Israel versus Palestinians

[SuF]

Do you know the geographical location of Rafah? I take it you don't.

Yes. Its in fucking Egypt. Or at least the part of it that Eygpt bulldozed is in Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah,_Egypt

If you can find me one example of them smuggling anything other than weapons through the tunnels I will concede to your asinine claim.

http://www.military.com/video/opera...s-weapons-found-in-gaza-tunnel/3717192974001/

Are you ever going to post links to support a single claim of yours?

Why should I post link when everything I say is obviously true if you just watch the damn news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels#Use

Boom. I'm 100% right and you are 100% wrong.

I hope you know that I purposely asked that question because it's set up for failure?

An example of how your opposition is false.

Egypt. Egypt and Israel made peace in the late 70's with the return of the entire Sinai back into Egyptian hands. President Anwar Sadat was actually later assassinated by militant Muslims for this. It made Egypt the first Arab nation to recognize Israel and follow through with a formal peace treaty. Since then, there have been no military engagements between Egypt and Israel. In fact, Israel and Egypt work together, and share similar ideals in combating militant/radical Islam.

The same can be said about Jordan. In the mid 90's Israel and Jordan made peace. This resulted in slow but steady relationship building between the two nations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/26/us-mideast-economy-water-idUSKBN0LU23Z20150226

Currently, Jordan and Israel are actually working together on a pipeline that will link the Red Sea to the Dead Sea.

Where exactly is this supposed military action when peace has been achieved? Nowhere. Your claims are now rendered false, again. You haven't actually responded to my arguments. You are just strawmanning by changing them and calling them defunct.

Evidence? This isn't science. This is a debate. You form arguments with logic. Egypt made peace because the US basically bribed them with military aid.

Your evidence to back up your claims is what exactly?... I guess this is where I bring out the big guns. (flex)

https://youtu.be/3-GVYrZ7rSw "Hamas TV: Dead Gaza civilians privileged to have died this way"
https://youtu.be/ocZKe0hmmBI "Hamas spokesman: We are not afraid of Israel because we love death"
https://youtu.be/Nu-e5qWXx-k "Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital"
https://youtu.be/yoK9YL6D5RE - Leaflets warning Arabs in Gaza. (I thought it was indiscriminate?)
http://www.inquisitr.com/1342806/gaza-israel-warns-targets-by-sms-and-phone-to-leave-before-bombing/ --- mass text messages

So please explain to me how it's "indiscriminate" when civilians are constantly warned of impending strikes. Care to explain?

I already have. I will not play this game if you refuse to read.

Grasping for straws much are we?



Where did I make such a claim? Did I say the Iron Dome somehow only protects Jews? News flash: Israel has over a million Arab citizens. You fail to understand what i'm saying. Israel is not operating in urban environments, hiding behind its civilians in avoidance of its own casualties. Hamas however, does. It has already been reported that Hamas used schools, mosques and hospitals.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/un-dragged-conflict-israel-hamas-gaza

You made the claim when you defended Israel's use of human shields by saying that they defend their citizens.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/15/despite-war-israel-continues-vast-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza/
http://www.quora.com/Why-does-Israel-continue-to-send-tons-of-food-aid-to-Gaza-when-under-attack

Are you even mildly aware of the amount of aid Israel allows through its crossings into Gaza?

Are you also aware that Israel provides Gaza with electricity?

Ever notice how i'm the only one providing links here? All the while you're just rambling on... oh well, it helps those who are neutral on this topic better understand the level of unsupported bias towards Israel, and what the real facts are.

Yes they provide electricity because that way they can use it as a weapon of war by denying it when it is convenient.

 

[Spyder69]

Yes. Its in fucking Egypt. Or at least the part of it that Eygpt bulldozed is in Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah,_Egypt

Another one of those "i'll only use a definition that suits my argument" posts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah

Since you enjoy using Wiki pages...

"...is a Palestinian city and refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip."
"Rafah is the site of the Rafah Border Crossing, the main crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt."

Why should I post link when everything I say is obviously true if you just watch the damn news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels#Use

Boom. I'm 100% right and you are 100% wrong.

"Meanwhile, tunnels built under the Gaza-Egypt border haul in scarce goods at inflated prices, enriching smugglers and Hamas, which taxes the trade."

Did you even read the article you linked? You're again only citing half-truths. The tunnels are built by Hamas with the intent on attacking Israel, claiming that Gaza is somehow deprived of food and x, y an z is false.

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy...i-humanitarian-aid-continues-10-Jul-2014.aspx
http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/palestineopt
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-conflict-2014/.premium-1.608949

Don't pretend as if the intent behind the tunnels is to smuggle in goods when anyone with two eyes can see the hundreds-of-thousands of tons of aid being trucked into Gaza.

Evidence? This isn't science. This is a debate. You form arguments with logic. Egypt made peace because the US basically bribed them with military aid.

And... again... where are your links to back up your claims? Are you aware Israel acquired the entire Sinai as a result of the Six Day War (1967)? The peace process between Egypt and Israel resulted in the entire return of the Sinai.

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0326.html

The treaty was the result of months of grueling, often frustrating negotiations that finally were concluded early this morning when a final compromise was reached on the last remaining issue - a timetable for Israel to give up Sinai oil-fields. Under the treaty, Israel will withdraw its military forces and civilians from the Sinai Peninsula in stages over three years. Two-thirds of the area will be returned within nine months, after formal ratification documents are exchanged. The ratification process is expected to begin in about two weeks.

In return for Israel's withdrawal, Egypt has agreed to end the state of war and to establish peace. After the initial nine-month withdrawal is completed, Egypt and Israel will establish "normal and friendly relations" in many fields, including diplomatic, cultural and economic relations.

I already have. I will not play this game if you refuse to read.

Coming from the guy who never posts links to sources, other than a Wiki page... which is normally riddled with half-truths.

You made the claim when you defended Israel's use of human shields by saying that they defend their citizens.

And I asked you to provide evidence that they used human shields, yet for a second time, you've amounted to nothing but making claims without sources cited.

Yes they provide electricity because that way they can use it as a weapon of war by denying it when it is convenient.

Is that so?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3911229,00.html
http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/el...-hamas-wont-pay-the-electric-bill/2013/11/10/

It's actually quite well reported in Israel whenever Hamas doesn't pay their bills.

Even more hysterical is the fact that Hamas has even been the cause of their own distress.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1350814/ha...upply-with-rocket-and-israel-will-not-fix-it/

All thanks to their indiscriminate firing of rockets.

I guess i'll sit back and sip some coffee while you think of your next illogical claim backed by no sources...

 

[RufflestheKitten]

So, in summary Spyder, you belive that Israel is free of any blame and the systematic occupation of Palestine is justified. I mean, it's not like the arab world felt threatened by the west annexing their lands in 1948 and western support during the three wars increased the distrust. Israel is not just some innocent victim where they are battling supervillan Hamas for domination; every attempt at a two state plan has been shot down by Israel.

 

[Priscilla]

So, in summary Spyder, you belive that Israel is free of any blame and the systematic occupation of Palestine is justified. I mean, it's not like the arab world felt threatened by the west annexing their lands in 1948 and western support during the three wars increased the distrust. Israel is not just some innocent victim where they are battling supervillan Hamas for domination; every attempt at a two state plan has been shot down by Israel.

I don't think they are fully free of blame myself, however they have a few things going for them.

 

[Spyder69]

So, in summary Spyder, you belive that Israel is free of any blame

Blame for what exactly? That civilian casualties are a fact of war? Even the Israeli government acknowledges that. You act as if i'm painting this picture of benevolence.

and the systematic occupation of Palestine is justified.

Prior to the British Mandate I want you to show me where "Palestine" was. I want you to find me a SINGLE reference to any "Palestinian" ruler, war, capital or form of commerce.

Secondly, I want you to tell me where or not Jordan should return all their land seeing as it was also part of the Mandate. Because surely, if you weren't biased, you'd be accusing of Jordan "stealing" "Palestinian" land since Israel and Jordan are/were part of the same exact plot of land. Or do they not teach that in the School of Fakestine?

Are you also aware that the only land they acquired by means of force on a large scale was the 1967 war, which by the way, they returned the majority of. But please tell me in what world do you win a war against your enemies who were calling for your complete and utter annihilation, and then proceed to return the land back when they continue to call for your destruction?

I'm just going to try to feel your level of competency before I bury you with historic fact.

I mean, it's not like the arab world felt threatened by the west annexing their lands in 1948

Wrong. Since I always do the work of proving people wrong, I want you to do this yourself for me. Google ANY of the Arab nations surrounding Israel and I want you to then tell me the year they were established, and HOW they established their nations. THEN, I want you to tell me what the governing power was in the region prior to those states being established.

Once you've researched that you'll realize your asinine claim/statement holds no water.

and western support during the three wars increased the distrust.

Another indicator you're brainwashed.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h4319.html

The US passed the Neutrality Acts 1935 which essentially barred the US from sending military aid to Israel. Your claim of support during these wars is now rendered null.

Stop listening to the propaganda of the "Palestinians" and dig a little deeper, it's not that hard.

Israel is not just some innocent victim where they are battling supervillan Hamas for domination; every attempt at a two state plan has been shot down by Israel.

Really?

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious.

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Find me similar Israeli government doctrine. This is doctrine that Hamas and its leadership has never denounced, which is proven in the fact they still call for the complete annihilation of the Jews.

Really? Two-state solutions were shot down by Israel? Oh that's a funny one. If you actually read the very first page, I wouldn't have to post this again.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm

Here's the two-state solution that was put to a vote prior to the 1948 war (which the Arabs instigated, attempting to destroy Israel and the Jews)

Against: 13

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen

The Jews accepted the partition plan, the Arabs rejected it, and later attempted to destroy them, hence the 1948 war.

You'd also like to pretend that Israel is somehow not after peace. How about we look at the Egyptian x Israel peace process.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/isregypt.asp

Know what became of this? Peace. Zero war since that moment. Egypt became the first Arab nation to officially recognize Israel's existence, and peace has/had remained. Want to know a sad truth? Egyptian President Anwar al-Sadat was later assassinated by Islamic radicals for making peace with Israel and recognizing them.

Enjoy.

I don't think they are fully free of blame myself, however they have a few things going for them.

The number of technological advancements that have come out of Israel in the last few decades is staggering. Many of our modern inventions at some point or another were developed in Israel or further improved.

The range of achievements range from agriculture, medical, desalinization (efficiency), the list goes on and on and on. The same however, cannot be said for its neighbors.

There has been a long hatred for the Jews which is backed by nothing concrete. All the Arabs have is propaganda. All the while Israel makes technological breakthroughs in multiple fields, the Arabs and their children die at their own hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Q8K5TmivM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3OYjKZ2Cu8

Enjoy the two videos for a better idea of what i'm talking about.

Not saying this is the way it is in all Arab nations, some have caught up with the times such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, (somewhat, they don't call for Israel's destruction anymore and the new King seems to have his head on straight as he condemned Hamas) and Jordan (Jordan and Israel have good relations as they work to build a multi-million dollar pipeline to save their seas, together.

 

[already over]

"THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."

What you fail to realize is that Palestinians citzens are second range citizens. They are stripped of rights and are not treated the same as the Isrealis with check posts and blockades everywhere making their lives very difficult. There are a lot of videos and documentaries that show how Palestinians are treated in Israel, why dont you go watch those before you come out spouting bullshit.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...thhold-palestine-international-criminal-court
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-amid-accusations-of-racial-segregation.html

it will guarantee freedom of religion

Yes they support this claim by attacking one of the holiest monuments of Islam, the Al-aqsa mosque.


Since you enjoy posting links why dont you link where Isreal denie doctors trying to help palestine, also here are links for your enjoyment.
https://www.facebook.com/mzeyara/videos/608666042585754/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30054556

Are you also aware that Israel provides Gaza with electricity?

Are you also aware that they deny them water? And when they do allow them water they sell them for nearly twice the price as their nearby settlers.

Coming from the guy who never posts links to sources, other than a Wiki page... which is normally riddled with half-truths.

With links to credible sources .

Yes because your sources are very credible, hareetz.org, jewishpress.com, Ynet
lol get out

Blame for what exactly? That civilian casualties are a fact of war?

Now defend all the treaties Israel has broken and the use of white phosphorus.


I see the word muslim, muslim, muslim in all your posts. What is your point? You stated yourself many jews lived in "muslim" countries. Also Jewish deportations found place before the arab-Israeli wars. Are the muslims to blame for this too?

The number of technological advancements that have come out of Israel in the last few decades is staggering. Many of our modern inventions at some point or another were developed in Israel or further improved.

The range of achievements range from agriculture, medical, desalinization (efficiency), the list goes on and on and on. The same however, cannot be said for its neighbors.

There has been a long hatred for the Jews which is backed by nothing concrete. All the Arabs have is propaganda. All the while Israel makes technological breakthroughs in multiple fields, the Arabs and their children die at their own hands.

What are you claiming? Are arab nations lagging? Have you heard of OPEC, UAE?

http://www.davidsheen.com/racism/

I don't understand why it's so difficult to get it through your thick skull that "Palestine" is only a regional name. NEVER. At any point was there a unique "Palestinian" people, culture, government, nation-state, NOTHING.

There was an arab majority in the area, now there is not.

Really? Two-state solutions were shot down by Israel? Oh that's a funny one. If you actually read the very first page, I wouldn't have to post this again.

And how are the Palestinians the ones to blame for this as it was the arab nations and Iran who attacked. This is what you keep addresing all the time, why should the Palestinian people be held responsible for Iran and the arab nations attacks?

Really? Two-state solutions were shot down by Israel? Oh that's a funny one. If you actually read the very first page, I wouldn't have to post this again.

If you're saying Israel is the one promoting peace, you are wrong. They broke the Oslo treaty and this is what they have to say about the illegal settlements on the westbank.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-minister-this-land-is-ours-all-of-it-is-ours

 

[Spyder69]

What you fail to realize is that Palestinians citzens are second range citizens. They are stripped of rights and are not treated the same as the Isrealis with check posts and blockades everywhere making their lives very difficult. There are a lot of videos and documentaries that show how Palestinians are treated in Israel, why dont you go watch those before you come out spouting bullshit.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...thhold-palestine-international-criminal-court
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-amid-accusations-of-racial-segregation.html

Only in the WB, and please post sources to citizenship being stripped in Israel as well as the claim that they're somehow second-rate citizens. I want you to find me a SINGLE law in Israel that discriminates against non-Jews, just a single law, just one.

It's so obvious you don't actually care about facts it's almost hysterical, so, as a result, i'm going to bury your ass with real facts.

Yes they support this claim by attacking one of the holiest monuments of Islam, the Al-aqsa mosque.

Find me examples of this happening. If Israel wanted to destroy the Al-Aqsa, it would have been destroyed when the Jews retook Jerusalem during the 1967 war. Did that happen? No. The Israeli gov. has respected every religious site in Israel, not only their Jewish landmarks.

By the way, if these sites were so holy, they wouldn't have looked like shit during the 19th century

Here's an image for a reference. So much for your "holy" sites, right?

Since you enjoy posting links why dont you link where Isreal denie doctors trying to help palestine, also here are links for your enjoyment.
https://www.facebook.com/mzeyara/videos/608666042585754/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30054556

Really? More bias? You're somehow attempting to make the claim that Israel doesn't want to allow aid into Gaza, or that Israel themselves rejects the Arabs in Gaza medically, that's hysterical, and patently false.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ers-daughter-treated-in-Israeli-hospital.html

Are you aware that one of Hamas' leaders daughter was treated in Israel? Yeah, those bloodthirsty Israelis must really hate the Arabs in Gaza right?

Are you also aware that they deny them water? And when they do allow them water they sell them for nearly twice the price as their nearby settlers.

They deny them water? And your sources to back that claim up are what exactly?

Yes because your sources are very credible, hareetz.org, jewishpress.com, Ynet
lol get out

You must be another one of those people who looks at the first page and doesn't actually read. The only times I used Israeli news outlets was to make a point that IN ISRAEL it is well reported when Hamas doesn't pay their electrical bills. Hence, they have their electricity cut off to coerce them to pay. You do realize that financially speaking Hamas is in debt with Israel.

Now defend all the treaties Israel has broken and the use of white phosphorus.

The old "white phosphorus!" crybaby mantra, please.

So you aren't going to post links to the supposed treaties they broke? Another indicator you're an uneducated fool who doesn't know how to read.

Israel has made peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, who belligerents in the past wars. Guess what? Neither treaty has been broken since those treaties were formed. So what's your excuse for them not being broken? Since the Egypt-Israel treaty there has been growing economic exchange between the two nations.

Currently, Jordan and Israel are working on a pipeline together.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...id-to-plan-pipeline-for-gas-exports-to-jordan
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7744200c-336d-11e4-9607-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bm5tuIrp
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jordan-israel-agree-900m-red-sea-dead-sea-pipeline-1489773

Sooooo what exactly is your excuse for this one?

I see the word muslim, muslim, muslim in all your posts. What is your point? You stated yourself many jews lived in "muslim" countries. Also Jewish deportations found place before the arab-Israeli wars. Are the muslims to blame for this too?

And all I see is "i'm an idiot" throughout everything i've already pointed out, but you choose to continue blabbering on about, not to mention half of what you say is nonsensical.

Go through my previous posts, I already posted a UN report for when the Arabs expelled 900,000+ Jews for no good reason.

What are you claiming? Are arab nations lagging? Have you heard of OPEC, UAE?

UAE = United Arab Emirates
OPEC = "look at how much petrol we can export"

Explain to me how that equates to technological advances? lol

http://www.davidsheen.com/racism/

Good lord. What a waste of my time you are.

Guess who this is? An Arab who won Miss Israel

Guess who this is? A black woman who won Miss Israel.

Tell me again about "racism" in Israel.

There was an arab majority in the area, now there is not.

And your point? Jews are the minority in the entire Middle East.

And how are the Palestinians the ones to blame for this as it was the arab nations and Iran who attacked. This is what you keep addresing all the time, why should the Palestinian people be held responsible for Iran and the arab nations attacks?

Sorry, but where exactly am I propagating that they are? Quote me at least.

If you're saying Israel is the one promoting peace, you are wrong. They broke the Oslo treaty and this is what they have to say about the illegal settlements on the westbank.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-minister-this-land-is-ours-all-of-it-is-ours

What you fail to realize

This is how I can easily gauge your level of comprehension on this topic.

Where you attempt to paint this picture of discrimination is where you utterly fail, and where it's obvious you're oblivious to real truths, while propagating half-truths.

the West Bank will

Last link you posted about Arabs having to use their own buses. You do realize that an overwhelming majority of ALL contention happens in the WB. Do you know why? Because the WB has drastically different laws than "mainland Israel." But i'm sure you didn't even know that, so allow for me to educate you.

In the WB the majority of which are radical Jews who A) Hate Israel and B) Hate Arabs.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/...-structes-in-illegal-West-Bank-outpost-352229

Apparently you're ignorantly oblivious to the fact that the IDF actually destroys "outposts" that are built by radical Jews in the WB. Israel isn't building on "illegal" land, but please find me actual evidence to support that, because so far, you've done nothing but provide sources to something that is already known, and which is actually handled by the IDF without bias. And yes, this is even reported in Israel.

Moving on, apparently you don't realize there are three areas in the WB. Area A, B and C. Area A is comprised of "Palestinians" and "Palestinians" ONLY, it is also controlled by the PA's own police force. Area B is a joint operation between the IDF and PA. Area C is under complete IDF military rule. The rules/laws in the WB are entirely different from Israel, but find me sources that say otherwise.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpo...tion of establishment of state of israel.aspx

Here's their Declaration of Independence.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

Care to find me something of equivalence in their Arab neighbors?

Try again.

 

[tMoon]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but one thing.

It isn't really a "versus" scenario. It's more of a big guy with a big gun and a little kid with a rock. Israel is trampling over Palestine, there isn't some match.


As for the OP:
The nation-state system is an incredibly new political system. It is a few hundred years old, at best. If a group of people are Palestinian, they are a Palestinian nation (a nation is practically a large group of people.)

As for laws, there is such a thing as indirect institutional discrimination. Laws do not have to be on the books for such things as apartheid to take place. That and there would have been such a law prohibiting Jews and Palestinians to ride on busses together, but the PM recently dropped it.

Ottoman Turkish Empire was huge and filled with different nations. Also, don't act as if Israel got that land after WWI. The country didn't "exist" until the UN created it and the land was grabbed in the 3 days war and continually expanded upon (deemed illegal by practically every country, but the U.S. and those whom have been told to vote as the U.S. does.)

 

[Spyder69]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but one thing.

It isn't really a "versus" scenario. It's more of a big guy with a big gun and a little kid with a rock. Israel is trampling over Palestine, there isn't some match.

You do realize "Palestinians" translates into "Arabs." Maybe I should have named the thread "Arab Nations versus Israel" since the vision of the PLO is the same as those who decades ago attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

As for the OP:
The nation-state system is an incredibly new political system. It is a few hundred years old, at best. If a group of people are Palestinian, they are a Palestinian nation (a nation is practically a large group of people.)

Not really, and i've heard this excuse before. Nation-state implies specificity in relations to a place of being; an empire, a kingdom, a nation, a city-state, one in the same thing, the exact wordage means little to nothing when everyone knows what we're talking about. The "what we're talking about" being a literal entity that operated under the title of "Palestine," which none, at any point in the history of this planet, has ever existed.

As for laws, there is such a thing as indirect institutional discrimination. Laws do not have to be on the books for such things as apartheid to take place. That and there would have been such a law prohibiting Jews and Palestinians to ride on busses together, but the PM recently dropped it.

You should be specific. Arabs are on the Supreme Court, in the Knesset, serve as commanders in the IDF, school teachers to both Arab and Jewish students, the list goes on. Attempting to hide behind this facade of "indirect" discrimination is as false as the other claims made.

Also, if you really did read this thread, you would have noticed that in relation to prohibiting Jews/Palestinians for certain buses only pertains who the WB, not "mainland" Israel where it is not subject to IDF military law. There's a stark difference between the two, something of which everyone seems to conveniently ignore. E: Also something you and everyone forgets, the PA agreed to the terms of the WB, land wise and military law wise, so don't pretend as if this is the "poor poor Arabs being discriminated against by the big bad Israel!" because it's not. The majority of conflict you hear, "the Jews are tearing up olive trees!" the same radical Jews that actually throw stones at Israeli diplomats. Do I hear "bias" and "half-truths"? Yes, yes I do.

Ottoman Turkish Empire was huge and filled with different nations. Also, don't act as if Israel got that land after WWI. The country didn't "exist" until the UN created it and the land was grabbed in the 3 days war and continually expanded upon (deemed illegal by practically every country, but the U.S. and those whom have been told to vote as the U.S. does.)

Oh really? Please, do tell me about how different nations existed under a controlling empire. Simple question to put that notion to rest though, what currency was used in the Levant prior to the British Mandate? Or better yet, that entire region that was under their control.

Land was grabbed? Again, you aren't even reading the thread, and i've already refuted this a few times, but I suppose I can simply show you why what you believe is quite literally historically false, but please attempt to disprove historic fact.

But before I do post these facts, how about we address some pretty simple questions.

1. Who controlled the land prior to the British Mandate?
-Ottoman's
2. Was there any nation there prior?
-No, and if there was, who was the leader? What was the capital? What currency did they use? (Ottoman) list goes on, you get the picture.
3. What makes the Arab nations that became of WWI/British Mandate any more "legitimate" than Israel? IE: Jordan (specifically)

Feel free to answer the above questions that, again, put this stance on this topic to rest.

How about we simply discuss the topic of Jordan, shall we? Seeing as you must be for "justice" without bias, right? If that were true, we could make the same illogical argument for Jordan. Why? Because Jordan was born as a result of the dissolution of Ottoman Empire and British Mandate. So, shall we make the same false accusation that Jordan is illegitimate also? Should Jordan give their land back to the Fakestinians, oh sorry I meant "Palestinians," as well? How interesting is it that the Arabs in Jordan overnight became Jordanians, and the Arabs in modern-day Israel/WB/Gaza/refugees (that are a product of Arab propaganda against Israel during the 1948 and 1967 wars) overnight became "Palestinians."

As for the last claim that Israel "land grabbed." Really? Apparently you're also clueless as to how Israel got the land in the first place.

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/08e38a718201458b052565700072b358?OpenDocument

"Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews. - "

"The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought."

Following the return of the Jews, they began to purchase land from Arabs. This actually became so much of a problem that the UN saw it necessary to bar Jews from purchasing land, because the Arabs were so willing mind you, as it interfered with the two-state solution.

For some extra history on this topic, enjoy the read, since you must have missed it on page 2.

http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/littman_unhrc_wupj_17jul03.pdf

"This 1947 Partition Plan was categorically refused by all the Arab League States"

"On 24 November 1947, when addressing the Political Committee of the UN General
Assembly, Egyptian delegate Heykal Pasha warned about the Partition Plan for Palestine: “The
United Nations (...) should not lose sight of the fact that the proposed solution might endanger a
million Jews living in the Muslim countries. (...) If the United Nations decides to partition Palestine,
it might be responsible for very grave disorders and for the massacre of a large number of Jews (...)
if a Jewish state were established, nobody could prevent disorders. Riots would spread through all
the Arab states and might lead to a war between the two races.”

"Already in Iraq (1936, and especially the Baghdad farhud of 1941), Syria (1944, 1945), Egypt
and Libya (1945), and Aden (1947), murderous attacks had killed and wounded thousands. All these
events occurred before Israel’s independence. Here is a description from the official first-hand report
in 1945 by Tripoli’s Jewish community president Zachino Habib on what happened to Libyan Jews
in Tripoli, Zanzur, Zawiya, Casabat, Zitlin on 4-5 Nov. 1945: “The Arabs attacked Jews in obedience
to mysterious orders. Their outburst of bestial violence had no plausible motive. For fifty hours they
hunted men down, attacked houses and shops, killed men, women, old and young, horribly tortured
and dismembered Jews isolated in the interior.... In order to carry out the slaughter, the attackers
used various weapons: knives, daggers, sticks, clubs, iron bars, revolvers, and even hand grenades.”

"9. In 1945 about 140,000 Jews lived in Iraq; 60,000 in Yemen and Aden; 35,000 in Syria; 5,000
in Lebanon; 90,000 in Egypt; 40,000 in Libya; 150,000 in Algeria; 120,000 in Tunisia; 300,000 in
Morocco, including Tangiers – a total of roughly 940,000 (and approximately 200,000 more in
Iran and Turkey). Of these indigenous communities, less than 50,000 Jews remain today – and in
the Arab world their number is barely 5,000, one-half of one percent of the overall total at the end
of the Second World War. "

"11. About half of Israel's 5.2 million Jews — from a population of about 6.5 million, of whom
roughly 20% are Arab, Druze, and Bedouin Israelis — is composed of these forgotten refugees and
their descendants, who received no humanitarian aid from the United Nations and did not ask for it. It
was Israel alone, with the help of Jewish communities just emerging from the Shoah, which achieved
their humanitarian survival and integration into a nascent society. "

And here's the kicker

"12. No parallel political commitment was made for the integration of the less numerous
Arab refugees from Palestine (numbering about 550,000 in 1949, although an inexact figure of
750,000 and above is often claimed – rising to 4 or even 6 million today in the world’s media). The
Arab League countries cover 15 million km2 — about 10% of the world's land surface — and many
States possess immense oil and gas reserves, yet little was done to alleviate the plight of their Arab
brethren"

Oh, but back to the "land grabbing" propaganda. Lets see... during 1967 Israel captured the entire Sinai from Egypt, which they actually then returned all of it for peace, and since then there has been peace. Israel gave up the Gaza strip for peace, in return they actually got rockets fired at them continually, within striking distance of some of their major cities. We have the Golan Heights which was captured from Syria (a country that attempted to destroy Israel) and remains under their military control.

So lets point out a very important fact here. During these past wars, specifically the 1967 war, Israel could have virtually taken over these fledgling nations ENTIRELY, yet they chose not to, and opted for strategic land acquisition instead. Did they "take back" all of Jordan? No. Did they steamroll all of Egypt after the Egyptian military literally gave up? No. Did they do what you would like to pretend they did to any other nation? No. So how exactly are you going to support your stance when historically, your claim is 100% false.

The Arabs had the chance for a two-state solution, side by side with the Jews, and they voted no. They willingly took part of the UN vote and opted for war instead. I'll post the concluding vote in case you chose not to read page 3, my above post.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm

Against: 13

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen

I'll gladly continue this with even more historic evidences, but i've already posted and reposted the majority of this in past pages which address the same exact topics brought up time and time again that are nothing but pure propaganda.

E: Just for shits and giggles on the discrimination part; you did see my above post right? It's quite ironic how anyone makes these supposed claims of "discrimination" when Israel has such a diverse culture that Arabs and black women have been Miss Israel. It's quite comical actually.

 

[tMoon]

@Spyder, I don't know if it's purposeful, but you seem to talk with an elitist attitude, talking down on both everyone that disagrees with you and scoffing at Palestinians themselves. You are not better than anybody else.

You do realize "Palestinians" translates into "Arabs." Maybe I should have named the thread "Arab Nations versus Israel" since the vision of the PLO is the same as those who decades ago attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

There is a big difference between referring to Palestinian and people that currently reside in Palestine and referring to all the Arab nations.

I'm not going to argue that Israel hasn't faced it's challenges - specifically when it was first created - but my point still stands that it's hardly a "fight" between Israel and Palestine. Palestine is at the mercy of Israel. For example, all the funds Palestine gets from the U.S. has to be approved by Israel. It is not a fight.

Not really, and i've heard this excuse before. Nation-state implies specificity in relations to a place of being; an empire, a kingdom, a nation, a city-state, one in the same thing, the exact wordage means little to nothing when everyone knows what we're talking about. The "what we're talking about" being a literal entity that operated under the title of "Palestine," which none, at any point in the history of this planet, has ever existed.

Well, that's because that is the definition in the political science community. Every political science class in which we discussed nations/states/nation states, that is how they are referred to.

Well, under the exact verbiage existed until recently. I could say the same about many modern states. Germans didn't actually exist, they have no claim to the land (they were Prussian/germanic tribes that were united into modern day Germany.)

You should be specific. Arabs are on the Supreme Court, in the Knesset, serve as commanders in the IDF, school teachers to both Arab and Jewish students, the list goes on. Attempting to hide behind this facade of "indirect" discrimination is as false as the other claims made.

I am not incredibly knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Israel government/customs/all that jazz. You act as if the two cannot co-exist. Many would argue there has been (and continues to be) indirect institutional discrimination directed towards African Americans and the President is black. Also, while I may not be aware of exact situations, it is plenty possible there are higher Arab teacher rates in poor neighborhoods (as an example.)

Also, if you really did read this thread, you would have noticed that in relation to prohibiting Jews/Palestinians for certain buses only pertains who the WB, not "mainland" Israel where it is not subject to IDF military law. There's a stark difference between the two, something of which everyone seems to conveniently ignore. E: Also something you and everyone forgets, the PA agreed to the terms of the WB, land wise and military law wise, so don't pretend as if this is the "poor poor Arabs being discriminated against by the big bad Israel!" because it's not. The majority of conflict you hear, "the Jews are tearing up olive trees!" the same radical Jews that actually throw stones at Israeli diplomats. Do I hear "bias" and "half-truths"? Yes, yes I do.

I stated I didn't read the thread. I'm not going to spend an exorbitant amount of time going through a thread in order to respond to some post. Yes, the WB which is heavily controlled and has settlements created by Israel. Acting as if segregation is really all that different because you crossed a fence.

Hmmm, agreeing wholeheartedly and via means of coercion are different things. I would say there wasn't much of a choice but to agree and if they didn't, it would probably happen anyway. You state they agreed to the terms, I don't know what the terms are, but highly doubt they included things such as the Israeli settlements.

Oh really? Please, do tell me about how different nations existed under a controlling empire. Simple question to put that notion to rest though, what currency was used in the Levant prior to the British Mandate? Or better yet, that entire region that was under their control.

Group of people = nation (very basic definition)
Multiple distinct groups of people = multiple nations

Need a recent example? Sudan and South Sudan. Borders do not automatically define the nations within a country. Look at Africa, the borders were drawn by Europeans with the nations of the land not taken into account.

You're using an incredibly basic definition of a nation. It's like in grade school when you're taught nationalism is pride in one's government, that is wrong from a political scientist standpoint. Nationalism is a pride in one's people, patriotism is pride in one's government.

Land was grabbed? Again, you aren't even reading the thread, and i've already refuted this a few times, but I suppose I can simply show you why what you believe is quite literally historically false, but please attempt to disprove historic fact.

Land was grabbed both in past wars and if we're talking more modern, the current settlements in the West Bank. Building settlements on land that is not yours is taking land.

I don't know what historic fact you're talking about. Israel did take land (I'll even go through a .gov and ignore Wikipedia)

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
"Israel gained some territory formerly granted to Palestinian Arabs under the United Nations resolution in 1947. Egypt and Jordan retained control over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank respectively."

As for 1967:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/arab-israeli-war-1967
"Though alarmed by Israeli decisions to absorb East Jerusalem and establish Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, U.S. officials believed that the Arabs remained too inflexible to justify pressing Israel to withdraw."

You apparently didn't read my reply because I stated I didn't.

But before I do post these facts, how about we address some pretty simple questions.

1. Who controlled the land prior to the British Mandate?
-Ottoman's

No, you're wrong. The Ottoman empire fell in WWI and Israel was created after WWII. The British Mandated the land as Palestine before it was mandated to the Israelis.

2. Was there any nation there prior?
-No, and if there was, who was the leader? What was the capital? What currency did they use? (Ottoman) list goes on, you get the picture.

Well, you're using the definition of a nation wrong.

3. What makes the Arab nations that became of WWI/British Mandate any more "legitimate" than Israel? IE: Jordan (specifically)

I'm not arguing Israel is illegitimate?..

Feel free to answer the above questions that, again, put this stance on this topic to rest.

Answered

How about we simply discuss the topic of Jordan, shall we? Seeing as you must be for "justice" without bias, right? If that were true, we could make the same illogical argument for Jordan. Why? Because Jordan was born as a result of the dissolution of Ottoman Empire and British Mandate. So, shall we make the same false accusation that Jordan is illegitimate also? Should Jordan give their land back to the Fakestinians, oh sorry I meant "Palestinians," as well? How interesting is it that the Arabs in Jordan overnight became Jordanians, and the Arabs in modern-day Israel/WB/Gaza/refugees (that are a product of Arab propaganda against Israel during the 1948 and 1967 wars) overnight became "Palestinians."

Where are you getting this whole idea that I made the implication that Israel is an illegitimate state? Israel is very much a legitimate state.

Oh, and Palestinian people didn't just appear in 1948.

As for the last claim that Israel "land grabbed." Really? Apparently you're also clueless as to how Israel got the land in the first place.

I'm aware of how Israel was allotted their land. I am also aware of how Israel has expanded "ever-so-slightly."

Following the return of the Jews, they began to purchase land from Arabs. This actually became so much of a problem that the UN saw it necessary to bar Jews from purchasing land, because the Arabs were so willing mind you, as it interfered with the two-state solution.
For some extra history on this topic, enjoy the read, since you must have missed it on page 2.

http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/littman_unhrc_wupj_17jul03.pdf

Interesting, but it still doesn't excuse the land that wasn't purchased. The entire two-state solution is a shit show. Also, if you read my post you'd realize (I state this yet again) I didn't read the thread.

Oh, but back to the "land grabbing" propaganda. Lets see... during 1967 Israel captured the entire Sinai from Egypt, which they actually then returned all of it for peace, and since then there has been peace. Israel gave up the Gaza strip for peace, in return they actually got rockets fired at them continually, within striking distance of some of their major cities. We have the Golan Heights which was captured from Syria (a country that attempted to destroy Israel) and remains under their military control.

Again, like throwing a stone. Those rocket attacks are incredibly weak and are practically no threat to Israel due to their Iron Dome. Israel is not some innocent party, both sides have fueled hate at another. I can see why Hamas and other militants would shoot rockets at Israel, they have nothing.

So lets point out a very important fact here. During these past wars, specifically the 1967 war, Israel could have virtually taken over these fledgling nations ENTIRELY, yet they chose not to, and opted for strategic land acquisition instead.

The 1967 war was not some isolated conflict where only Israel and Arab countries exist. They likely chose not to because they'd be facing some - even more - serious international problems. Not counting if the Arab countries were being taken over the Soviet Union would of likely stepped in an attempt to stop the take over. Even if a state has the power to invade/completely take over another state, there are plenty of other actors in play.

Did they "take back" all of Jordan? No. Did they steamroll all of Egypt after the Egyptian military literally gave up? No. Did they do what you would like to pretend they did to any other nation? No. So how exactly are you going to support your stance when historically, your claim is 100% false.

See above and I would hardly call my claims false.

The Arabs had the chance for a two-state solution, side by side with the Jews, and they voted no. They willingly took part of the UN vote and opted for war instead. I'll post the concluding vote in case you chose not to read page 3, my above post.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm

Israel is not squeaky clean in support for a two-state solution. What was it a few months ago when the PM stated he would never support a two-state solution (he back tracked of course, but he needed support from the far right to win the election.)

The lack of Arab support for the two state solution likely originated from the idea that they were being swindled and the idea that Israel was getting the better end of the deal.

I'll gladly continue this with even more historic evidences, but i've already posted and reposted the majority of this in past pages which address the same exact topics brought up time and time again that are nothing but pure propaganda.

Hardly propaganda and Western Media heavily favors Israel.

E: Just for shits and giggles on the discrimination part; you did see my above post right? It's quite ironic how anyone makes these supposed claims of "discrimination" when Israel has such a diverse culture that Arabs and black women have been Miss Israel. It's quite comical actually.

No, I didn't look at it.

It's great how you think the winning of a contest eradicates discrimination. Damn, there's been a black Miss America? Wow! I bet black people have no problems with discrimination at all!

 

[Spyder69]

@Spyder, I don't know if it's purposeful, but you seem to talk with an elitist attitude, talking down on both everyone that disagrees with you and scoffing at Palestinians themselves. You are not better than anybody else.

Maybe because you and everyone else uses the same regurgitated points of view that aren't supported by historic fact.

There is a big difference between referring to Palestinian and people that currently reside in Palestine and referring to all the Arab nations.

You're right, there is a big difference. The difference being that calling someone a "Palestinians" is entirely false. At no point in the history of this planet has anyone titled themselves a "Palestinian." Only in the last couple decades has that occurred. The name "Palestine" itself is foreign to the region.

I'm not going to argue that Israel hasn't faced it's challenges - specifically when it was first created - but my point still stands that it's hardly a "fight" between Israel and Palestine. Palestine is at the mercy of Israel. For example, all the funds Palestine gets from the U.S. has to be approved by Israel. It is not a fight.

You're implying that when I say "versus" I mean purely militarily. This has nothing to do with who would "win." The topic addresses those who would like to claim that land was stolen and that the Arabs who overnight became "Palestinians" somehow have a more legitimate land claim for a litany of false reasons.

Well, that's because that is the definition in the political science community. Every political science class in which we discussed nations/states/nation states, that is how they are referred to.

You do realize you didn't even define it.

Well, under the exact verbiage existed until recently. I could say the same about many modern states. Germans didn't actually exist, they have no claim to the land (they were Prussian/germanic tribes that were united into modern day Germany.)

Yet that's in relation to a literal peoples with a unique identity. The title of "Palestine" or "Palestinian" should carry some form of uniqueness that any historian can identify with historic evidences. That can't be done for the case of the Fakestinians, not even God himself could provide the evidence. Know why? Because none exists.

I am not incredibly knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Israel government/customs/all that jazz. You act as if the two cannot co-exist. Many would argue there has been (and continues to be) indirect institutional discrimination directed towards African Americans and the President is black. Also, while I may not be aware of exact situations, it is plenty possible there are higher Arab teacher rates in poor neighborhoods (as an example.)

I've never said anywhere in this thread a two-state solution couldn't/wouldn't work. The Jews had accepted the partition plan, the Arabs rejected it.

As for "discrimination." Really? You do realize many of the challenges the US experiences can be identified in Israel as well? However, with even more propaganda to go along with it. Ex: Anti-Israel proponents will cry and complain that "Israel is racist against Ethiopian Jews!" the only reason they make the claim is because a large percentage of those incarcerated in Israel are blacks. Is it anywhere true that the reason is racism? No. Like America with our Mexican illegal immigration issue, Israel has the same issue with illegal immigration, but to claim they're racists is false. Anyone can go to Israel and find plenty of blacks that are doing entirely fine as civilians. Not to mention the many blacks in the IDF that are again, completely fine.

I stated I didn't read the thread. I'm not going to spend an exorbitant amount of time going through a thread in order to respond to some post. Yes, the WB which is heavily controlled and has settlements created by Israel. Acting as if segregation is really all that different because you crossed a fence.

Actually it is drastically different in the WB compared to "mainland" Israel. There is only debate because people, virtually all of anti-Israel journalism, fails to realize that Area A is purely under the control of the PA, Area B is a joint operation (although the IDF retains seniority in some instances involving arrests and such and the PA must wait for the IDF) and Area C remained under IDF military control. It's an under-reported fact that it's not "Israel" causing distress in the WB, it's a mixture of the small niche extremist Jews (those who throw stones at Israeli and foreign diplomats) and Arabs. Hence, this is where you find the majority of child arrests.

Hmmm, agreeing wholeheartedly and via means of coercion are different things. I would say there wasn't much of a choice but to agree and if they didn't, it would probably happen anyway. You state they agreed to the terms, I don't know what the terms are, but highly doubt they included things such as the Israeli settlements.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/transfer_powers.asp

It's easier to find information on it if you search "Taba Agreement." The purpose of this was obviously to restore peace, however, peace is a two-way street. Just like Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan, it was expected of those in the WB/Gaza Strip as well, however, only the PA in the WB has been mildly cooperative, and obviously less so with Hamas in Gaza.

The Israeli government isn't building inside Area A, you can even find posts outside of Area A warning Israeli civilians not to enter these areas as it is punishable under Israeli law. Whenever I see a news report that says "Israel building settlements in WB!!" And everyone crying and complaining, I always ask one simple question, in what area are they building? And that's the most crucial bit of information that is ALWAYS left out. If Israel were building in Area A, then even Israeli supporters would be against that, but as it stands, there's zero proof of Israel violating the Oslo Accords to the extent that they are now building in areas they shouldn't.

I look at is as Israel building in Jerusalem. Can Israel build in Jerusalem? Yes, yes they can. Does the media portray it as if they can't? Indeed they do, even though their opposition isn't based in anything factual.

Group of people = nation (very basic definition)
Multiple distinct groups of people = multiple nations

Need a recent example? Sudan and South Sudan. Borders do not automatically define the nations within a country. Look at Africa, the borders were drawn by Europeans with the nations of the land not taken into account.

You're using an incredibly basic definition of a nation. It's like in grade school when you're taught nationalism is pride in one's government, that is wrong from a political scientist standpoint. Nationalism is a pride on one's people, patriotism is pride in one's government.

Because in its application to this situation, it's beyond basic. It implies sovereignty, something of which hasn't been for centuries in this region.

Land was grabbed both in past wars and if we're talking more modern, the current settlements in the West Bank. Building settlements on land that is not yours is taking land.

I don't know what historic fact you're talking about. Israel did take land (I'll even go through a .gov and ignore Wikipedia)

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
"Israel gained some territory formerly granted to Palestinian Arabs under the United Nations resolution in 1947. Egypt and Jordan retained control over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank respectively."

As for 1967:
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/arab-israeli-war-1967
"Though alarmed by Israeli decisions to absorb East Jerusalem and establish Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, U.S. officials believed that the Arabs remained too inflexible to justify pressing Israel to withdraw."

Are you really implying that I don't know this?... the land Israel acquired through (mostly) the Six Day War was purely strategic. Golan Heights, Sinai Peninsula, WB, etc. There was no sovereign nation there that operated under the identity of "Palestine" either. The Jews proclaimed independence in 1948 while the Arabs in what was to be the proposed partition quarreled as well as the Arab nations surrounding them.

I'm not opposed to a two-state solution, and neither are the Jews. The difference is that many of the Arabs want an Arab state without the existence of the Jewish state, that is the big difference and why Israel has not, and will not, give up more land for peace.

Here's a scenario. Say tomorrow Israel decides to go back to the pre-1967 cease-fire lines. What do you think would happen? It would be an utter catastrophe because it would bring those who wish destruction upon Israel, right to their very doorstep, more so than Hamas already is in Gaza.

No, you're wrong. The Ottoman empire fell in WWI and Israel was created after WWII. The British Mandated the land as Palestine before it was mandated to the Israelis.

I'm not saying it didn't... you're getting mixed up in technicalities that aren't important. The mandate only came a few years after WWI, but it was already accepted that the British would be given formal rule over the Levant/Palestine as they were the ones who spearheaded the military campaign there. Which is the reason why the Arabs cooperated with the British in the first place for their own independence, free from the Ottoman Empire.

Don't confuse the "British Mandate for Palestine" as a mandate for a specific peoples or nation. Palestine is a regional name, and that's all it ever has been. Mostly foreign imperialistic empires referred to it as Palestine for over two millennia, hence, the British Mandate would adopt the regional name.

This is also why following the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and their currency the British implemented a regional currency known as the "Palestinian Pound," replacing the Ottoman Lira. The currency was regional, which is also why we find "Palestinian" passports and banks. All of which were under British rule, and which is also why once the British Mandate ended and Israel established, the currency was dissolved along with the British office overseeing it. Banks were then renamed and passports useless. Not even Gaza or the PA use the currency.

Oh, and Palestinian people didn't just appear in 1948.

Then explain how the Arabs living under the British Mandate became Jordanians overnight while the others mystically remained "Palestinians."

The name is regional, period.

I'm aware of how Israel was allotted their land. I am also aware of how Israel has expanded "ever-so-slightly."

Due to their neighbors attempting to destroy them, yes. In what world do you remain within boundaries that put your entire people at risk while your neighbors since your inception have been chanting "death to Israel"? The land acquired was strategic.

Q. Do you know why Israel pushed so far into the Sinai to capture it in its entirety? But to only stop at a specific point?

You answering the above question will answer the other questions I could propose about other areas they captured, and why they stopped.

Interesting, but it still doesn't excuse the land that wasn't purchased. The entire two-state solution is a shit show. Also, if you read my post you'd realize (I state this yet again) I didn't read the thread.

I know this now, so i'll gladly restate things for your benefit.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/5E625DDD9ABF1B52852571E300653B31

This is taken from a book written by Cleon Skousen where he interviewed an Arab taxi driver.

pp. 12-13
"What are the Jews doing with all the property that was abandoned by you Israeli Arabs after you left and came over to Jordan?"
"The Jews are using it."
"Have they offered to pay for it?"
"We heard that they did but none of us have ever received anything."
(I subsequently learned that since no permanent peace agreement could be worked out with the Arabs, the UN Conciliation Commission for Palestine put a value of $336 million on the former Arab holdings in Israel and asked the Israeli government to pay the amount.7 The Israeli government accepted the principle of giving the Arabs compensation but nothing else came of it because the Arab nations began quarreling among themselves as to just what the compensation should be and they never could agree on a specific amount. In fact, they later refused to consider any settlement short of complete restoration of all properties to the original owners themselves. The Israeli said this would be possible only when the Arab nations agreed to officially recognize Israel as a legal entity and sign a permanent peace treat. The Arabs refused to do this so the compensation issue was stalemated.8)

The UN Conciliation Commission for Palestine acted something of a mediator.

Again, like throwing a stone. Those rocket attacks are incredibly weak and are practically no threat to Israel due to their Iron Dome. Israel is not some innocent party, both sides have fueled hate at another. I can see why Hamas and other militants would shoot rockets at Israel, they have nothing.

Right, "no threat" because of the Iron Dome. And you're starting to toss statements that are actually quite silly.

Saying "no one is innocent" is a pretty broad statement. I could start posting things such as the amount of aid allowed through their border crossings, the number of Gazan's that are given free treatment in Israeli hospitals, the amount of (practically) free electricity they give them (since Hamas sometimes refuses to pay their bills), for those who remained in Israel during the 1967 war instead of giving in to the fear-mongering of the Egyptians/Arabs and retained their rights/citizenship. The list actually goes on and on and on.

We can toy with the thought that no one is innocent because civilians get caught in the crossfire of military engagements, but in terms of who's more civil, the answer is obvious.

Hamas' charter calls for the complete and utter annihilation of Israel and the Jews. The Israeli declaration calls for the unity and peace of the Arabs within their borders.

The 1967 war was not some isolated conflict where only Israel and Arab countries exist. They likely chose not to because they'd be facing some - even more - serious international problems. Not counting if the Arab countries were being taken over the Soviet Union would of likely stepped in an attempt to stop the take over. Even if a state has the power to invade/completely take over another state, there are plenty of other actors in play.

You didn't get what I was saying. Israel's actions do not mirror that of their aggressors. If Israel lost any of their three major wars, it would have been 100% destroyed at the hands of the Arabs.



See above and I would hardly call my claims false.

Israel is not squeaky clean in support for a two-state solution. What was it a few months ago when the PM stated he would never support a two-state solution (he back tracked of course, but he needed support from the far right to win the election.)

Half-truth. What he said was there is no chance of a two-state solution until they recognize the state of Israel, he has always said that, and i'm surprised you didn't bother to look into it and realize that yourself. The two-state solution has always been on the table, but there are obvious contingencies that are quite simple.

Unless you're in favor of a two-state solution that puts terrorists within walking distance of certain major Israeli cities?

The lack of Arab support for the two state solution likely originated from the idea that they were being swindled and the idea that Israel was getting the better end of the deal.

Not really. Read my above post with quotes from a UN report. Are you aware that the Arab League has 20+ states? Israel is a tiny ass country, hardly a threat in terms of land acquisition to a much larger Arab entity if that's what you're getting at.

The opposition is as feeble minded as the propaganda that you'd find on Twitter, it's pure racism. Why do you think 900,000+ Jews were expelled from Arab lands which is reported on in the above UN report?...

Hardly propaganda and Western Media heavily favors Israel.

Fox, that's about it. I guess you haven't seen the NY Times and how biased they are in their reporting against Israel.

YT search" Pallywood"

It's great how you think the winning of a contest eradicates discrimination. Damn, there's been a black Miss America? Wow! I bet black people have no problems with discrimination at all!

Still waiting for examples of discrimination in Israel. Like I said, Arabs/non-Jews hold many positions in Israeli society. If claims of "discrimination" were true my job of providing evidences to counter that would be much more difficult.

I could post more of this btw

PS. Shorter responses would be appreciated, this took way too long to respond to.

Well what's funny is much of this could have been avoided if you just read my prior posts...

 

[already over]

Only in the WB, and please post sources to citizenship being stripped in Israel as well as the claim that they're somehow second-rate citizens.

Have you read about civil marriage in Israel?
As for second class citizens:

A report issued in April 1999 by Sikkuy, a nonpartisan association that promotes equal opportunity for Arab citizens of Israel, declares that, “Arab citizens of Israel have not yet attained the expression of full civic partnership, as evinced, among other things, in their marginal representation in the civil service, especially in government ministries in Jerusalem...Since the state was established, the Arab population in Israel has grown sixfold but its land reserves have contracted steadily...Public housing does not resemble that offered to Jewish citizens, thus, Arab citizens rely almost solely on private land. However, the shortage of private land thwarts further building possibilities....As for services to citizens: the land earmarked for service and public use is only 40 to 70 percent of that customarily reserved in Jewish counties...About 70 percent of the Housing Ministry budget is offlimits to Arab citizens because it is reserved for ”˜special population groups,’ all of which are Jewish. Even the remainder of the budget reaches Arab citizens only in part.”

And
http://www.alternet.org/world/israels-kpalestinian-residents-are-treated-second-class-citizens

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152 (source of your liking)

I want you to find me a SINGLE law in Israel that discriminates against non-Jews, just a single law, just one

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginalize-palestinian-arab-citizens
http://www.adalah.org/en/content/view/6569
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/allowing-discrimination-palestinians

What is your point? Do you want me to post pictures of Jews in arabic/muslim countries? In contrast to your image, I could post videos of Israelis saying death to arabs. However I dont see what you're trying to get at.

Find me examples of this happening. If Israel wanted to destroy the Al-Aqsa, it would have been destroyed when the Jews retook Jerusalem during the 1967 war. Did that happen? No. The Israeli gov. has respected every religious site in Israel, not only their Jewish landmarks.

Do you intepret things to your liking? If Israeli authorities destroyed the Al-Aqsa Mosque it would spark international outcry not only from Arabic countries, but from the remaining muslim countries aswell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNYCpwOJdOM

By the way, if these sites were so holy, they wouldn't have looked like shit during the 19th century

Here's an image for a reference. So much for your "holy" sites, right?

Again, what is your point? It is the third holiest site in Sunni Islam, what are you getting at? What kind of reasoning is this?
It looks beautiful, it was finished in 705 CE and then rebuilt a couple of times, do you expect it to look like Burj Khalifa? It is a place of worhsip, does the western wall look beautiful to you?

Really? More bias? You're somehow attempting to make the claim that Israel doesn't want to allow aid into Gaza, or that Israel themselves rejects the Arabs in Gaza medically, that's hysterical, and patently false.

You just ignored the article with the doctor, what does the article imply?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30054556

or that Israel themselves rejects the Arabs in Gaza medically

I did not, you just interpret whatever to your likning.

those bloodthirsty Israelis must really hate the Arabs in Gaza right

They're not particularly fond of them when more than 2,220 Palestinians, including 1,492 civilians lose their lives. And a total of 513 children (2014).

They deny them water? And your sources to back that claim up are what exactly?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/04/westbank-water-restrictions-israel.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8327188.stm

You must be another one of those people who looks at the first page and doesn't actually read. outlets

You use pro-jewish websites to backup your claims whilst claiming that wikipages are riddled with half-truths. Are you familiar with the use of footnotes in wikipedia?

The old "white phosphorus!" crybaby mantra, please.

What kind of argument is this? Read up on warcrimes and the effects of white phosphorus.

So you aren't going to post links to the supposed treaties they broke?

Israel violated the Oslo accords of 1993

Israel has made peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, who belligerents in the past wars. Guess what? Neither treaty has been broken since those treaties were formed. So what's your excuse for them not being broken? Since the Egypt-Israel treaty there has been growing economic exchange between the two nations.
Currently, Jordan and Israel are working on a pipeline together.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...id-to-plan-pipeline-for-gas-exports-to-jordan
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7744200c-336d-11e4-9607-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3bm5tuIrp
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jordan-israel-agree-900m-red-sea-dead-sea-pipeline-1489773

Sooooo what exactly is your excuse for this one?

Not an argument. What do these treaties and the pipeline agreement have to do with the ongoing Palestinian conflict? Can you stay ontopic? Why are you pointing this out? Do you want the countries to not get on good terms with Israel? We're talking about the Israel-Palestinian conflict not Israel's foreign affairs. I can point out UN resolutions Israel has broken if you want to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

Explain to me how that equates to technological advances? lol

Explain to me how the UAE is lagging behind in fields of infrastructure and technology.

OPEC = "look at how much petrol we can export"

You clearly dont understand OPEC's influence on the market.

Guess who this is? An Arab who won Miss Israel

Guess who this is? A black woman who won Miss Israel.

Tell me again about "racism" in Israel.

Nice you just ignored the link I posted. Segregation and racism is a problem in Israel and even the authorities acknowledge it, how come you neglect it? I am starting to think you're delusional.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm (Ctrl-F, discrimination)


I'll educate you more on "racism" in Israel.

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish fingernail

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/28/w...tough-measures-against-militant-settlers.html

Also Ethiopian-jews\Beta-Israelis are widely discriminated in Israel.
https://news.vice.com/article/clashes-erupt-in-tel-aviv-at-anti-racism-protest
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...in-or-yehuda-while-politicians-argue-1.168964 (source of your liking)

And your point? Jews are the minority in the entire Middle East.

My point was that prior to the Jewish settlements, arabs were the majority in that area.

I'm not opposed to a two-state solution, and neither are the Jews. The difference is that many of the Arabs want an Arab state without the existence of the Jewish state, that is the big difference and why Israel has not, and will not, give up more land for peace.

According to you? http://jcpa.org/poll-israeli-jews-oppose-palestinian-state/
Get out

Not really. Read my above post with quotes from a UN report. Are you aware that the Arab League has 20+ states? Israel is a tiny ass country, hardly a threat in terms of land acquisition to a much larger Arab entity if that's what you're getting at.
.

Arabic states are denied unconventional weapons because of Israel. How do you expect these countries to fight without nukes or unconventional weapons? As a matter of fact Israel is the only country in the middel east with WMDs

 

[tMoon]

I'm only going to respond to a few pieces because this is a pointless conversation. Based off your responses to both me and various other people on this thread (I decided to gander through it a little bit) you're incredibly - some would say blindly - patriotic towards Israel, you won't acknowledge facts, and believe Israel to be this benevolent country who has done nothing wrong.

Maybe because you and everyone else uses the same regurgitated points of view that aren't supported by historic fact.

Awesome, so that justifies an elitist perspective!

You're right, there is a big difference. The difference being that calling someone a "Palestinians" is entirely false. At no point in the history of this planet has anyone titled themselves a "Palestinian." Only in the last couple decades has that occurred. The name "Palestine" itself is foreign to the region.

People can change what they call themselves. There were colonist that lived in the U.S. for a 100 years before the revolution. They didn't call themselves Americans then. Canadians didn't call themselves Canadians, or the British British throughout the entire existence as a country.

You do realize you didn't even define it.

I (very basically) defined Nation, what are you referring to? Nation-state? Well, I would say a government/regime whom has a legitimate control over force, whom can properly support its' citizens, has defined borders & sovereignty alongside sharing a common people with some sort of common culture (that's where the nation comes in.)

the only reason they make the claim is because a large percentage of those incarcerated in Israel are blacks. Is it anywhere true that the reason is racism? No.

Racism can very possibly be behind a higher incarceration of a different race. For example, in the U.S. black and white people smoke weed at the same rate, yet are 3-11 times more likely to be arrested for it (depending on the state.)

Like America with our Mexican illegal immigration issue.

Its actually many Latin Americans coming in through Mexico, it is not a "Mexican illegal immigration issue." That and this "issue" is in large part the U.S. failing to provide an efficient path to citizenship.

Anyone can go to Israel and find plenty of blacks that are doing entirely fine as civilians. Not to mention the many blacks in the IDF that are again, completely fine.

Having representation does not mean that a group of people does not face discrimination or other problems.

Because in its application to this situation, it's beyond basic. It implies sovereignty, something of which hasn't been for centuries in this region.

What the hell are you talking about. There are multiple sovereign nations in the region. Israel obviously being one among others such as Egypt.

Then explain how the Arabs living under the British Mandate became Jordanians overnight while the others mystically remained "Palestinians."

The name is regional, period.

You're way to caught up on the name. The worlds' languages and the words we use to describe people, things, places, ourselves are dynamic and will continue to change and evolve.

Perhaps the taking on of the Palestinian people is new, but Palestine is no new thing
"After toppling the Mamluk state in 1517, the Ottoman Turks took control of most of the Arab world. Palestine existed within the Ottoman Empire as two districts, also referred to as Sanjaks. The legal origin of citizenship in the Middle East was born of the Ottoman Citizenship Law of 19 January 1869 and the Treaty of Lausanne."

Right, "no threat" because of the Iron Dome. And you're starting to toss statements that are actually quite silly.

Quite silly, just like the "war" with Gaza last year where Israel had killed over a thousand civilians with the only thing lost to a rocket was a chicken coop. I believe it ended up with two Israelis dead, and what, 2,500 innocent civilians?

We can toy with the thought that no one is innocent because civilians get caught in the crossfire of military engagements, but in terms of who's more civil, the answer is obvious.

Caught in the crossfire is an understatement. More like deliberately attacked and killed.

Hamas' charter calls for the complete and utter annihilation of Israel and the Jews. The Israeli declaration calls for the unity and peace of the Arabs within their borders.

Terrorists organization who has been fueled by destruction at the hands of Israel verse a country who has to at least somewhat handle itself like it has an interest in peace in order to continue receiving a U.S. backing.

If Israel lost any of their three major wars, it would have been 100% destroyed at the hands of the Arabs.

Easy to say that when it's not what happened. It is highly unlikely the rest of the world would of just sat back if either side appeared it was going to be successful in their attempt to eradicate the another.

Unless you're in favor of a two-state solution that puts terrorists within walking distance of certain major Israeli cities?

It's all about perspective, they would likely call the IDF terrorists.

Israel is a tiny ass country, hardly a threat in terms of land acquisition to a much larger Arab entity if that's what you're getting at.

That is utter bullshit. Israel is a huge threat. It may be a tiny country, but it has one of the world's super powers backing it's military. Israel has one of the best air forces in the world and technology that no other Arab state has access too, partially in thanks to the U.S.

If claims of "discrimination" were true my job of providing evidences to counter that would be much more difficult.

Having representation does not mean that a group of people does not face discrimination or other problems.

 

[Spyder69]

Before I even started typing I knew this would be too easy. How do I know that? Because you're Googling without actually clicking on the links and reading them yourself, hence, some of your links are 404's (http://www.alternet.org/world/israels-kpalestinian-residents-are-treated-second-class-citizens). Good job there smart guy, now allow me to dismantle your entire argument.

Have you read about civil marriage in Israel?
As for second class citizens:



And
http://www.alternet.org/world/israels-kpalestinian-residents-are-treated-second-class-citizens

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152 (source of your liking)

http://news.yahoo.com/arab-israeli-anger-simmers-galilee-deadly-shooting-203108429.html

Another indicator you never actually read the things you link to. Utterly failing to understand how the author of that article associates civil liberties with the Kufr Kana. Do you know what happened in Kufr Kana years ago? An Arab decided to go on a stabbing spree with a knife against police, he was shot dead, which sparked the riots. But I suppose they should have just let him stab them to death because shooting him was obviously discrimination... lol

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginalize-palestinian-arab-citizens
http://www.adalah.org/en/content/view/6569
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/allowing-discrimination-palestinians

As soon as I saw adalah.org I knew I was dealing with someone who as brainless as the rest of the people screaming "racism" and "discrimination." adalah.org is probably one of the worst sites to use as a source. Why? Because they've continually listed laws that they claim discriminate against Arabs SPECIFICALLY. The funny part is they actually supply links directly to the law, but when you read it, there's no mention of the law pertaining solely to Arabs, but all Israeli civilians.

Ahhh and of course, Human Rights Watch, literally one of if not the most biased source you could possibly cite. You do realize that HRW accused Israel of the "beach bombing" back in 2006 where they claimed they visited the crater left by Israeli artillery, yet in the actual video footage, there is no crater, and if it were actual Israeli artillery, there wouldn't still be beach towels and chairs lying around in the spot where they claimed it had hit, it would have been obliterated.

https://twitter.com/JudgeDan48/status/570067929020018690

Kind of like this also, when they and others also fell for the propaganda that Israel opened a dam, flooding Gaza. The only problem was that no dam existed in Southern Israel in the first place. Hence, many of the stories were pulled/removed from their sites. Then again, we are dealing with an entity that loves to propagate pure bull shit no matter how factually false it is.

What is your point? Do you want me to post pictures of Jews in arabic/muslim countries? In contrast to your image, I could post videos of Israelis saying death to arabs. However I dont see what you're trying to get at.

I'd actually love for you to even try lol

Care to find me Arab nations where everyone regardless of race, religion or sex have equal voting rights? Care to find me an Arab nation where Hebrew is also an official language? (Arabic is an official language in Israel)

How about work? http://www.state.gov/1997-2001-NOPDFS/global/human_rights/1996_hrp_report/israel.html

Section 6. Worker Rights

a. The Right of Association

Workers may join and establish labor organizations freely.

(Arabs and Jews)

Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip who work in Israel may not join Israeli trade unions or organize their own unions in Israel. Palestinian trade unions in the occupied territories are not permitted to conduct activities in Israel (see Section 6.a. of the annex). However, nonresident workers in the organized sector are entitled to the protection of Histadrut work contracts and grievance procedures. They may join, vote for, and be elected to shop-level workers' committees if their numbers in individual establishments exceed a minimum threshold. Palestinian participation in such committees is minimal.

Remember, this is pertaining to the WB/Gaza Strip, which is subject to IDF military law, there's a difference. It's not "discrimination" when the residents aren't even technically part of "mainland" Israel, even though you'd like to pretend, then again, as stated here in the law, there are protections IN these areas for these residents.

Labor laws apply to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and to the Syrian Druze living on the Golan Heights.

Unions are free to affiliate with international organizations.

Moving on.

c. Prohibition of Forced or Compulsory Labor

The law prohibits forced or compulsory labor. Neither Israeli citizens nor nonresident Palestinians working in Israel are subject to this practice. Civil rights groups charge that unscrupulous employers often take advantage of illegal workers' lack of status (see Section 6.e.) to hold them in conditions amounting to involuntary servitude.

Oh would you look at that. So much for discrimination.

Do you intepret things to your liking? If Israeli authorities destroyed the Al-Aqsa Mosque it would spark international outcry not only from Arabic countries, but from the remaining muslim countries aswell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNYCpwOJdOM

Let me guess... this was when the Arabs were actually using their "holy site" as a place to throw stones from, not to mention what's being thrown in the video are non-lethal.

There has never been an attempt made by the Israeli gov. to destroy the Al-Aqsa, but keep dreaming.

Again, what is your point? It is the third holiest site in Sunni Islam, what are you getting at? What kind of reasoning is this?
It looks beautiful, it was finished in 705 CE and then rebuilt a couple of times, do you expect it to look like Burj Khalifa? It is a place of worhsip, does the western wall look beautiful to you?

And all I continually hear is "what? I don't get it. What?" Think and comprehend, young one.

What you're failing to understand is that your "third holiest site" was neglected for centuries. The man in the picture is actually an Ottoman. These sites for centuries were neglected by Muslims for the most part. They only became "oh so holy" or some place of importance in the last few decades. Are you even aware of your own history? Probably not.

You just ignored the article with the doctor, what does the article imply?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30054556

And you're still seemingly oblivious as to why. Gilbert is essentially the same as most anti-Israel romancers. Making claims that are never backed by facts. Denouncing Israel's actions against Hamas, when he's apparently too dimwitted to understand that when Hamas hides among women and children in urban areas, there will be casualties.

They're not particularly fond of them when more than 2,220 Palestinians, including 1,492 civilians lose their lives. And a total of 513 children (2014).

Oh boy, and here we go again with the mindless rhetoric.

http://time.com/3035937/gaza-israel-hamas-palestinian-casualties/

I invite you to sit down and enjoy some of these videos.

https://youtu.be/ocZKe0hmmBI?list=PLjVFUp_ZDUEffIulyMMSLbqpjyy8jxhIt Hamas spokesman: We are not afraid of Israel because we love death

https://youtu.be/3-GVYrZ7rSw Hamas TV: Dead Gaza civilians privileged to have died this way

https://youtu.be/Nu-e5qWXx-k Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital

https://youtu.be/yoK9YL6D5RE IDF Urges Civilians to Leave Areas of Gaza Targeted for Strikes [400,000+ leaflets were dropped]

https://youtu.be/N3OYjKZ2Cu8 Hamas TV show has Gaza children sing praises of suicide bombing

https://youtu.be/YIBNRVgq59Y Hamas indoctrination of Kids: Bombs more precious than children

All the while Israel still allows millions of tons of aid through their crossings. Allowing Gazan's medical aid in Israeli hospitals. All the while Hamas continues to fight a war that is quite literally, pointless.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/04/westbank-water-restrictions-israel.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8327188.stm

How much propaganda are you going to link me to until your own brain cells die on you?

http://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/perspectives238.pdf

Today, the Palestinians consume some 200 million cubic meters of water per
annum in Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians could easily raise that amount
by at least 50 percent, without any additional assistance or allocation from the
State of Israel. This would require several simple actions:
If the Palestinians were to begin drilling the Eastern Mountain Aquifer, at the
sites already approved for drilling, they very quickly would secure an
additional 50 million cubic meters of water per year.
If the Palestinians were to reduce urban water waste from 33 percent to 20
percent by fixing the main leaks in their urban water pipes (something that
can be done without great effort), they would immediately benefit from 10
million additional cubic meters of water per annum.
If the Palestinians were to collect and treat their urban waste water, they
would gain at least 30 million cubic meters of water a year. This would free
up 30 million cubic meters (per annum) of fresh water, currently used for
agriculture, for home usage. This would allow them both to improve their
urban water supply and to expand agricultural lands.

tl;dr- they waste more water than is necessary, and thus, at times they have water issues, and why Israel actually has to provide them with more than what was agreed upon.

You use pro-jewish websites to backup your claims whilst claiming that wikipages are riddled with half-truths. Are you familiar with the use of footnotes in wikipedia?

And again... apparently you can't read. The only time I used Israeli news outlets was to make a point that IN ISRAEL it is well reported when Hamas doesn't pay their electricity bills, and Israel shuts off their power so they will pay their debts. Unlike you, I don't used insanely biased sources that have been proven to be wrong again and again. HRW and adalah being two of them.

Israel violated the Oslo accords of 1993

Yet still... you couldn't cite an incident even if you wanted to. Are you even aware of what the Oslo Accords pertain to? You probably don't, do you?

Not an argument. What do these treaties and the pipeline agreement have to do with the ongoing Palestinian conflict? Can you stay ontopic? Why are you pointing this out? Do you want the countries to not get on good terms with Israel? We're talking about the Israel-Palestinian conflict not Israel's foreign affairs. I can point out UN resolutions Israel has broken if you want to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

Still too dimwitted to understand? You like to portray Israel as if their sole intent is to ruin relations and treaties. I gave you two examples of how your claim is factually false. As long as the Arabs stick to the agreement, Israel will also. That FACT is proven with the Egypt and Jordan peace treaties. Have those treaties been violated? No. So please give me reasons as to why Israel would violate treaties with the PLO/PA? You haven't.

Explain to me how the UAE is lagging behind in fields of infrastructure and technology.

You clearly dont understand OPEC's influence on the market.

Oil influence and "look at our tall buildings." Yes, i'm quite impressed. lol

Nice you just ignored the link I posted. Segregation and racism is a problem in Israel and even the authorities acknowledge it, how come you neglect it? I am starting to think you're delusional.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm (Ctrl-F, discrimination)

Really? lol? Because non-Jews obviously don't serve in the Knesset, Supreme Court, as school teachers to Jews and Arabs and commanders in the IDF. And i'm the delusional one? Do me a favor and look up that word in the dictionary, because you're still reiterating the same garbage that isn't based in any facts.

How about we look up the definition of "segregation."

seg·re·ga·tion
ˌseɡrəˈɡāSH(&#601n/
noun
the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart.
"the segregation of pupils with learning difficulties"
the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.

Did you see the above images i've posted? If Israel practiced segregation, none of those people would be holding those positions, try again. Racism as well, but keep trying.

And you want me to ctrl-F for "discrimination"? Sure, seeing as I know you didn't read this page, but I actually did. So I guess i'll bury you with your own link. Thanks for the link.

Societal Abuses and Discrimination
On September 5, a young religious Jew spat at Greek Orthodox priests in Jerusalem. The perpetrator was arrested, fined, and banned from the Old City of Jerusalem for 30 days. Incidents occurred in which ultra-Orthodox Jews threw rocks at motorists to protest their driving on the Sabbath.

Wellllllllllllll, isn't that interesting? A JEW actually being temporarily banned from one of the most holy places in all of Judaism... so much for discrimination right?

Neo-Nazi graffiti were sprayed on monuments and gravesites of several well-known Israeli historical figures. In May swastikas and graffiti comparing Prime Minister Sharon to Adolf Hitler were sprayed on the road into the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum. In June police began investigating two IDF soldiers caught participating in neo-Nazi ceremonies.

Wow. Investigating IDF soldiers. Yeah, lots of discrimination! lol

Section 5 Discrimination, Societal Abuses, and Trafficking in Persons

The law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, gender, marital status, political beliefs, or age. These laws sometimes were not enforced, either due to institutionalized discrimination or to lack of resources. On September 7, then interior minister Ophir Pines-Paz termed the country's policy toward its Arab citizens "institutional discrimination" and called for affirmative action.

Quite contradictory when based on all these reports in this page application of the law is not leaning towards Jew nor Arab. The claim that there's discrimination is patently false, but lets keep reading, shall we?

On October 22, police found a Druze woman hanging from a tree and charged three members of her family, including her father, with murder. The police suspected that male family members killed her for disgracing the family. According to WAVO the local community alleged that the police arrested the wrong persons and that evidence pointed elsewhere. At year's end police investigation continued.

On December 17, police arrested two brothers from the Israeli Arab town of Mughar after they confessed to killing their sister ostensibly to preserve their family's honor. On December 19, they were arraigned in the Acre Magistrate's Court on murder charges. At year's end the case was pending.

So much discrimination right?

According to the government, the Commission for Equal Rights of People with Disabilities, within the justice ministry, addressed some 500 discrimination cases, mainly in the areas of accessibility and employment. On March 22, the government enacted a law to require greater building and public area access for persons with disabilities.

The government also amended the law to allow Palestinian men aged 35 and older and women aged 25 and older to request Israeli citizenship through family unification. In July Adalah petitioned the high court to suspend implementation of the amended law as still discriminatory, and requested a court ruling on Adalah's 2003 challenge to the original law.

Ah, and here we have Adalah in true moronic fashion. The Israeli government actually amending a law for non-Jews, yet Adalah still claims it's somehow discrimination. That is the definition of contradictory, especially when it comes to Israeli marriage laws, as certain dynamics to Israeli/Jewish law with marriage are quite tricky.

Should I stop there or continue quoting from the very page you linked me to that was somehow supposed to support your stance? Next time, actually read the damn pages you link to, you only make yourself look like a fool.

I'll educate you more on "racism" in Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/28/w...tough-measures-against-militant-settlers.html

Also Ethiopian-jews\Beta-Israelis are widely discriminated in Israel.
https://news.vice.com/article/clashes-erupt-in-tel-aviv-at-anti-racism-protest
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...in-or-yehuda-while-politicians-argue-1.168964 (source of your liking)

Really. Are you that fucking mentally handicapped?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/f...not-ashamed-to-say-there-is-racis#.nwBen6KZw8

Are you so insanely stupid that you can't even see that the 2013 Miss Israel was Ethiopian? LOL

Let me EDUCATE you on something. Every nation on this planet deals with racism, no one claims that Israel is free of racism. Hell, even some ultra-Orthodox Jews despise Israel and burn the Israeli flag, does that then make all Jews racist? No, that means every country has its idiots. The "issue" Israel deals with is much like ours in terms of illegal immigration. Can someone living in California or Texas spot someone who is more than likely an illegal immigrant? Probably. Do we want/like illegal immigrants who steal jobs and leech off our government? No. It's the same thing with Israel and those who attempt to enter Israel illegally, it just happens to be they're black. Does that equate to widespread racism? Not even slightly.

My point was that prior to the Jewish settlements, arabs were the majority in that area.

No duh. Apparently you're also oblivious to the fact the Jews were expelled from their land centuries ago.

According to you? http://jcpa.org/poll-israeli-jews-oppose-palestinian-state/
Get out

Allow for me to educate you.

75% of the Israeli Jewish public continue to oppose Israel’s withdrawal from the Jordan Valley and the division of Jerusalem.

Some 75% of Israeli Jews oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state if it means an Israeli withdrawal from the Jordan Valley. A similar percentage would oppose the replacement of the IDF with international forces in the Jordan Valley. Notably, 52% of Israelis who identify with “the left” oppose the replacement of the IDF with international forces in the Jordan Valley.

And do you know WHY? Because Hamas is still militant, along with Hezbollah. In what world do you give up land "for peace" when the very people you're giving up land to are still calling for your complete annihilation?

Overall, 74% of Israeli Jews oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state on the 1967 lines, while 76% oppose a Palestinian state if it means the division of Jerusalem.

And there's the kicker, the half-truth you like to play time and time again. The majority of people aren't opposed to a two-state solution. What everyone is opposed to is a two-state solution that compromises the security of Israel.

In the end, you never actually read anything you link me to, just like the poll results you linked me to. If you had actually read the poll results I wouldn't be making you look like an illiterate moron who can't read a few sentences that entirely refute your stance on this matter.

Arabic states are denied unconventional weapons because of Israel. How do you expect these countries to fight without nukes or unconventional weapons? As a matter of fact Israel is the only country in the middel east with WMDs

..... what? Half of what you said is nonsensical.

Oh no! Israel has WMD's?! Say it aint so!.... why do people like you always use that as an example when all it proves is that Israel has more restraint to not use them. Thanks, again, for bolstering my argument.

Check and mate? Check and mate. Try again.

I'm only crying

That is utter bullshit. Israel is a huge threat.

LOL I had to redo my entire reply just to cater to this level of idiocy because the rest of my post would just go over your head.

Please justify your statement when the treaties between Jordan and Egypt have not been broken and the two countries and their relations continue to flourish.

I'm secretly sitting here laughing at how ridiculous these responses are getting. Yeah... a huge threat... I bet Jordan and Egypt (two past countries that attempted to destroy Israel) are really regretting making peace with Israel aren't they? lol

 

[tMoon]

LOL I had to redo my entire reply just to cater to this level of idiocy because the rest of my post would just go over your head.

Please justify your statement when the treaties between Jordan and Egypt have not been broken and the two countries and their relations continue to flourish.

I'm secretly sitting here laughing at how ridiculous these responses are getting. Yeah... a huge threat... I bet Jordan and Egypt (two past countries that attempted to destroy Israel) are really regretting making peace with Israel aren't they? lol

- Ignores entire post
- Proceeds to call an individual an idiot when refusing to acknowledge something as basic as a political scientist's definition of a nation
- Allow me to correct myself, they have the potential to be a huge threat due to their military capabilities that trump everyone in the region
- Loving your elitist attitude, it's great (and ignorant)


In other news:

A kindergarten in East Jerusalem has come up with a controversial play which showed a kid dressed as IDF soldier “killing” a Palestinian boy with a gun. The supporters of the “victim” then cover him in a Palestinian flag.
http://rt.com/news/264153-israel-palestine-school-murder/

I had opened the above article off twitter, but in their sidebar there was another so I thought why not link that one as well (even if it was 7 months ago.)

Israeli police have fired a rubber bullet at a five-year-old Palestinian boy’s face as he was getting out of a school bus on his way home, the child’s family told Palestinian media. He sustained a skull fracture under his eye.
http://rt.com/news/217559-israel-shot-palestinian-child/

 

[Spyder69]

- Ignores entire post
- Proceeds to call an individual an idiot when refusing to acknowledge something as basic as a political scientist's definition of a nation

When you can refrain from making idiotic statements such as

israel is a huge threat

I might take your posts serious. Then again, you're someone who likes to use semantics to defend a position that has nothing to back it historically. At least you tried when you used Ottoman districts, then again, they were purely regional and nothing to denote distinctiveness.

I'm arguing with someone who can't get through their thick skull that the name itself is regional as well as foreign. Hence, Arabs can't even properly pronounce their fictitious country.

- Allow me to correct myself, they have the potential to be a huge threat due to their military capabilities that trump everyone in the region

Again with the idiocy, but this time you're backtracking and moving the goal posts. So I guess this just proves you're a supporter of terrorism? Rather than opposing it? Hamas is a terrorist group, but it's okay that they constantly lob rockets because Israel's military capabilities surpass theirs. Is that about right?

- Loving your elitist attitude, it's great (and ignorant)

Coming from the ignorant moron who constantly cries "they're a huge threat!" Care to find me examples where Israel went on the offensive when not provoked? Your entire idiotic argument holds no water when we look at the examples of the Egyptian and Jordanian peace treaties.

In other news:


I had opened the above article off twitter, but in their sidebar there was another so I thought why not link that one as well (even if it was 7 months ago.)

Sooo the purpose of the videos was to do what? Help my own argument? An anti-Israel propaganda play put on by "Palestinians" is supposed to help your argument somehow?

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...alem-act-out-IDF-murdering-Palestinian-404724

This was in the link in the article you linked.

Dar al-Hekma private school in Beit Hanina, a Palestinian neighborhood in East Jerusalem

One of the girls can be heard saying “The collaborator is a traitor! He sold himself, his people, and his homeland!” At the end of the play, the children hold up pictures of senior Palestinian security prisoners, among them Abbas a-Sayyid, planner of Hamas’s 2002 Park Hotel Passover suicide bombing in Netanya that killed 30 civilians and wounded 140, and Marwan Barghouti, leader of Fatah’s Tanzim militia, who is serving five life terms and 40 years in prison for five murders and an attempted murder.

The Dar al-Hekma school is under the auspices of the Education Ministry. The ministry said it views the event “very seriously” and that the incident “will be reviewed at the district level. The office will operate in accordance with the findings of the review.”

Basically, your attempt at somehow drawing a parallel between Hamas brainwashing and the Israeli/WB education system failed, but nice try.

Onto this one http://rt.com/news/217559-israel-shot-palestinian-child/

"A new and in depth examination was conducted following the reports of an injured child being hospitalized and it was found that a number of masked [protesters] threw rocks, Molotov cocktails and shot fireworks at a border police force operating [on Wednesday] on the slopes of Isawiya, to prevent harm to citizens traveling on the road towards Ma’ale Adumim," the police said in its statement.

Yet here you are attempting to paint this picture that a kid was just getting off a bus and he was shot in the face without reason. Guess what bud? Shit happens. But continue attempting to portray it as if it was targeted.

Then again, I guess you're someone to also give into propaganda. AKA: Pallywood. How about we take a trip down Pallywood Lane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2QoGtJwZH0 Pallywood : Propaganda In The Making

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T2J1iASLKw this is a favorite of mine. Pallywood and other media that bought into it reported that an Israeli driver had just ruthlessly run over children. I guess it's too bad a full video of the incident, and nothing in the media reports was supported by the Pallywood propaganda, as shown in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leI4zuW0FMI Another of my favorites. I remember seeing this everywhere on Twitter. Once the video surfaced showing what actually happened no one continued to post the picture.

How about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWJCxZhutEg "Israeli police: video of crying boy was staged" these stories are always great with a bit of context, much like your two media reports you posted.

This is fun, keep them coming.

 

[tMoon]

You seem to argue in this manner
- Briefly bring up point
- Make a belittling statement how that isn't accurate
- Completely derail off the point and move into some other point that 'may' somehow relate to it

When you can refrain from making idiotic statements such as I might take your posts serious. Then again, you're someone who likes to use semantics to defend a position that has nothing to back it historically. At least you tried when you used Ottoman districts, then again, they were purely regional and nothing to denote distinctiveness.

*refers back to my first comment in this post*

- Is a distinct district with a distinct population
- Is somehow also purely a region and does nothing to denote distinctiveness

I'm arguing with someone who can't get through their thick skull that the name itself is regional as well as foreign. Hence, Arabs can't even properly pronounce their fictitious country.

Don't recall ever disagreeing with that. Even though a word can, it is no way required to be limited to a specific geography.

Again with the idiocy, but this time you're backtracking and moving the goal posts. So I guess this just proves you're a supporter of terrorism? Rather than opposing it? Hamas is a terrorist group, but it's okay that they constantly lob rockets because Israel's military capabilities surpass theirs. Is that about right?

*refers back to my first comment in this post*

- I do not support terrorism done by anybody
-- Who the terrorists are depends on who you ask
- No it's not ok they lob rockets, but I also attempt to analyze why a group would do such a thing and what their motive is. After doing that, it's much easier to see where a group may be coming from.

Coming from the ignorant moron who constantly cries "they're a huge threat!" Care to find me examples where Israel went on the offensive when not provoked? Your entire idiotic argument holds no water when we look at the examples of the Egyptian and Jordanian peace treaties.

*refers back to my first comment in this post*

- You're acting like an elitist prick. Reading your posts as you attempt to attack/belittle the individual you're talking to is ridiculous. Good luck trying to talk with such an attitude in an actual conversation and have the person take you serious/even attempt to listen to you.

Note: You can be a threatening state without actually engaging, or even appearing to have the intent to engage. The U.S. military power trumps that of Mexico. There is no hostility and no reason for the U.S. to invade/to engage Mexico militarily. Now, if that changed and there was some tension, they are a threat to Mexico. In a less "could be" situation, North Korea is a threat to South Korea and Japan.

Sooo the purpose of the videos was to do what? Help my own argument? An anti-Israel propaganda play put on by "Palestinians" is supposed to help your argument somehow?

It was just a link I saw and I shared, it wasn't aimed at you.

Basically, your attempt at somehow drawing a parallel between Hamas brainwashing and the Israeli/WB education system failed, but nice try.

I have no idea what you're talking about

Yet here you are attempting to paint this picture that a kid was just getting off a bus and he was shot in the face without reason. Guess what bud? Shit happens. But continue attempting to portray it as if it was targeted.

Lots of shit happens apparently.

Also, either side could post a nearly never-ending stream of articles and videos denoting the one side is worse then the other (I'd say the Palestinian side has a slightly longer never-ending stream, but eh I'm just a guy on Sythe.)

 

[Spyder69]

Note: You can be a threatening state without actually engaging, or even appearing to have the intent to engage. The U.S. military power trumps that of Mexico. There is no hostility and no reason for the U.S. to invade/to engage Mexico militarily. Now, if that changed and there was some tension, they are a threat to Mexico. In a less "could be" situation, North Korea is a threat to South Korea and Japan.

This is about as reply-worth as your post gets.

But really? Threatening without actually engaging... or appearing to have the intent to engage... riiiiiiiiiight. So in Fantasy Land I suppose this is where this kind of logic would make sense.

I think now is a good time to bring up a topic that some seem to have forgotten.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fnp2q3WHbs Israeli riots against pull-out of Gaza-jew doesnt expel jew

Remember when Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip so Hamas could essentially take over?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/aug/17/israel4
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/15/AR2005081500201.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/8/17/israel_begins_forced_removal_of_jewish

Perhaps you don't remember this being on the news, but the Israeli government forcefully evicted its own people in Gaza for peace with the "Palestinians."

But I suppose this isn't good enough right?

It was just a link I saw and I shared, it wasn't aimed at you.

I have no idea what you're talking about

Lots of shit happens apparently.

I take it you didn't watch a single video that was linked. You want to know why there are so many clashes? Maybe you should apprise yourself of how "Palestinians" are raised.

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-palestinian-textbook-fiasco/

Have you ever looked into the text books for school children?

Also, either side could post a nearly never-ending stream of articles and videos denoting the one side is worse then the other (I'd say the Palestinian side has a slightly longer never-ending stream, but eh I'm just a guy on Sythe.)

Just a quick question, have you ever actually visited Israel?

 

[already over]

Before I even started typing I knew this would be too easy. How do I know that? Because you're Googling without actually clicking on the links and reading them yourself, hence, some of your links are 404's (http://www.alternet.org/world/israel...lass-citizens). Good job there smart guy, now allow me to dismantle your entire argument.

http://www.alternet.org/world/israels-palestinian-residents-are-treated-second-class-citizens

Go on tell me more how Palestinians are not treated as second class citizens in Israel.

Another indicator you never actually read the things you link to. Utterly failing to understand how the author of that article associates civil liberties with the Kufr Kana. Do you know what happened in Kufr Kana years ago? An Arab decided to go on a stabbing spree with a knife against police, he was shot dead, which sparked the riots. But I suppose they should have just let him stab them to death because shooting him was obviously discrimination... lol

Did you even press the Hareetz link? Also your own source says

But relatives say he was killed "in cold blood", with CCTV images showing an officer shooting at him as he was backing away from the scene.

Care to find me Arab nations where everyone regardless of race, religion or sex have equal voting rights?

Yes please serve me more propaganda. Palestinians living in East Jerusalem, Gaza strip, WB have no saying in choosing Israeli officials (which is 2.5million of the Israeli population) However Israeli settlers in the same area can vote for Knesset.

When you can refrain from making idiotic statements such as
I might take your posts serious. Then again, you're someone who likes to use semantics to defend a position that has nothing to back it historically. At least you tried when you used Ottoman districts, then again, they were purely regional and nothing to denote distinctiveness.

Rofl Tmoe is the one making idiotic statements right? Here see the Quote below. Also tell me about your defintion of "holy".

By the way, if these sites were so holy, they wouldn't have looked like shit during the 19th century

Here's an image for a reference. So much for your "holy" sites, right?

Let me guess... this was when the Arabs were actually using their "holy site" as a place to throw stones from, not to mention what's being thrown in the video are non-lethal.

There has never been an attempt made by the Israeli gov. to destroy the Al-Aqsa, but keep dreaming.

More like Arabs attempting to fend off Israeli military. I never said that the Israeli government brought the Al-Aqsa mosque to ruins. You're very glad in definitions, why dont you look up the difference between "attack" and destroy. What is your point exactly? When the area was of arab majority, they did not destroy the western wall.

And all I continually hear is "what? I don't get it. What?" Think and comprehend, young one.

What you're failing to understand is that your "third holiest site" was neglected for centuries. The man in the picture is actually an Ottoman. These sites for centuries were neglected by Muslims for the most part. They only became "oh so holy" or some place of importance in the last few decades. Are you even aware of your own history? Probably not.

Bullshit. Please back up such stupd claims.

What you're failing to understand is that your "third holiest site" was neglected for centuries. The man in the picture is actually an Ottoman.

Sure lecture me on my own history, but first let me educate you. The picture you posted is of "The mosque of Omar"

Here let me show you the difference.

This is the al-aqsa mosque
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Temple_Mount-Al-Aqsa_Mosque_(NE_exposure).jpg

Are you so insanely stupid that you can't even see that the 2013 Miss Israel was Ethiopian?

According to you an appearence based contest is a victory for human rights? Newsflash: Your president is black, that does not change the fact that black people face higher incarceration rates than whites.
Your buzzfeed link even strengthens my argument, thanks.

Tell me again about "racism" in Israel.

Every nation on this planet deals with racism, no one claims that Israel is free of racism.

Great just contradict yourself.

No. It's the same thing with Israel and those who attempt to enter Israel illegally, it just happens to be they're black. Does that equate to widespread racism? Not even slightly.

What are you claiming? Ethiopian-jews enetered Israel illegaly?
Law of return?

Here enjoy these links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA (Make sure you watch this one, the rest are not that entertaining)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1rqumlVe04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_psqP_9zw

I've supplied you with a number of links, here more examples.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...contractor-refused-to-sell-me-a-home-1.408866
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/isr...sh_immigrants_were_given_birth_control_shots/
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...nity-netanyahu-vows-to-tackle-racism-1.418720
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...control-story-reflects-a-broader-problem.html

And you're still seemingly oblivious as to why. Gilbert is essentially the same as most anti-Israel romancers. Making claims that are never backed by facts. Denouncing Israel's actions against Hamas, when he's apparently too dimwitted to understand that when Hamas hides among women and children in urban areas, there will be casualties.

Great even more bullshit. Gilbert is a doctor who treats wounds and he has the right to express himself just as he feels like. He obviously has more insight in this matter than you do, you're the oblivious one.

I invite you to sit down and enjoy some of these videos.

https://youtu.be/ocZKe0hmmBI?list=PL...bqpjyy8jxhI t Hamas spokesman: We are not afraid of Israel because we love death

https://youtu.be/3-GVYrZ7rSw Hamas TV: Dead Gaza civilians privileged to have died this way

https://youtu.be/Nu-e5qWXx-k Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital

https://youtu.be/yoK9YL6D5RE IDF Urges Civilians to Leave Areas of Gaza Targeted for Strikes [400,000+ leaflets were dropped]

https://youtu.be/N3OYjKZ2Cu8 Hamas TV show has Gaza children sing praises of suicide bombing

https://youtu.be/YIBNRVgq59Y Hamas indoctrination of Kids: Bombs more precious than children

Even more bias, sure I'll go on youtube and find you Israeli military slaughtering arabs. I also linked you to a kidnapping a few posts back.

tl;dr- they waste more water than is necessary, and thus, at times they have water issues, and why Israel actually has to provide them with more than what was agreed upon.

How much propaganda are you going to feed me with? Provide them or denie them?

And again... apparently you can't read. The only time I used Israeli news outlets was to make a point that IN ISRAEL

How does this differ from adalah and hrw? Hrw is an organisation that protects the rights of the people and adalah speaks on behalf of palestinian population. You clearly know more about how the palestinians are treated than the palestinians know themselves.

Still too dimwitted to understand? You like to portray Israel as if their sole intent is to ruin relations and treaties. I gave you two examples of how your claim is factually false. As long as the Arabs stick to the agreement, Israel will also. That FACT is proven with the Egypt and Jordan peace treaties. Have those treaties been violated? No. So please give me reasons as to why Israel would violate treaties with the PLO/PA? You haven't.

And? Your post was off-topic and you didnt even make a point. Surely Israel would not break a treaty that they benefit from. Their treaties with Egypt and Jordan are not relevant to your topic. I'll link you to UN-resolutions if you want too.

Oil influence and "look at our tall buildings." Yes, i'm quite impressed. lol

I asked you to explain to me how the UAE is lagging behind in fields of infrastructure and technology. Oil influence has a large impact on other sectors aswell.

And there's the kicker, the half-truth you like to play time and time again. The majority of people aren't opposed to a two-state solution. What everyone is opposed to is a two-state solution that compromises the security of Israel.

You just pull everything out of context and like to speak on behalf of the jewish people. The poll said that they're opposed to a two state solution (Netanyahu is not for a two state solution as well)and you claimed they were not.

Oh no! Israel has WMD's?! Say it aint so!.... why do people like you always use that as an example when all it proves is that Israel has more restraint to not use them. Thanks, again, for bolstering my argument.

North-Korea also has nuclear weapons, I suppose they dont pose a threat to South-Korea? Also please tell me how Iran with WMDS is a threat to Israel?

And I asked you to provide evidence that they used human shields, yet for a second time, you've amounted to nothing but making claims without sources cited.

You're right, Israelis use Palestinian children as human shields.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-repo...as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

So much discrimination right?

Great source even more propaganda.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/hrisrael05.html

This website is also where majority of arguments are from. Also exactly what was the point of your quote.

I'm secretly sitting here laughing at how ridiculous these responses are getting. Yeah... a huge threat...

I'm pretty sure Lebanon does not feel the same way as you do

 

[Spyder69]

http://www.alternet.org/world/israels-palestinian-residents-are-treated-second-class-citizens

Go on tell me more how Palestinians are not treated as second class citizens in Israel.

Again, you're only proving how incredibly stupid you are. Do me a favor and stop linking to articles in which you don't actually read.

a law allowing small communities to screen potential new members via admissions committees.

And then a few lines down we have Adalah, like he always does, lying through his teeth.

“The High Court has approved one of the most racist laws of the past several years,” charged Adalah

Yet this law applies specifically to these rural farming communities, and simply give the power for these communities to choose who lives within them. Not to mention these communities are quite small, numbering in only several hundred. You do realize that there are communities that are also predominately Arab?

The law, which was passed in March 2011, allows small communities to set up admissions committees to screen potential new members based on criteria laid down in the community’s bylaws.

Again, just proving a point. All it does is allows these small farming communities to screen potential residents.

How many times do I have to tell you to find me specific discriminatory laws? Laws enabling small communities to screen potential residents is in no way "discriminatory."

Did you even press the Hareetz link? Also your own source says

I'm getting a little tired of your blatant lies.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec7_1415446999

Here's the actual video of the incident. Show me where in this video he was "backing away" after attacking them, you blithering idiot. And i'm the one using propaganda? The actual video footage completely contradicts your level of sheer stupidity in believing the Fakestinian propaganda. Try again.

Yes please serve me more propaganda. Palestinians living in East Jerusalem, Gaza strip, WB have no saying in choosing Israeli officials (which is 2.5million of the Israeli population) However Israeli settlers in the same area can vote for Knesset.

Another indicator you have no clue what you're even talking about. Gaza? Really? Gaza is entirely separate from Israel. Since when do Arabs in Gaza have an influence on Israeli politics? You do realize the Arabs in Gaza are governed by Hamas, right? They voted them into power in 2005.

ALL Arabs in ISRAEL have voting rights if they are citizens of Israel. If someone does not hold citizenship, they cannot vote.

https://www.knesset.gov.il/deSCRIPTion/eng/eng_mimshal_beh.htm#1

The principle of the generality of the elections ensures the active right of every Israeli citizen, who is at least 18 years old, to vote and the right of every Israeli citizen, who is at least 21 years old, to be elected.

Failing to see where exactly it says "only Jewish citizens" or anywhere it alluding to the barring of non-Jewish citizens.

More like Arabs attempting to fend off Israeli military. I never said that the Israeli government brought the Al-Aqsa mosque to ruins. You're very glad in definitions, why dont you look up the difference between "attack" and destroy. What is your point exactly? When the area was of arab majority, they did not destroy the western wall.

Again, propagating the idea that the Israeli police want to do what exactly? That they're there for no reason?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5mcCA6UF9I

Here's an actual video of the exactly incident you're referring to. You're still alluding to the Israeli police/military for some reason wanting to attack their mosque. Yet you still can't prove that. Ever notice that the only time action is taken, the Arabs are rioting? Maybe you should stop rioting, then the police wouldn't have to get involved.

Great even more bullshit. Gilbert is a doctor who treats wounds and he has the right to express himself just as he feels like. You're the oblivious one.

Because it's not like Israeli doctors already do that? Gilbert's intent was purely political, hence, he was banned.

Even more bias, sure I'll go on youtube and find you Israeli military slaughtering arabs. I also linked you to a kidnapping a few posts back.

More bias? What? lol? Explain to me how Gazan children on a children's TV show is "bias." Explain to me how Hamas officials praising death is "bias." Explain to me how Israel dropping literally hundreds-of-thousands of leaflets to warn civilians is "bias." Ignorance is bliss. Also, the kidnapping you referenced has zero context to go along with it. Care to post a news report along with it? That would make it easier to debunk your level of idiocy when I can actually find unbiased sources that tell both sides of the story.

How much propaganda are you going to feed me with? Provide them or denie them?

It's comical at this point that you'd call what I have to post "propaganda."

How does this differ from adalah and hrw? Hrw is an organisation that protects the rights of the people and adalah speaks on behalf of palestinian population. You clearly know more about how the palestinians are treated than the palestinians know themselves.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/hrw_s_bias_and_lack_of_credibility_in_

You do realize that Human Rights Watch is the least credible news source on the face of this Earth, right? It's one of the most criticized, and for good reason.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=0

Here's what the former chairman for HRW had to say,

When I stepped aside in 1998, Human Rights Watch was active in 70 countries, most of them closed societies. Now the organization, with increasing frequency, casts aside its important distinction between open and closed societies.

Israel, with a population of 7.4 million, is home to at least 80 human rights organizations, a vibrant free press, a democratically elected government, a judiciary that frequently rules against the government, a politically active academia, multiple political parties and, judging by the amount of news coverage, probably more journalists per capita than any other country in the world — many of whom are there expressly to cover the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article.php?viewall=yes&id=2456

In May 2009, leaders of Human Rights Watch (HRW) visited Saudi Arabia – one of the major violators of the norms that HRW claims to promote – to raise funds for the organization. Arab news reported that “senior members” of HRW – including Middle East Division director Sarah Leah Whitson, and Hassan Elmasry, a member of the International Board of Directors and the ME Division’s Advisory Committee – attended a “welcoming dinner” and encouraged “prominent members of Saudi society” to finance their work. HRW’s anti-Israel obsession was stated as the major reason for holding this Saudi fundraiser

What's funny is that HRW actually denies having accepted money from KSA or their government and supports that claim simply because they "criticized" KSA for their discriminatory government laws.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/hrw_s_sarah_leah_whitson_and_libya_marketing_qaddafi

Should we continue on with HRW's bias and misinformation?

http://www.coha.org/taking-human-rights-watch-to-task/

” The signers include leading academic specialists from universities in the United States, including Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and a number of state universities, and academic institutions in Argentina, Australia, Brazil, México, the U.K., Venezuela and other countries. The letter cites Jose Miguel Vivanco, lead author of the report, saying “We did the report because we wanted to demonstrate to the world that Venezuela is not a model for anyone…” , as evidence of its political agenda. The letter also criticizes the report for making unsubstantiated allegations, and that some of the sources that Human Rights Watch relied on in the report are not credible.

So please, do tell me how HRW is a credible source.

As for Adalah, need I really say more when I just pointed out how his stance on "discrimination" and "racism" don't line up with what the actual law says?

And? Your post was off-topic and you didnt even make a point. Surely Israel would not break a treaty that they benefit from. Their treaties with Egypt and Jordan are not relevant to your topic. I'll link you to UN-resolutions if you want too.

So what's the point of a treaty? To not benefit from it? Economic growth and government relations apparently aren't a good point to make when paralleled with how Hamas' only intent is the destruction of Israel, rather than the building up of the very people they govern.

The treaties are entirely relevant, you're just ignorant of the fact that Israel does want peace, and is not the aggressor, as shown in the two treaties with two nations that decades ago were calling for their annihilation, but continue pretending they aren't important.

Sure, link me to UN resolutions that actually support my stance. The UN of old is not the UN of today, as i'll be addressing next.

You just pull everything out of context and like to speak on behalf of the jewish people. The poll said that they're opposed to a two state solution (Netanyahu is not for a two state solution as well)and you claimed they were not.

On a scale of 1-stupid, how stupid are you? How about I quote the questions themselves.

Do you support or oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state on the 1967 lines?

Read it you moron, ON THE 1967 LINES. Do you even know what that is?

This is what happened during the 1948 war

Here's another

The poll asks would they agree to the withdrawal to the pre-1967 "borders" (not technically borders). Nowhere does it ask "Are you against the two-state solution?" But find me that question on that page.

Do you support or oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state if it means an Israeli withdrawal from the Jordan Valley?

Again.

Do you support or oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state if it means the division of Jerusalem?

And again.

How about I actually quote the words of Netanyahu since you can't seem to do that yourself.

Netanyahu said, “We will be ready in a future peace agreement to reach a solution where a demilitarized Palestinian state exists alongside the Jewish state.”

Mr. Netanyahu, said that Palestinians’ recognition of Israel as a Jewish state was “not a precondition” for negotiations. But, he said, “there will not be an agreement without that recognition.”

Has Hezbollah or Hamas ever recognized Israel's existence? No.

What was a contingency of the Egyptian x Israel peace treaty? The recognition of Israel. Did Egypt do that? Yes. And their president was actually assassinated by radical Muslims later for doing so.

There will never be a two-state solution until Israel's neighbors discontinue their "death to Israel" chants.

North-Korea also has nuclear weapons, I suppose they dont pose a threat to South-Korea? Also please tell me how Iran with WMDS is a threat to Israel?

Want to know the big difference between North Korea and Israel? The Israeli government isn't making public remarks about nuclear war, unlike North Korea.

Really? Are you that stupid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2pFERLm3po "Iranian Ayatollah leads 'Death to Israel' chants as Iran returns to hate after UN charm offensive"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10BF-eee_Z0 "Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's death to Israel speech" (please don't pretend that just because there's a new president that the mindset changes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Is4ESgcO4 "Death to America! Death to Israel!"

You are so beyond disconnected from reality.

You're right, Israelis use Palestinian children as human shields.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-repo...as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

Now to address the blatant mountain of UN bias.

http://www.adl.org/israel-international/un-international-organizations/c/Israel-at-the-UN.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-right-to-challenge-the-uns-anti-israel-bias

"The point of interest was the candid reaction of a Spanish-speaking UN interpreter, oblivious to the fact that her microphone remained on as she addressed her colleague:"

I mean, I think when you have five statements, not five, like a total of ten resolutions on Israel and Palestine, there’s gotta be something, c’est un peu trop, non? [It’s a bit much, no?] I mean I know… There’s other really bad shit happening [around the world], but no one says anything about the other stuff.

Alejandro Wolff, deputy US permanent representative at the UN, accused the Council of having “a pathological obsession with Israel”.

So far this year, the UN general assembly has passed 21 resolutions condemning Israel. Four resolutions have been passed against all countries in the rest of the world combined. In the meantime, one can only guess at what truly motivates self-declared supporters of the Palestinian cause who remain relatively silent about the Egyptian blockade of Gaza, or the suffering of Palestinians embroiled in the Syrian conflict.

So as for the validity of the report, it's highly questionable. Not to mention, there has literally (to my knowledge) NEVER been any public evidence. Hence, you have a UN report among other "evidence" that goes like this

accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, and alleges

Accusations accompanied by zero evidence to ever surface is what exactly? Propaganda in the making.

Great source even more propaganda.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/hrisrael05.html

This website is also where majority of arguments are from. Also exactly what was the point of your quote.

How. Utterly. Stupid. Are. You. http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm this link dimwit, everything I quoted came from the link YOU gave me. You literally just called your own source propaganda.

Nice you just ignored the link I posted. Segregation and racism is a problem in Israel and even the authorities acknowledge it, how come you neglect it? I am starting to think you're delusional.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.550152
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61690.htm (Ctrl-F, discrimination)

Few posts up, this is your exact post. Are you illiterate? Did you actually Google search those quotes, only to come to the jewishvirtuallibrary? When I took the quotes directly from the government site YOU provided? LOL

HAHAHAHAHAH