Definitions: Reflection & Injection

[YoHoJo]

I DO NOT want this thread to turn into a debate please.​

People who are knowledgeable on the topic, can you please explain the how either reflection, or injection, or both work.

Feel free to use examples, images, etc, anything to help portray your thoughts.

 

[TBotting]

Injection: you modify the code of the client in order to receive fields or set fields
Now Jagex has some code to detect these kind of modifications in the client, by loading certain methods and/or fields, they could just attempt to load Widget.getX for example.

example of an injected class:

class x {
int y;

//now comes the injected getter
public int getY() {
return y;
}
}

Reflection:
A library in java, way harder to detect but has a performance overhead(really small, but it's there)
I'm not going to explain what it is exactly here, but this is a good video that explains it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agnblS47F18
'Because reflection involves types that are dynamically resolved, certain Java virtual machine optimizations can not be performed. Consequently, reflective operations have slower performance than their non-reflective counterparts, and should be avoided in sections of code which are called frequently in performance-sensitive applications.'

So the tradeoff,

Reflection
pros:
way harder to detect than injection
cons:
small overhead
less powerful(can't disable model rendering etc)

Injection:
pros:
no overhead
powerful(can use things like disable model rendering)
cons:
DETECTABLE(IS ACTUALLY BEING DETECTED NOW)

 

[Boatswain]

Injection: you modify the code of the client in order to receive fields or set fields
Now Jagex has some code to detect these kind of modifications in the client, by loading certain methods and/or fields, they could just attempt to load Widget.getX for example.

example of an injected class:

class x {
int y;

//now comes the injected getter
public int getY() {
return y;
}
}

Reflection:
A library in java, way harder to detect but has a performance overhead(really small, but it's there)
I'm not going to explain what it is exactly here, but this is a good video that explains it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agnblS47F18
'Because reflection involves types that are dynamically resolved, certain Java virtual machine optimizations can not be performed. Consequently, reflective operations have slower performance than their non-reflective counterparts, and should be avoided in sections of code which are called frequently in performance-sensitive applications.'

So the tradeoff,

Reflection
pros:
way harder to detect than injection
cons:
small overhead
less powerful(can't disable model rendering etc)

Injection:
pros:
no overhead
powerful(can use things like disable model rendering)
cons:
DETECTABLE(IS ACTUALLY BEING DETECTED NOW)

wow thanks now i feel super smart reading this, lol.

 

[iJava]

Injection: you modify the code of the client in order to receive fields or set fields
Now Jagex has some code to detect these kind of modifications in the client, by loading certain methods and/or fields, they could just attempt to load Widget.getX for example.

example of an injected class:

class x {
int y;

//now comes the injected getter
public int getY() {
return y;
}
}

Reflection:
A library in java, way harder to detect but has a performance overhead(really small, but it's there)
I'm not going to explain what it is exactly here, but this is a good video that explains it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agnblS47F18
'Because reflection involves types that are dynamically resolved, certain Java virtual machine optimizations can not be performed. Consequently, reflective operations have slower performance than their non-reflective counterparts, and should be avoided in sections of code which are called frequently in performance-sensitive applications.'

So the tradeoff,

Reflection
pros:
way harder to detect than injection
cons:
small overhead
less powerful(can't disable model rendering etc)

Injection:
pros:
no overhead
powerful(can use things like disable model rendering)
cons:
DETECTABLE(IS ACTUALLY BEING DETECTED NOW)

Fairly reasonable explanation however I want it noted that JaGeX aren't ONLY detecting a modified clients and even reflection clients will be detected.

 

[mario4755]

Fairly reasonable explanation however I want it noted that JaGeX aren't ONLY detecting a modified clients and even reflection clients will be detected.

I believe the reflection client is undetectable and physically impossible to become detectable. It's like you being so close to yourself in a mirror but it's imposable to touch you... jagex will have the same problem with us. Soooo The only way they can tell that your botting is if the Script its self fucks up or acts like a bot

 

[iJava]

I believe the reflection client is undetectable and physically impossible to become detectable. It's like you being so close to yourself in a mirror but it's imposable to touch you... jagex will have the same problem with us. Soooo The only way they can tell that your botting is if the Script its self fucks up or acts like a bot

Very far from the truth, each bot interacts with the client in more ways than grabbing field values for example a custom applet class loader is provided in each bot.

 

[TBotting]

Very far from the truth, each bot interacts with the client in more ways than grabbing field values for example a custom applet class loader is provided in each bot.

Well, it's better than the injection you are using. Because your bot is being detected as we speak.

 

[GinoDino]

i really dont get all of this seen allot about it lately, but yeah

 

[iJava]

Well, it's better than the injection you are using. Because your bot is being detected as we speak.

You're quite arrogant if you think yours isn't being detected.

 

[TBotting]

You're quite arrogant if you think yours isn't being detected.

I never said that? + my client isn't being detected. Yours however, is.

 

[iJava]

I never said that? + my client isn't being detected. Yours however, is.

And you know this how? No bans I could say the same.

 

[TBotting]

And you know this how? No bans I could say the same.

I'm saying the client is not detected, not that the scripts aren't detected. The code modification system they have is just one of the techniques they use. Reflection won't take away all of the other risks. But reflection does actually take out one of their detection methods.

 

[iJava]

I'm saying the client is not detected, not that the scripts aren't detected. The code modification system they have is just one of the techniques they use. Reflection won't take away all of the other risks. But reflection does actually take out one of their detection methods.

Yes, however you said " + my client isn't being detected". I could easily bypass the method you are talking about and still use injection however the fact of the matter is they are using a lot more methods that would even detect a reflection based bot.

 

[TBotting]

Yes, however you said " + my client isn't being detected". I could easily bypass the method you are talking about and still use injection however the fact of the matter is they are using a lot more methods that would even detect a reflection based bot.

Sigh, do whatever you want.

 

[shoeyman]

Sigh, do whatever you want.

Yes, however you said " + my client isn't being detected". I could easily bypass the method you are talking about and still use injection however the fact of the matter is they are using a lot more methods that would even detect a reflection based bot.

Both of your clients/bots/scripts suck so you can stop the pissing match over which one sucks the least. Until I can actually safely bot my main on a variety of skills, neither one of you should be bragging about anything.

 

[iJava]

Both of your clients/bots/scripts suck so you can stop the pissing match over which one sucks the least. Until I can actually safely bot my main on a variety of skills, neither one of you should be bragging about anything.

You're right yours is a lot better.

 

[TBotting]

You're right yours is a lot better.

this ^

 

[shoeyman]

You're right yours is a lot better.

this ^

Lol really? You're going to use that argument? I'm the one here willing to pay good for a bot that doesn't suck. What happened to to the days of Autofighter where I could get a bot for literally anything and could bot nonstop without ban? All i'm asking is to be able to bot 3-4 hours a day without getting ban hammered. No one can even provide that.

 

[TBotting]

Lol really? You're going to use that argument? I'm the one here willing to pay good for a bot that doesn't suck. What happened to to the days of Autofighter where I could get a bot for literally anything and could bot nonstop without ban? All i'm asking is to be able to bot 3-4 hours a day without getting ban hammered. No one can even provide that.

Times have changed, jagex is now way more serious about bans. You can't compare todays botting scene with the old one. I'm working really hard on improving the current botting scene. I hope that we could some day get close to how it used to be . So far no bans since the move to reflection btw. I'll keep you guys updated about bans, I'm 100% honest about bans. I'm not hiding them from my users in any way.

 

[hexagondv]

Both of your clients/bots/scripts suck so you can stop the pissing match over which one sucks the least. Until I can actually safely bot my main on a variety of skills, neither one of you should be bragging about anything.

And you say they both suck without knowing a piece of shit on how things work? Please...