, etc.

He can cleanse people of the devil if he so wishes.

Also, God created Lucifer. Being omniscient, he knew that he would turn against him. He also knew that he would drag billions of people with him to Hell. Why would he create Lucifer, then?

I've read the Bible. There is nothing to explain.

once again im going to say, people choose who they want to follow not god.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Your first statement is assuming that god never punish's anyone. He may be able to show how they did wrong. But maybe showing them isn't enough. And if he controlled their mines to make them never do it again he would be going against the whole "free will" policy. So he cannot do such a thing.

He doesn't have to punish anybody. He creates people a certain way, knowing what they will do. All he has to do is create good people.

If you let everyone into heaven then misery would move into heaven instead of staying on earth. Earth is the filter. All the "good" goes into heaven and all the "bad" goes into "hell". Just because you are in heaven does not automatically make everyone happy.

I think heaven is a bit beyond misery.

God creates the bad. He purposefully creates them, knowing the evil that they will work, then sends them to Hell. Not quite fair.

once again im going to say, people choose who they want to follow not god. http://www.sythe.org/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1981412

God, being omniscient, knew who they would choose, yet still created them.

 

[sn1per]

He doesn't have to punish anybody. He creates people a certain way, knowing what they will do. All he has to do is create good people.



I think heaven is a bit beyond misery.

God creates the bad. He purposefully creates them, knowing the evil that they will work, then sends them to Hell. Not quite fair.

God, being omniscient, knew who they would choose, yet still created them.

He isnt perfect without creating imperfections. if god made everyone happy free will would be taken away.

 

[Ilovecheating]

He doesn't have to punish anybody. He creates people a certain way, knowing what they will do. All he has to do is create good people.



I think heaven is a bit beyond misery.

God creates the bad. He purposefully creates them, knowing the evil that they will work, then sends them to Hell. Not quite fair.

God, being omniscient, knew who they would choose, yet still created them.

1) He knows what he is going to create is evil but if he chose not to create it he would be taking away the beings choice (free will).

2) You're saying that if everyone that was put on earth is put into heaven there would be no misery?

3) Again god creates them allowing them to make their own choices. Even if those choices are not of good intent. Anything not pure (clear of sins) cannot enter Heaven. So god is only making the choice to create them and it is the acts of those who he creates that keep them from enterring Heaven.

 

[Shredderbeam]

1) He knows what he is going to create is evil but if he chose not to create it he would be taking away the beings choice (free will).

By not creating it, he would simply never allow it to live. That would not interfere with free will.

Also, if he creates it, it can be argued that the being has no free will, because God planned its entire life out for it, everything that would happen to it, ALL OF ITS CHOICES, etc.

2) You're saying that if everyone that was put on earth is put into heaven there would be no misery?

Heaven, the place of ultimate bliss? Yep, there would be no misery.

3) Again god creates them allowing them to make their own choices. Even if those choices are not of good intent. Anything not pure (clear of sins) cannot enter Heaven. So god is only making the choice to create them and it is the acts of those who he creates that keep them from enterring Heaven.

But surely there could be a lesser punishment for sinning? Why must it be eternal torture? What would that accomplish?

He isnt perfect without creating imperfections.

How do you rationalize that?

 

[sn1per]

1) He knows what he is going to create is evil but if he chose not to create it he would be taking away the beings choice (free will).

2) You're saying that if everyone that was put on earth is put into heaven there would be no misery?

3) Again god creates them allowing them to make their own choices. Even if those choices are not of good intent. Anything not pure (clear of sins) cannot enter Heaven. So god is only making the choice to create them and it is the acts of those who he creates that keep them from enterring Heaven.

took the words outa my mouth. i was going to extend my answer but i was eating. nice

 

[Spereff]

uhmmmm well see god only helps them who helps theselves and yes he is lacking but only becuase people are beggers! think about it ... all we do is want things and gods all like im not giving you it unless you need it.. well
christian belief is "as long as you belive in god you go to heaven" well yeah true but so many other things about it you dont know... as long as you belive he is real then hey guess what? your going to heaven

...Where are your sources coming from?

As humans, we have a seeking heart, a thirsty and hungry heart of something...everything we do, video games, forums, food, sleep, that can sustain us, and satisfy us, but forever? No. They're only temporalily, God is something that is always there, assuming you have faith, and he can truly fulfill our heart.

Christian belief is "As long as you believe in God, you go to Heaven?" No way. I'm a Christian, and our church, our community, doesn't say that. Oh yeah, I believe in God, I'm going to go to Heaven now. Hell no. It doesn't go that way, God wouldn't plan something so easy. He desires faith from us, and a heart longing for him. So of course, we'll have to believe in God, but also do other things, according to the Christian religion. But, I'm not saying becoming a hard core bitch.

 

[Ilovecheating]

By not creating it, he would simply never allow it to live. That would not interfere with free will.

Also, if he creates it, it can be argued that the being has no free will, because God planned its entire life out for it, everything that would happen to it, ALL OF ITS CHOICES, etc.

Heaven, the place of ultimate bliss? Yep, there would be no misery.

But surely there could be a lesser punishment for sinning? Why must it be eternal torture? What would that accomplish?

1) As you said he see's the future. So if he sees creating an "evil" being, it was already planned to happen. So by not doing it he is altering the future in which the "evil" being would be created and have his own free will. So you are denying him a free will.

2) It is the place of ultimate bliss because only certain essences are able to enter. If you got rid of earth everything would either go straight to hell or heaven. Which means you would take away everyone's ability to live on earth and make their choices.

3) People are tortured according to their sin in hell. The tortures of hell have not been perfectly defined so we do not know exactly what happens in hell. All that is known is you do get punished. But to what extent is a different story.

 

[Shredderbeam]

1) As you said he see's the future. So if he sees creating an "evil" being, it was already planned to happen. So by not doing it he is altering the future in which the "evil" being would be created and have his own free will. So you are denying him a free will.

But that being never would have had a free will, since they are nothing but what God made them! If they are a murderer, it's because God designed them to be one!

2) It is the place of ultimate bliss because only certain essences are able to enter. If you got rid of earth everything would either go straight to hell or heaven. Which means you would take away everyone's ability to live on earth and make their choices.

They cannot make choices! They are puppets on the strings of God!

3) People are tortured according to their sin in hell. The tortures of hell have not been perfectly defined so we do not know exactly what happens in hell. All that is known is you do get punished. But to what extent is a different story.

We do know, from reading the Bible, that Hell is an eternal punishment that would shatter your mind.

 

[Ilovecheating]

But that being never would have had a free will, since they are nothing but what God made them! If they are a murderer, it's because God designed them to be one!

They cannot make choices! They are puppets on the strings of God!

We do know, from reading the Bible, that Hell is an eternal punishment that would shatter your mind.

1) How do you know God doesn't simply create people with the ability to access all aspects of actions? Maybe one can decide to become a murderer as one can decide to stop people from killing eachother. But both people have the same options. The only thing stated is that God can see what choices they are going to make. The rest is merely our beliefs and oppinions on the subject.

2) If it were they were puppets on the strings of God then again they would not have free will which means you are playing outside of the rules. If they cannot make choices that means they have no free will which means you're ignoring the concepts altogether.

3) Does it actually state in the bible that all souls senteced to hell recieve the same punishments? If so I would like a source just so I could read it. I'm not being sarcastic if it comes across that way. I honestly just want to know. I am here merely to learn.