Amendment to Questing\Skilling Sub-Forum

[Biofighter]

Preface
In my opinion, the skilling\questing sub-forum appears to be a little nest for ban evaders to try scam an extra gp or two before being caught. The amount of "FREE" "CHEAP" "FAST" "LEGIT" threads is mind-boggling.
***I'm not saying that every newcomer offering cheap questing is a ban evader, I'm just making a general assumption***
The following is a list of all the skilling\questing services which have resulted in scams in the last month:

Spoiler: 4\11\15-4\11\15

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1903004-scam-report-porge-scammer.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1902768-live-once-scammed-me.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer...inion-jonathonn-terrible-business-ethics.html (Banned later, cya idiot)
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer...otting-quest-service.html?highlight=Jonathonn
http://www.sythe.org/15295723-post87.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1900690-zombified-scammer.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1906951-deadman-account-services-scam-sidexas.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1905116-rsprolegend1-scams-abeno1.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1902640-kingster-scammed-me.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1908772-coco_rold.html
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1908443-coca_rold-scammer.html

Potential Solution
I propose the Skilling\Questing sub-forum have a treatment similar to that of League of legends and mini-games sections; that is You may not offer ranked services higher than your screenshot proof. | you must post least 1 completed firecape picture | http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-runescape-minigame-services/1632248 you must post least 1 completed torso picture.html.

This being said, it should read something on the lines of A user offering skilling services can only offer skilling to the level in which they can provide proof of, and likewise with quest points, a QP service should at least show proof of completion of barrows gloves. This is a very basic suggestion of the wording, wording can be adjusted as need be by admins

Main Concerns
Limiting the Market: If a user cannot/Has not completed something on their own personal account, how can we prove that they are capable of completing it?

Risk of main account being leaked:Just show the first digit of the skill (eg: 99 could be 9*/9*)

What does this actually gain?: Proving the skiller in question is capable of the job is better than just trusting a random newcomer who for all we know might have 1 hunter and really wants your fury + cashpile instead of doing 53-83 hunter. Beyond this, repeat offenders may be easier to be caught as similar stats are easier to prove than a vps of a vps of a vps of a vpn.


Edit: Shoutout to the realest bloke out there

I can do ALOT of pure quests & other basic quests. I don't have much experience with main quests.

 

I'm glad you've brought attention to this; however, I'm not sure your suggestion is the most viable option. A user can take a picture from another thread (somewhat hard to catch), take a picture online, or take a picture of their actual account but still intend to scam.

There currently is a sticky (linked below) that kind of hints that these kinds of things happen. What I'd support is a revamp of that sticky, with a more attention-grabbing title that warns users to transfer their valuables before trusting skillers with their bank.

Thread - http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-rune...l-training-services-guide-frustrated-mod.html

 

[Lilmj27]

with a more attention-grabbing title that warns users to transfer their valuables before trusting skillers with their bank.

To me this is the key thing here. Scamming that 6m you paid for a couple levels isn't that big of a deal. The issue is when they scam the 200m you left on the account. Transferring the wealth off the account should be done no matter how trusted the leveler is. You can go from 0 to 160 quest points with like 1m and some cheap combat gear, obviously for stuff like herblore or prayer you'll need to trust them with the materials, but then they should be using more trusted people.

Overall, I think there's a problem with scamming in these forums, but it stems more from the buyer than the seller. If the buyer is careful and goes about it correctly the odds of a scam become very low, obviously this is true else where but especially here.

 

[Brendan]

It's definitely a problem area, no doubt about it. I'd lean more towards stickies notifying users to be more wary that they're risking valuables with training compared to requiring members to show that they know what they're doing.

I'm glad you've brought attention to this; however, I'm not sure your suggestion is the most viable option. A user can take a picture from another thread (somewhat hard to catch), take a picture online, or take a picture of their actual account but still intend to scam.

There currently is a sticky (linked below) that kind of hints that these kinds of things happen. What I'd support is a revamp of that sticky, with a more attention-grabbing title that warns users to transfer their valuables before trusting skillers with their bank.

Thread - http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-rune...l-training-services-guide-frustrated-mod.html

I'd consider this the best option.

 

[Biofighter]

I'm glad you've brought attention to this; however, I'm not sure your suggestion is the most viable option. A user can take a picture from another thread (somewhat hard to catch), take a picture online, or take a picture of their actual account but still intend to scam.

There currently is a sticky (linked below) that kind of hints that these kinds of things happen. What I'd support is a revamp of that sticky, with a more attention-grabbing title that warns users to transfer their valuables before trusting skillers with their bank.


Thread - http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-rune...l-training-services-guide-frustrated-mod.html

Stickies don't get read, also kind of brings a flaw into my suggestion, but you've seen how many times you've kindly wrote on acc selling posts "Hi there, you need to incorporate x into your thread, see the link here"
Overall I feel this would at least bring it in-line with the other forums.

To me this is the key thing here. Scamming that 6m you paid for a couple levels isn't that big of a deal. The issue is when they scam the 200m you left on the account. Transferring the wealth off the account should be done no matter how trusted the leveler is. You can go from 0 to 160 quest points with like 1m and some cheap combat gear, obviously for stuff like herblore or prayer you'll need to trust them with the materials, but then they should be using more trusted people.

Overall, I think there's a problem with scamming in these forums, but it stems more from the buyer than the seller. If the buyer is careful and goes about it correctly the odds of a scam become very low, obviously this is true else where but especially here.

Yes we preach "careful who you trade with, newcomers might be scammers" etc, but the fact of the matter is people see FREE and CHEAP and go for it.

 

[Brendan]

Yes we preach "careful who you trade with, newcomers might be scammers" etc, but the fact of the matter is people see FREE and CHEAP and go for it.

That's 100% true, we should never really technically blame the buyers, but scammers will easily be able to bypass the rule by finding an account somewhere and then photo shopping it or borrowing it to have the screenshot.

Another key issue is it can severely damage the business of legitimate sellers. Lets say a legitimate seller has never exceeded 50 woodcutting or doesn't have an account that proves that they've done a few novice quests. So we don't let them do these quests or train accounts past 50 woodcutting? That's just silly, cause they obviously know how to either cut a few trees or to follow an RS Wiki for some easy quests.

Stickies don't get read,

I understand that's a concern, but it's made abundantly clear to all new users that there are rules and stickies that need to be followed and read. I know it's not a completely fair analogy, but if I don't read a law and still get caught for it, I'm punished the same as someone who did regardless of my ignorance.

There's definitely a concern, I just don't feel your suggestion is the solution.

 

[Biofighter]

There's definitely a concern, I just don't feel your suggestion is the solution.

I'm not disputing that, not sure what the point of farming an extra post count off this?

 

Skilling and questing isn't as specific or straightforward as torso and firecape services. With torso and firecape services, you know what's being offered, and as such, proof is required to prove the ability to obtain what's listed.

Skilling and questing doesn't require the level of ability as a torso/firecape service.

Should we demand proof of someone being able to complete cook's assistant, or being able to train to 60 mining? I understand the concern, but it's not straightforward and easy to assess here.

 

[Biofighter]

Skilling and questing isn't as specific or straightforward as torso and firecape services. With torso and firecape services, you know what's being offered, and as such, proof is required to prove the ability to obtain what's listed.

Skilling and questing doesn't require the level of ability as a torso/firecape service.

Should we demand proof of someone being able to complete cook's assistant, or being able to train to 60 mining? I understand the concern, but it's not straightforward and easy to assess here.

Hey MEP2 Requires skill >.>
I understand the point that the suggestion per say isn't viable, but as shown from the preface; something needs to be done

 

[Jacubbb]

To be fair here, In the Questing/Skilling sub-forum there are (in general) 2 kinds of people who offer services. 1. Expensive, but very 'fast' and 'legit' every time. 2. The cheaper ones who are either trying to make a name for themselves or scam. So in theory If the number 2 person refuses to go first about 75% of the time they are scammers. But if you just go ahead and dedicate the money you don't have to worry about being scammed by number 1.

That being said I full understand what you mean by it being full of scammers. Ive made some friends here on sythe in my time here and a few of them have been scammed. and while I do like your idea I feel that at that point anyone who offers a skilling service will have to get a max cape due to just the varieties of all the task they get asked to do. and like someone else stated above people could just google pics or copy/paste and nobody would ever know.

Ultimately I feel like if you are just very cautious with everybody and don't take the cheap way out you will not be scammed.

 

[Offroad]

Sounds good

 

[uJesternWind]

I'm glad you've brought attention to this; however, I'm not sure your suggestion is the most viable option. A user can take a picture from another thread (somewhat hard to catch), take a picture online, or take a picture of their actual account but still intend to scam.

There currently is a sticky (linked below) that kind of hints that these kinds of things happen. What I'd support is a revamp of that sticky, with a more attention-grabbing title that warns users to transfer their valuables before trusting skillers with their bank.

Thread - http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-rune...l-training-services-guide-frustrated-mod.html

Although I agree with you completely, it should be noted that the same can also be done for the LOL boosting section as well - a picture can easily be taken online, or a picture from their main's rank could be taken still with the intention to scam. It's meant to be a deterrent as opposed to a failsafe scam prevention tactic. That being said however, I wouldn't support this idea as for LOL, going up to a certain rank requires a lot more skill than as in RS where it simply requires a lot of time.

 

[Superfluous]

i agree that it's a problem, much in the same way that account sales are a problem. but it's really hard to solve this problem - a lot of people are way too trusting with their accounts/valuables/etc. and will, for whatever reason, let extremely untrustworthy people get access to them. we can't prevent people from being stupid.

however, we can try to encourage them not to be. i think the easiest way to do this is with some sort of pop-up that appears when you first visit a forum... "warning, this is a high-risk forum. make sure you read these guides before continuing. read and understood? []yes []no" or something like that. could even force people to open the threads and not dismiss the popup until they're opened (if that's possible)

this would at least force people to acknowledge the risks and think twice about what they're doing. maybe this is something we can look into further with xenforo, but you'd have to ask upper admins about that.

 

[Brendan]

i think the easiest way to do this is with some sort of pop-up that appears when you first visit a forum... "warning, this is a high-risk forum. make sure you read these guides before continuing. read and understood? []yes []no" or something like that. could even force people to open the threads and not dismiss the popup until they're opened (if that's possible)

That's a pretty good idea. While I can slightly understand why stickies may not be read by newer members, due more or less to a lack of understanding, a Pop-Up that must at least have a single click means that if the individual doesn't read it, it's negligence and ignorance instead of simply not knowing the rules.

 

[Biofighter]

i agree that it's a problem, much in the same way that account sales are a problem. but it's really hard to solve this problem - a lot of people are way too trusting with their accounts/valuables/etc. and will, for whatever reason, let extremely untrustworthy people get access to them. we can't prevent people from being stupid.

however, we can try to encourage them not to be. i think the easiest way to do this is with some sort of pop-up that appears when you first visit a forum... "warning, this is a high-risk forum. make sure you read these guides before continuing. read and understood? []yes []no" or something like that. could even force people to open the threads and not dismiss the popup until they're opened (if that's possible)

this would at least force people to acknowledge the risks and think twice about what they're doing. maybe this is something we can look into further with xenforo, but you'd have to ask upper admins about that.

Warning:

This forum may involve other users on your account, be VERY wary with who you are dealing with. We HIGHLY recommend that you transfer all wealth to an alternate account whilst a service is undergone.


Clicking 'accept' shows that you understand this and will act with caution.

 

If we're going to add pop-ups, it wouldn't just be for the section in question, it would have to be for various market forums, if not all. I'd only use the pop-ups to redirect to stickies that belong to each individual forum upon first entry. Most stickies already cover the dangers of trading within their respective sections.

 

[Biofighter]

If we're going to add pop-ups, it wouldn't just be for the section in question, it would have to be for various market forums, if not all. I'd only use the pop-ups to redirect to stickies that belong to each individual forum upon first entry. Most stickies already cover the dangers of trading within their respective sections.

Alas full circle, stickies simply don't get read.

Report again using the correct template

Read the pardon stickies before attempting to pardon again

You need to involve pictures in your post

 

[mileseverett]

I've done almost all of my business in the RS3 skilling section and am by far the biggest 'active' service. I have completed several huge orders (billions) and dozens of smaller orders 100-400m. I've provided excellent service to highly trusted users. Before I opened my own service, I made almost all of my RSGP from working with Superfluous's service.

Unfortunately people just can't resist a 'bargain'. I offer high quality high price services. In the past when I would post on request threads with my prices, I would just get undercut by people who 95% of the time went on to scam the user. It is frustrating, and sadly it makes people hesitant to use my services, but it just comes down to people being unable to see a deal that's too good.

 

[Lilmj27]

Unfortunately people just can't resist a 'bargain'. I offer high quality high price services. In the past when I would post on request threads with my prices, I would just get undercut by people who 95% of the time went on to scam the user. It is frustrating, and sadly it makes people hesitant to use my services, but it just comes down to people being unable to see a deal that's too good.

This is also an issue. Typically the newcomers from RS will be younger, not always, but a lot. Hell, I was like 12 or something when I first came here. Because of this they have 2 factors

1. they don't have a lot of money, they likely have 0 money on Paypal or BTC they can use. So they're forced to pay via rsgp, which they likely don't have a lot of.

2. Like I said they're young, or even if they're not young, they may be a bit naiive to the forum or how it works. They see other people post their own thread so they do, then they get a couple offers. You get some people, who are asking to you to pay your entire bank for a fire cape, but then there's this really temping dude who's willing to do it for half.

A lot of newcomers who get scammed don't care about quality or trust until they get scammed.

A way that I'd personally think could circumvent this, is to simply have a sort of pop up that grabs your attention. They can just click the "I Understand" and move on, but if you can get them to read it they'll understand that it's a risk.

 

[Brendan]

If we're going to add pop-ups, it wouldn't just be for the section in question, it would have to be for various market forums, if not all. I'd only use the pop-ups to redirect to stickies that belong to each individual forum upon first entry. Most stickies already cover the dangers of trading within their respective sections.

Bio pretty much nails it.

Alas full circle, stickies simply don't get read.

Report again using the correct template

Read the pardon stickies before attempting to pardon again

You need to involve pictures in your post

I mean I understand that it's expected that they're just read, but I can remember my early days of Sythe and essentially there was just so many rules everywhere and I had no idea that I was meant to be reading them all. Something jumping out at the user really is what's required.