To anyone who cares: Why Im leaving/final feedback

You might want to copy this down because I have no doubt that Leanbean will take it down.

This may be a very long post, so if you're not interested turn back now.

I've had a lot of both positive and negative experiences on this website, but overall my time here has been really unique and amazing. I met a lot of cool people and made a lot of friends with similar interests.

Now I'm going to describe what happened this afternoon in the shortest way possible.

>user bogdan spams up my skype everyday with stupid low buy offers for miniranks
>wastes my time 5x a day at least, if not more.
>I decide to amuse myself and kind of troll him because he was getting on my nerves. This is how the conversation went:


I posted this in the SF on one of the bogdan thread because it amused me a bit. Even Richard (Sythe) who saw it didn't seem to have a problem with it.

>I post this same conversation on another thread days later, because bogdan has been persistent at annoying me with his terrible minirank offers.

>Leanbean decides to infract me for this. This is what the infraction says:

>Leanbean and I have a bit of back and forth. I explain that I didn't add him to troll him, he was the one who solicited me over and over. That I'd asked him to fuck off and he didn't, and that I finally did that as a joke. I explained that it was obviously very mild and there is no way it could be seen as flaming/harrassment. And I explained that it was over skype, so it shouldn't even mean a forum infraction.

>Leanbean (who has a problem with me because I called him out when he scammed $2000) basically says too bad, the infraction sticks. I was like wow, you're so pathetic.

>A little while later I screenshot the entire PM exchange, as well as the skype log to Roary. I ask him to help me resolve this/come to a ruling. He goes ahead and reverse the infraction. Although I was overall very frustrated with this whole experience I said thanks for your help. I knew that the ugly (incorrect) mark on my profile would stay but at least it had been reversed.

>20 minutes later Leanbean sees that the infraction is reversed. I get a PM saying "You have received an infraction at sythe.org." This is how the infraction reads His reasoning was because I called him "pathetic." Apparently calling a staff member pathetic in a PRIVATE message is flaming/discriminatory...

>I went to Roary again, and he decided that a) he didn't want to bother with it anymore and b) that technically it could fall under that roll.

As you can imagine this entire thing was a very frustrating situation. Basically I got a bs infraction from a mod who was butthurt that he didn't get his way. His ruling was very far from objective, and very unprofessional imo.

The reasons that I'm leaving are.

1) Staff can get away with this bullshit without any kind of repercussion, real review, or approval. There is no good way to dispute infractions except playing tag over PM or skype. If the users infraction gets reversed they can just seek something else to infract you for.

2) Apparently something as minor as calling someone "pathetic" when they're being a dick is "flaming." I don't care to tread on eggshells every time I interact with anyone here. I don't even want to be on a website where that is enough for the staff to take punitive action against you.

3) I don't want to look at my profile every time and see those ugly marks for something I didn't do. I don't want other staff to look and see the same.

This might seem like a comparatively minor situation, as at the end of the day it doesn't really have an impact on my ability to use sythe. But regardless it was still upsetting to me, and after going through that I don't really have any desire to use sythe anymore. I don't want to be absolutely powerless against a staff members bias. I don't like that there are no systems in place to effectively prevent it from happening.

Now for my actual feedback:

1) There needs to be some kind of system to get rid of a bad staff member. Some kind of community approval rating, or official complaint system where it can be seen which staff member has the most complaints about them. A spike in complaints suddenly would be something to look at.

2) Staff members shouldn't have the attitude that they're "ruling over" everyone else. Infractions need to be issued more sparingly, and reversed more easily. There needs to be a way to dispute them, etc. Only used for example against a user who has been spamming continuously and has been asked to stop but won't. It really negatively impacts the end user experience to receive infractions for very small things, and makes them less likely to stick around.

3) The definition of flaming needs to be relaxed. Calling someone pathetic isn't the nicest thing to say surely, but it isn't flaming.

Flaming "You faggot cunt, I'll fucking kill you bitch"
Not flaming. Wow man, that's really pathetic :/

4) Infractions that are reversed need to disappear. Not just sit there and say reversed. Because in a month, it just changes to "expired" and no one has any idea if they were reversed or not. I know they're mainly used as a mechanism to issue a temporary ban for small infractions that build up, but if they're reversed there is no reason they can't just disappear.


This whole situation (and others before it) just really left me with a bad taste in my mouth, to the point where I really don't see myself wanting to be a part of this anymore. So I'll see you guys, I'll be on skype for a few days if any of you want my new skype.

I understand if this just seems bitchey, it probably will. I apologize for that. I hope that things do improve for the sake of the sites health.

#FREEDD

Much sadness, very moderator abuse, pls no leaverino.

Just so we don't have wires crossed, it's not that I said "I cba to deal with it any more" or whatever way it was said. I could see all involved were getting heated and tried to keep a laid back, jokey attitude in order to keep everyone calm (I thought y'all would catch on to the humour); if that came across as not caring I apologise.

What I do say is that disrespecting staff can be done very easily and it's at that mods discretion what an insult is. I thought the second infraction was at his discretion and I didn't agree to remove it. Maybe he did have negative feelings towards you and that's why it was done but that's the way the cookie ceumbles; some days mods will infract for something they wouldn't have yesterday etc. I told you the next port of call was Sythe/Govind/Matthew if you still felt it was unwarranted.

Sad to see you're throwing in the towel over such a small ordeal and I hope you rethink your decision when you're a little less heated about it all

First, I don't spam you 5x times or more a day. I work 5 days a week. I offered you $20-$25 each for 3 of your miniranks
[9/10/2014 9:52:30 PM] Bogdan123: weed minirank $25
[9/10/2014 9:52:47 PM] Bogdan123: cool kid $21
[9/10/2014 9:53:04 PM] Bogdan123: Voluntaryist $20
I have that on skype.

which you seem to think were lowball, and then you go and sell them for around $15-$20 each, today lol.

In the process you go around trolling me, which is ok in the spam forum but outside the spam forum is not ok!

2nd if i were getting on your nerves you could have easily blocked me on skype. Which I've done to you.

I never said "too bad the infraction stays" I explained why I gave you the infraction and you flamed me in every message starting with the first message you sent me. It wasn't just calling me pathetic (which you did in the very first PM) you had a poor attitude regarding the matter from the start.

Bogdan contacting you and giving shit offers doesn't mean you should contact him with fake offers pretending to sell ranks to him just to get a negative reaction.

Umm.. Honestly, this should really stay in the spam forum. I understand you're upset or whatever but it really seems like you're going out of your way to troll people. We can get crazy in the spam forum, but it doesn't always mean that we need to pursue it out of the spam forum. You took the whole bogdan situation too far. It's your own fault for getting stuck in this mess.

EDIT: Honestly, I doubt bogdan contacted you 5 times a day also. No need to over exaggerate situation for sympathy.. You're responsible for all the actions you took.

EDIT #2: Read your response underneath and understand now that you're talking specifically about the infraction system. I can see why you're upset but I feel that the context of the whole situation was altered to make it seem more reasonable towards yourself. I doubt leanbean would have infracted you for something so trivial; he also says you spammed him? If you do ever read this, maybe you should try and look at the whole situation objectively and if it still doesn't make sense maybe you can leave more detailed feedback that would be clearer in its intentions..

Roary said:

Just so we don't have wires crossed, it's not that I said "I cba to deal with it any more" or whatever way it was said. I could see all involved were getting heated and tried to keep a laid back, jokey attitude in order to keep everyone calm (I thought y'all would catch on to the humour); if that came across as not caring I apologise.

What I do say is that disrespecting staff can be done very easily and it's at that mods discretion what an insult is. I thought the second infraction was at his discretion and I didn't agree to remove it. Maybe he did have negative feelings towards you and that's why it was done but that's the way the cookie ceumbles; some days mods will infract for something they wouldn't have yesterday etc. I told you the next port of call was Sythe/Govind/Matthew if you still felt it was unwarranted.

Sad to see you're throwing in the towel over such a small ordeal and I hope you rethink your decision when you're a little less heated about it all

Click to expand...

"That's just the way the cookie crumbles on that day" is an absolutely unacceptable answer anyway you look at it.

One of the things I'm leaving feedback on is the fact that the staff has this attitude that they're better than anyone else. If I say "you're pathetic" or "I don't like you" or "your decision was terrible" it falls into "the mods discretion." Like they're some fucking magical group that no one can be critical of in any way. And no one higher up will interfere because "its their discretion." If you speak out against it you just get gangbanged with infractions. That's whats so fucked up, and why I'm definitely going to be leaving and not looking back as quickly as possible.

Roary, I think you're a nice guy. But you have to honestly be blind if you think that infraction was warranted. He gave me infraction, right after he sees that it was overturned he gave me another one. He was just seeking to be a dickhead and pin me with something.

bogdan123 said:

First, I don't spam you 5x times or more a day. I work 5 days a week. I offered you $20-$25 each for 3 of your miniranks
[9/10/2014 9:52:30 PM] Bogdan123: weed minirank $25
[9/10/2014 9:52:47 PM] Bogdan123: cool kid $21
[9/10/2014 9:53:04 PM] Bogdan123: Voluntaryist $20
I have that on skype.

which you seem to think were lowball, and then you go and sell them for around $15-$20 each, today lol.

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This really isn't about you, its about leanbean. I just used our conversations as context. That was your last offer, and it wasn't as bad as the others but it was still a lowball offer.

I was talking about at first when you offered me $5 for cool kid, because that's the same time period that the conversation happened.

bogdan123 said:

In the process you go around trolling me, which is ok in the spam forum but outside the spam forum is not ok!

2nd if i were getting on your nerves you could have easily blocked me on skype. Which I've done to you.

Click to expand...

Shit talking on skype isn't against sythe rules, leanbean fucked up and infracted me unjustifiably. You could have blocked me, which you did and that's fine. I'm just pissed that he can just come up with an excuse to infract me because his decision got overturned.


It goes to show how absolutely shitty the infraction system is really. You get an infraction, alright. You dispute it with someone higher up and they reverse it. A mod can just find a reason to re-infract you (and trust me, every user has SOMETHING on sythe they could be infracted for).

@Richard and another else who has decision making power, I suggest you actually look at the feedback section of my rant and take it seriously. You're going to turn users away.

It really is better the way I suggested. To be given out more infrequently, disappear when reversed, and be disputed in a formal manner like bans instead of being up to one or two fucking people in private under no scrutiny from anyone else.

Honestly, this isn't worth a second more of my time. You can try and prove that I'm wrong or argue back and forth or have a giant orgy for all I care.

Logged out, deleted my 2FA on my phone, deleted my backup code. Fix your shit or watch the site degrade to nothing.

We can't have sensitive moderators running this site. If you are offended by words of text, it's time to get off the internet.

DD, come back when there is a reform in staff positions. There has been too many mistakes without proper consequences.

Rip another active member of the community.

No one was being "sensitive", no ones feelings got hurt. The rules were enforced on a user who was flaming trying to upset another user outside of the spam forum whether they succeeded or not.

leanbean901 said:

No one was being "sensitive", no ones feelings got hurt. The rules were enforced on a user who was flaming trying to upset another user outside of the spam forum whether they succeeded or not.

Click to expand...

Since when is flaming on skype a breach of the rules on sythe.org? It's a separate entity.

Regardless, it's not flaming. It's light hearted trolling at best.






Replying to your posts on your feedback thread:

leanbean901 said:

Maybe he'll think twice next time before flaming or harassing someone outside of the spam forum who doesn't want to participate in that sort of thing outside of the spam forum. Fendle was temp banned for doing the same thing as the first infraction to a live chat so to me the first one was warranted as well.

Click to expand...

Bogdan was actively participating, posting several gifs taunting Darkest Dream afterwards. He's also called him a cock sucking faggot, etc. In doing so he's not exempt from anything, he's actively participating and open to roasting.

leanbean901 said:

The infraction wasn't about the spam forum it was about him contacting bogdan pretending to sell ranks just to get a negative reaction. If anything that's being childish, me giving out an infraction where I believe someone is breaking or pushing a rule isn't childish.

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Bogdan is the one approaching Darkest Dream, not the other way around as you claim. He wasn't pretending to sell, in case you haven't realized he has sold his mini-ranks, his intent to sell was real but as you can expect, wouldn't settle for being low-balled.

If you're unable to see that you enforced the rule incorrectly, then something is wrong. Roary reversed the infraction because skype is exempt from that specific ruling. Then in spite of not getting your way you infract him for calling you pathetic. If "no feelings were hurt", you wouldn't infract him for something that isn't nearly offensive as you make it out to be.

Jack Goff said:

Since when is flaming on skype a breach of the rules on sythe.org? It's a separate entity.

Regardless, it's not flaming. It's light hearted trolling at best.

Click to expand...

Fendle was temp banned for doing the same thing to a live chat in the past but the infraction for DD was reversed.

Jack Goff said:

Bogdan was actively participating, posting several gifs taunting Darkest Dream afterwards. He's also called him a cock sucking faggot, etc. In doing so he's not exempt from anything, he's actively participating and open to roasting.

Bogdan is the one approaching Darkest Dream, not the other way around as you claim. He wasn't pretending to sell, in case you haven't realized he has sold his mini-ranks, his intent to sell was real but as you can expect, wouldn't settle for being low-balled.

Click to expand...

Posting gifs on a thread in the spam forum isn't a form of flaming. DD was just pretending to sell the ranks and once a price was decided he tried saying bogdan had to go first or get a MM. He was pretending to sell the ranks to bogdan when he wasn't planning on selling them to him just to piss him off and waste his time.

Ghast said:

If you're unable to see that you enforced the rule incorrectly, then something is wrong. Roary reversed the infraction because skype is exempt from that specific ruling. Then in spite of not getting your way you infract him for calling you pathetic. If "no feelings were hurt", you wouldn't infract him for something that isn't nearly offensive as you make it out to be.

Click to expand...

There was other things he said in the PMs that could be considered flaming. He's just trying to flip things to try and get his way. This isn't the first "goodbye sythe" thread he has made either.

The live chat was a system established within the site, skype is not.

Can you provide the offensive words that could make his infraction justified?

leanbean901 said:

Posting gifs on a thread in the spam forum isn't a form of flaming. DD was just pretending to sell the ranks and once a price was decided he tried saying bogdan had to go first or get a MM. He was pretending to sell the ranks to bogdan when he wasn't planning on selling them to him just to piss him off and waste his time.

Click to expand...

The gifs are only a supporting part, Bogdan actively posts in the SF. In fact, he's posted 6 times in there today.

Not to mention both DD and I have told bogdan we don't like his offers multiple times. The entire conversation was literally over in 5 minutes, hardly time wasting.

leanbean901 said:

There was other things he said in the PMs that could be considered flaming. He's just trying to flip things to try and get his way. This isn't the first "goodbye sythe" thread he has made either.

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If you say so.

You can criticise someone or a decision they make without attacking the person

After not responding to him he PMed me saying "stop ddosing me" only trying to troll me even more. At the end of the day it's an infraction. If a user wants to leave over an infraction where they could have addressed the situation of the first infraction differently and avoided the second infraction then so be it.

Let me get this straight. Calling a staff member "pathetic", which also means "you suck" in the worst way of interpretation renders an infraction?

I'm sorry for not being sorry. Your defense is just an excuse to justify your actions. I'm still not seeing how you can infract him for saying you suck and not feel offended.

- Posting purposely to anger or to elicit a negative response from others for fun, humor, or to cause drama.

He could have addressed the situation differently and avoided the infraction. It's not the end of the world.

Do you expect someone to be calm after you make a wrong decision that affects them, and after that is cleared, make another one?

As a staff member you should search for ways to make both parties satisfied in any situation. You don't fuel the problem with unnecessary actions.

I thought staff were suppose to be mediators that held integrity for all users no matter what happened in the past.

I don't expect anyone to act a certain way, but if they break the rules I'll enforce them. The second infraction was warranted and I felt the first one was needed so people would stop posting on bogdans sales threads flaming him, ruining his sales and trolling him outside of the spam forum regarding his rank sales.