Messaging system (not a shoutbox[?])

[MohtasaUnique]

A *minor* drawback if it were made from scratch, but apparently there's a vbulletin plugin that functions in a similar way that Verts mentioned earlier

 

[Tyro]

It's come to my attention that users find it hard to remember to be positive of who they're trading with on sythe.org, and impostors are having a heyday with pretending to be legitimate sythe.org traders. As such, I suggest an integrated personal messaging system that works similarly to MSN, but apart from the PM feature. I suggest a system hosted on a sythe page where your messaging account IS your sythe.org account, and therefore, there is no way to impersonate another user unless you are physically logged onto their sythe.org account.

The system should have features similar to skype and MSN such as:

• Contact management (add, block, grouping, etc.)
• Tabbed conversation windows and auto-refreshing/real-time updates (setting it apart from the private messaging system and giving it much more effectiveness and speed when conducting trades).
• Ability to see whether a user is online or offline their sythe.org account, and likewise appear online or offline to certain users​

It should also have features that sets it apart from MSN:

• Requiring access to your sythe.org account in order to access your messenger account.
• There should be complete-conversation-screenshot features for easy scam reporting in such an unfortunate event.
• Chat logs should have exclusive access granted to staff (perhaps sectionals+, or only global+ only) so that it makes it possible for staff to track illicit activity.​

That's my idea, if you believe it's too similar to a shoutbox (which is featured in the DNS list), feel free to lock this. If you believe it's too similar to the private message system and therefore is utterly redundant and useless, then have your say, but I would disagree with that if all of the features outlined were integrated into the messaging system..

You can do all of that with PMs (just auto-refresh your inbox for real-time updates). It's a nice idea, but might not be worth the hassle.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Read what I said in response to Magic Arrow, he was of the same impression

 

[Magic Arrow]

The IRC is unofficial and is hardly ever used for trades because there is no accessible chatlogs, and it's easy to impersonate someone from sythe.org. Since the point of this suggestion is to provide a safer method for trades to be conducted than MSN, suggesting we just use IRC instead is counterintuitive.

I was suggesting the IRC as a place to talk general, not to trade :S

Yes, we can block and befriend people, but what does this feature do? Hides posts, or adds a + next to their name. If Blocking and added were introduced into a built in IM system, it could instead function as MSN does, as to where people either can or cannot communicate with you over IM. If you're blocked, you obviously cannot communicate, and if you add someone as a friend, then they become easily accessible for contact.

I wanted to highlight that you could block people on the site. I could care less for the buddy feature, I've never used it. Point I was trying to make was you could block people from contacting you.

It's not just that people have to refresh and often lose their momentum in a trade if it's held over PM, it's that PM screenshots are damn near impossible to make sense of when you're doing a scam report as a mod. The nested order of the quotes makes it really annoying to track who says what. Additionally, even though it adds a couple minutes to a trade, people want fast, smooth, streamlined communication when trading. Plus having to sort through an inbox where A high volume of different people are trying to communicate with you is very difficult. You cannot simply sit in a PM and keep refreshing because it doesn't update if someone sends you a new PM. You have to return to your inbox, find the PM, and open it anew, click reply, type out a reply, send, rinse and repeat. It cannot function like MSN because of this, especially if you're a market giant with hundreds of contacts vying for your attention.

Here's where you've lost me. I was not suggesting that PM should be used as a trade proxy, I was saying it could be used as a trade a trade proxy. The fact of the matter is a simple PM stating your MSN will make MSN trading as reliable as your suggestion.

Again, the feature extends into the suggested IM system where you can set "available, away, busy, or offline" to show up both on the forum, and on people's IM contact list built into sythe.

Okay, but you're saying it's for trade, in which case the only two relevant statuses would be online (so you can trade) and offline. How does having the away and busy status help in any way? This returns me to the point that it's a novelty for Sythe frequenters.

When I said you would require access in order to get to your IM profile as well, it was a reduncancy. Since it's hosted on sythe, of course you'd need to be signed on. I was driving home the fact that you NEED to be on an account, and therefore people know 100% who you are (unless you're hacked), and since the entire point of this suggestion is to virtually eliminate the risk of impersonators on 3rd party communication systems, I figured it was prudent to highlight this feature.

Again, a PM clearly stating your MSN is just as safe.

Why make it harder for people to screenshot long conversations? The complete-conversation-screenshot allows for very quick reporting abilities with minimal effort and faster potential response time by moderators.

Okay now you're insulting my intelligence. Are you telling me we should implement this feature to make it more convenient for the scammed to report scams. Taking photos takes a maximum of five minutes (and I mean that's if you're still learning). For a moderator, reading the scam report would take an extra couple of minutes for an EXTENSIVE report.

The only real benefit I see to this trading wise is undeniable proof someone scammed with the chat logs. But I have a very important question. People are used to MSN, and facebook chat. What guarantee do you have that new users (the most common scam victims) are even going to use this feature? We haven't even looked at potential abuses of the system (can't think of any, though I imagine there would be ways).

FYI I'm not totally against it, mainly because I don't care much. I think the idea is useless, I'd much rather a chat box.


BTW I could think of at least a couple more feasible options to reduce scamming. But I do believe that most scams are not due to imposters, but due to things outside the control of the site such as paypal chargebacks and account recoveries. Nothing the site will ever do will be able to counter that other than banning the user.

 

[Tyro]

Read what I said in response to Magic Arrow, he was of the same impression

I'll respond in order to your post segments since I'm on a macbook at work, and this computer is annoying to format bbcode quotes 'n shit with the mousepad.

The IRC is unofficial and is hardly ever used for trades because there is no accessible chatlogs, and it's easy to impersonate someone from sythe.org. Since the point of this suggestion is to provide a safer method for trades to be conducted than MSN, suggesting we just use IRC instead is counterintuitive.

Yes, we can block and befriend people, but what does this feature do? Hides posts, or adds a + next to their name. If Blocking and added were introduced into a built in IM system, it could instead function as MSN does, as to where people either can or cannot communicate with you over IM. If you're blocked, you obviously cannot communicate, and if you add someone as a friend, then they become easily accessible for contact.

It's not just that people have to refresh and often lose their momentum in a trade if it's held over PM, it's that PM screenshots are damn near impossible to make sense of when you're doing a scam report as a mod. The nested order of the quotes makes it really annoying to track who says what. Additionally, even though it adds a couple minutes to a trade, people want fast, smooth, streamlined communication when trading. Plus having to sort through an inbox where A high volume of different people are trying to communicate with you is very difficult. You cannot simply sit in a PM and keep refreshing because it doesn't update if someone sends you a new PM. You have to return to your inbox, find the PM, and open it anew, click reply, type out a reply, send, rinse and repeat. It cannot function like MSN because of this, especially if you're a market giant with hundreds of contacts vying for your attention.

Again, the feature extends into the suggested IM system where you can set "available, away, busy, or offline" to show up both on the forum, and on people's IM contact list built into sythe.

When I said you would require access in order to get to your IM profile as well, it was a reduncancy. Since it's hosted on sythe, of course you'd need to be signed on. I was driving home the fact that you NEED to be on an account, and therefore people know 100% who you are (unless you're hacked), and since the entire point of this suggestion is to virtually eliminate the risk of impersonators on 3rd party communication systems, I figured it was prudent to highlight this feature.

Why make it harder for people to screenshot long conversations? The complete-conversation-screenshot allows for very quick reporting abilities with minimal effort and faster potential response time by moderators.


My opinion on your opinion

Adding someone to your ignore list blocks their PMs. As for reporting, I never found PMs too difficult to follow (and there's even a built-in report button). If you want a better messaging tool, I still think your best bet is to tweak the current PM system. I doubt the admins would have any qualms about adding some javascript to auto-refresh the inbox.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

In order again:

The whole point of this feature isn't for general chatting, it's to replace MSN as a safer and surer way to trade, a method that ensures you're speaking with THE USER you wish to trade with, and not an impostor.

The point isn't about blocking or buddying, that was just a suggested feature to make the feel similar to MSN (and buddying as a feature to group your friends in an easily accessible chat contact group), and therefore people are more comfortable with using it instead of MSN.

This entire suggestion is spawned from users who simply don't want to waste time doing this step to make their trading safer. Implementing this on-site IM system would effectively reduce the number of scams caused by impersonators. I know people don't use PM as a trade conversation method. What they SHOULD do is ask for the MSN on PM and continue to use MSN to chat, but many new users do not do this, and end up getting scammed by impostors. Even many older users forget this step. This new proposed IM system is meant to cut out that step, and provide a Like-MSN service that's entirely safe and convenient.

I added away and busy as an afterthought when I was writing up that response to you, it's not included in the OP so it's not an officially suggested feature, I was just putting up more examples to give you an idea of what I mean.

Again, many people don't do this because they're lazy or they forget, and end up trading with an impostor.

I don't know where you think I'm insulting you, I just don't understand why we should make users take many screenshots as a time (since most conversations are longer than the screen's resolution) when we can easily add in a feature that screenshots it all in one fell swoop. Additionally, it will encourage users to make sufficient scam reports if there's a supported feature of screenshotting the whole conversation rather than copy and pasting the text as per they like to do sometimes. Just another plus of introducing the complete-conversation-screenshot feature

I feel-- just as new facebook users use the on-site chatting system because of it's omnisciousness and easy of use-- so would new users use our IM system if it were equally accessible. I also think Market Giants would be on board because it would reduce the possiblity of having an impostor to virtually 0 if they exclusively use the on-site IM system.

I know you're not arguing for arguments sake, and I actually do appreciate feedback from the other end of this debate. If this suggestion goes through, our conversation only sharpens the concept, maximizing the effectiveness.

I also know that most scamming isn't due to impostors, but if we can implement a simple solution to curb the percent of scamming that IS impostors, I don't see a reason not to try so long as it's done right.



@Tyro, I'm not sure it would be that simple. You wouldn't only have to add an auto-refresh, but you'd also have to change the fact that PMs are not grouped in conversation format. When you reply, the forums simply auto-pastes a quote, and sends the PM as a new message to their inbox rather than an instant message to be updated on a chat window. They're not threaded, in other words

 

[Magic Arrow]

Look, every suggestion is going to have it's pros and cons. I think the suggestion is more of a luxury then a necessity, and going off Richard's history I don't think he'd implement something like this (but hey, he has surprised me before).

I just think if you get scammed because of an imposter, then it's your own fault. Being lazy isn't an excuse, I think it teaches if anything. There are no miracle solutions here, Sythe and scammers will always co-exist. I think educating new members is a much better way than offering protection they're unlikely going to use.

P.S the insult thing was a figure of speech.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

I agree scammers are synonymous with sythe, but I'm still a fool enough to believe I can change the world (aka sythe)! Also, oh good thing, I honestly wasn't sure where I insulted you, I didn't want to by any means :c

 

Support. This would effectively eliminate imposters, which are one of the main ways that newcomers get scammed.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Support. This would effectively eliminate imposters, which are one of the main ways that newcomers get scammed.

I think so too c:

 

[Sypherz]

You can't say that "People should just ask for a PM" or that "People should just be more safe on MSN" and use that as an argument against this suggestion. Because we won't. It's out job to look out for ignorant traders.

 

[Emperor Nero]

You can't say that "People should just ask for a PM" or that "People should just be more safe on MSN" and use that as an argument against this suggestion. Because we won't. It's out job to look out for ignorant traders.

No it's not. The line I have always heard is 'We're not here to hold your hand'.

I have to agree with Magic Arrow. This isn't anything that there isn't a 3rd party resource for. This would be wasting time, money, and server resources that are already highly stressed. (Unless Grave buys the server for it) People who get scammed are 90%+ at fault because of failure to read and learn the correct practices. The only time a scam isn't someone's fault is when a highly trusted person goes 'rogue' if you will and scam. All other scams are easily preventable if you know what to look for.

 

http://www.cometchat.com/ is what I was referring to in earlier posts, for the record. There's several other similar mods as well.

 

[-Ryan]

http://www.cometchat.com/ is what I was referring to in earlier posts, for the record. There's several other similar mods as well.

Now that I see that I support it even more. It would be an awesome feature to have on the site.

 

[DMR]

Would be great to have. I understand it more after seeing the link that Verts posted. Would be a great feature. I can see this attracting new users as well as keeping them.

Support!

 

[Sypherz]

The link Verts posted may be different than the actual product should this be implemented. (May use too much server space)

 

[x339]

The link Verts posted may be different than the actual product should this be implemented. (May use too much server space)

Grave offered to help host it off-site to avoid stress on the server.

 

[Magic Arrow]

You can't say that "People should just ask for a PM" or that "People should just be more safe on MSN" and use that as an argument against this suggestion. Because we won't. It's out job to look out for ignorant traders.

I just did.

Actually your job is to keep the forum clean. >_< >_<

Nobody has yet proven to me that new traders will even use it. :huh:

Preventing scammers is similar to preventing ban evaders, there's always that one proxy that hasn't been used yet. The best thing for the site and the staff is to be reactive to scamming rather than trying to be proactive. It's up to the other trader to be smarter than to be scammed. Again, I think educating new users with a PM explaining the site, or a compulsory video they have to watch explaining the way trades work or w/e would leave us much better off.

Sythe isn't a social network, it's a trading forum.

 

[sl0ta]

Well chat logs could be easily editable ,but :

I suggest to add button "report scammer" into chat ,so when pressed server sends whole chat log to moderator and scammed person explains what happed ,it would be much faster ans safer..
Also good suggestion would be phone and ID verfication before using this system.

 

[Shaaaaun]

Well chat logs could be easily editable ,but :

I suggest to add button "report scammer" into chat ,so when pressed server sends whole chat log to moderator and scammed person explains what happed ,it would be much faster ans safer..
Also good suggestion would be phone and ID verfication before using this system.

I like the option for the RAS part but not the Phone/ID verification.

As, people like me I don't have a personal mobile phone and I'm underage.