Proposal of a new rule

[kfjjjdst]

I [after a recent case I won't specify] feel a new rule should be implemented:

If the PM you send to a user is missleading and CAN in fact make anyone feel like they were trading the real user [take for instance the case in particular, where a series of numbers were sent], the user PM'ing SHOULD be held responsible. Why?

This type of scam in fact, could be done with a partner. Say a very trusted member may pull this trick once to profit a few hundred $'s, without their reputation being hurt the least. And since the partner's IP [who will fake the imposter of the victim] will NOT match the sythe.org member's, the victim will be shrugged off without any type of reimbursement.

I also feel it is the member's duty to be careful; We are in a community, as a whole. It's a 5 second extra security measuer for you, to write down some details and copy a part of the chat, yet it may be a lot of money saved for them. Anyone who isn't able to take 5-10 seconds of their life to ensure another member's safety should take responsibility if someone is scammed due to their carelessness, to be honest.

At least 3-4 people have tried this with me and I always called all of them out; If I hadn't about 3-4 members would've lost over $250 due to MY carelessness and I would've been let off without a word... I think that's not the way this should work.

Opinions?

PS: It can easily be distinguished, whether the PM'er was careless or the victim stupid; So every case could be judged / ruled accordingly, therefore I don't think it would be hard to implement this.

 

[ThePrestigedMuzza]

Support x10

But that's not exactly the case in which you are indirectly referring to.

If i tell you to pm KMJT for example to say that we are speaking through an anonymous skype/livechat, and then i scam KMJT, then you should be held accountable for letting me verify through your skype. So what you should do is verify you are talking to the right person and not just send a message KMJT because a random user asked you to. It's on you to verify who you are talking to. If I request a pm from an unverified address you should also request one. Because if you don't you could be verifying your sythe for someone else!

 

[kfjjjdst]

Support x10

But that's not exactly the case in which you are indirectly referring to.

If i tell you to pm KMJT for example to say that we are speaking through an anonymous skype/livechat, and then i scam KMJT, then you should be held accountable for letting me verify through your skype. So what you should do is verify you are talking to the right person and not just send a message KMJT because a random user asked you to. It's on you to verify who you are talking to. If I request a pm from an unverified address you should also request one. Because if you don't you could be verifying your sythe for someone else!

Obviously; I have denied to PM many people and told them to PM me first, then I'll respond [with a copy of the conversation and skype addresses included in my PM, to avoid any confusion].

I know it isn't how it went down exactly, but I found it easier to phrase what I had to say in that way.

 

This is already being discussed in the staff lounge. I assume a new rule will be brought out soon. I'll leave this open incase anyone has any ideas we haven't thought of.

 

[Game]

I agree on this, you should be held responsible for your actions regardless of intent. If a drunk driver runs somebody over, they didn't intend to do it but the carelessness of their actions in the first place is what they're held responsible for. An extreme example, but the point is still valid.

 

[kfjjjdst]

This is already being discussed in the staff lounge. I assume a new rule will be brought out soon. I'll leave this open incase anyone has any ideas we haven't thought of.

I actually happen to have a good one:

Adept a mandatory form, when PM'ing about a trade [this would work, because it is impossible for an imposter to have the exact same conversation with the trusted Sythe member, as the imposter with the victim (unless it's a setup)]. such as:

My skype:
Your skype:
We are talking about:

A part of our conversatoin on skype:



In case the trader who is scammed doesn't have such a PM, he should be at fault, thus forcing traders to ASK for such PM's. This would completely eliminate all PM traps. Having a PM like 'Hey talking on skype' should not be enough. If people learned there is a mandatory form [much like PM'd are MANDATORY for reports via skype in RaS now, so should the PM be specified, imho], they would adept to it and so would the people PM'ing them.
This wouldn't solve livechat problems and such as it happened in the case I was referring to indirectly, but it would eliminate a lot of problems.

 

We will likely try and use something safer than that.
From what we have proposed at the moment it ensures safety, but I have a few things I'd like to add myself when I get back from work.

 

[ThePrestigedMuzza]

We will likely try and use something safer than that.
From what we have proposed at the moment it ensures safety, but I have a few things I'd like to add myself when I get back from work.

Methods of securing.

Idea one, each sythe account may only use one address per format
So skype = one address
hotmail = one address
facebook = one address
and so on and so forth
These can be added on the profile and players can click them to add rather one another rather then actually having to type them out themselves.

Idea two, players who are unverified do not get to receive pms unless they send you one first *unless someone you have no experience with before*
(For example if someone adds you on a skype/email which you are not familiar with)

Idea three, add it as a toolbar with messages that a template will come up.
So see how we have a section for all these emoticons that just make life fun? Right underneath will be a 'send pm' which will display in this format:
My Address(Skype/Hotmailetc):
My Username:
Our Current Conversation (If applicable):


Also you can put in ideas one and three together so that when you click on the 'send pm' template, you can't make any additions or subtractions from the Address and username but you can edit in the 'current conversation'


Also with idea number one, if you wish to change your address on anything you will need to use your log in email to confirm the change.

 

[Swadq]

Methods of securing.

Firstly, each sythe account may only use one address per format
So skype = one address
hotmail = one address
facebook = one address
and so on and so forth
These can be added on the profile and players can click them to add rather one another rather then actually having to type them out themselves.

Secondly, players who are unverified do not get to receive pms unless they send you one first *unless someone you have no experience with before*
(For example if someone adds you on a skype/email which you are not familiar with)

Thirdly, add it as a toolbar with messages that a template will come up.
So see how we have a section for all these emoticons that just make life fun? Right underneath will be a 'send pm' which will display in this format:
My Address(Skype/Hotmailetc):
My Username:
Our Current Conversation (If applicable):


Also you can put in ideas one and three together so that when you click on the 'send pm' template, you can't make any additions or subtractions from the Address and username but you can add in the 'current conversation'


Also with idea number one, if you wish to change your address on anything you will need to use your log in email to confirm the change.

You can already do the first idea - few people use it though because they want to keep their details private.

A quick way to keep things secure while still PMing first is to PM the person you are talking to on Skype a random number/phrase and ask them to repeat it. If they do repeat it, then you are talking to the correct person.

Of course, this won't work with sophisticated man in the middle attacks, where the scammer is having the same conversation with two people from different ends... But there's practically nothing we can do about that anyway.

 

[ThePrestigedMuzza]

I agree on this, you should be held responsible for your actions regardless of intent. If a drunk driver runs somebody over, they didn't intend to do it but the carelessness of their actions in the first place is what they're held responsible for. An extreme example, but the point is still valid.

An even more relevant answer would be we have a rule on sythe if you get hacked and the hacker scams, it is on you to repay the victims of the hacker as it was your carelessness that caused the hack. You didn't intend on getting hacked but if your careless and damage is done you have to take responsibility for it.

 

[ThePrestigedMuzza]

You can already do the first idea - few people use it though because they want to keep their details private.

A quick way to keep things secure while still PMing first is to PM the person you are talking to on Skype a random number/phrase and ask them to repeat it. If they do repeat it, then you are talking to the correct person.

Of course, this won't work with sophisticated man in the middle attacks, where the scammer is having the same conversation with two people from different ends... But there's practically nothing we can do about that anyway.

Swadq, firstly we don't have the idea one implemented. If we did you wouldn't be able to be given a choice, create a new skype if you don't want your personal one made public, but i think each sythe should be binded with a platform.

Secondly that isn't a secure way as evidence by:
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1594675-scammed-roary.html

Which could of been avoided by simply copying a sample of the conversation and sending it, or atleast confirming new users you haven't dealt with before claiming to be people you know and have dealt with before.

 

[Swadq]

Swadq, firstly we don't have the idea one implemented. If we did you wouldn't be able to be given a choice, create a new skype if you don't want your personal one made public, but i think each sythe should be binded with a platform.

Secondly that isn't a secure way as evidence by:
http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer/1594675-scammed-roary.html

Which could of been avoided by simply copying a sample of the conversation and sending it, or atleast confirming new users you haven't dealt with before claiming to be people you know and have dealt with before.

Per 1 - there are reasons people don't want their Skype public. For example, it reduces hackings. It's unfair to ask every Sythe user to bind their account to a Skype account - what if they don't trade? Or only use PMs?

Per 2 - that's a man in the middle attack, as I described. I have no idea what's gone on in your scam report since it's not very clear, but I'm pretty sure that that sort of attack could still be pulled off with any system.

Per 3 - I have no idea what you're talking about. It's difficult to create a rule to specify that.

 

[Ziggily]

I like the idea of the form mentioned by the op. This would be a good way to cut back on this type of scam. I am just curious to see what support this gets in the SL. Would be tough to ensure that new users follow this rule since most never read the stickies. -.-

I would also suggest that when providing proof of the skype convo, have both users type their Sythe Name and Skype just good measure. I am not sure how much it would help. But that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Delta Squad]

it is a good way to cut back, but you are missing the point of how it is now, it's a clever scam, that for the most part 85% of sythe.org users would fall for, because all it really is, is a guy copy n pasting what the other person says, and is swapping the chat logs back and forth.


You wouldn't know you were talking to an imposter unless you dug up the other persons skype, which alot of people keep private.


Yea it can be easily faked and people can get scammed, but so does the new skype rule requiring a pm for the person to refund.




Easy way to fix this is to not talk through anything but sythe.org when trading, which a 1 on 1 chat system should be put in for.


I know you are talking about the roary sit, and its just as much the other guys fault as it is roary, neither of them bothered verifing skype ids.

 

[ThePrestigedMuzza]

it is a good way to cut back, but you are missing the point of how it is now, it's a clever scam, that for the most part 85% of sythe.org users would fall for, because all it really is, is a guy copy n pasting what the other person says, and is swapping the chat logs back and forth.


You wouldn't know you were talking to an imposter unless you dug up the other persons skype, which alot of people keep private.


Yea it can be easily faked and people can get scammed, but so does the new skype rule requiring a pm for the person to refund.




Easy way to fix this is to not talk through anything but sythe.org when trading, which a 1 on 1 chat system should be put in for.


I know you are talking about the roary sit, and its just as much the other guys fault as it is roary, neither of them bothered verifing skype ids.

he claims he thought he wasn't talking to an imposter because they had same username and ip location

I'm sorry i never knew same location and username were enough to verify someone -.-

 

[Delta Squad]

he claims he thought he wasn't talking to an imposter because they had same username and ip location

I'm sorry i never knew same location and username were enough to verify someone -.-

well yea.. it's hard to fake the IP.

i mean the ip is like what the same town as you? how do we know it wasn't you all along?

I know you are upset you got scammed, but really, you bothed got fooled.

Imho you all should stop using skype >.>

 

[xxnochance]

Support this, should make buyers/sellers more careful and how they confirm

 

Imho you all should stop using skype >.>

I've brought that up before. But it got denied.
In my eyes it causes more trouble than anything else with how easy it is to hack/imposter etc.

 

[Delta Squad]

I've brought that up before. But it got denied.
In my eyes it causes more trouble than anything else with how easy it is to hack/imposter etc.

atleast with msn you can copy the persons name and paste it into search and it will bring up the exact email im not sure if skype does it.


i'm just baffled at how easy people let themselves get fooled.

 

atleast with msn you can copy the persons name and paste it into search and it will bring up the exact email im not sure if skype does it.


i'm just baffled at how easy people let themselves get fooled.

No Skype is terrible for emails.
I searched my email up and 3 Skype accounts came up with the same email address.