Pardons

LoLSmurfin · Aug 9, 2014

I decided to drop the bogus politeness from this and rewrite it to leave honest feedback.

The fact that certain pardons are even remotely considered is a joke.

People's previous status on Sythe/RS/etc. or financial position should not have any effect on their pardon's outcome. They should be treated no better than the lying, scamming, blackhatting blemishes on humanity that they are. This applies to past pardons, like JohnG's - so it's not a direct personal attack at anyone - but it's obviously relevant again in the case of iZinc/BigBoiBets.

It boggles my mind that he's actually got supports on his pardon. I personally question the integrity of every single moderator who is willing to put their name down on behalf of someone so slimy and underhanded in the face of his blatant abuse of the rules of Sythe.org. If you're going to throw the law of the land you're supposed to be upholding out the window, at least try to pretend you're not doing so. Have some discretion, maybe. I'm disgusted with all of you.

Wonderland · Aug 9, 2014

The pardon system is essentially a gamble. You're unable to determine who is deserving of returning, but we seem to have a soft spot for scammers over any other type of offender. The whole system is bogus because you can scam, pay back and eventually over time come back to possibly do the same thing. It gives scammers a backbone to scam. We need to add a fee to pardon (One time payment) if you previously scammed so these fuckers don't break even.

Chris · Aug 9, 2014

Ghast said:
The pardon system is essentially a gamble. You're unable to determine who is deserving of returning, but we seem to have a soft spot for scammers over any other type of offender. The whole system is bogus because you can scam, pay back and eventually over time come back to possibly do the same thing. It gives scammers a backbone to scam. We need to add a fee to pardon (One time payment) if you previously scammed so these fuckers don't break even.

I agree with the fee idea, I think it should be percent based tho, cuz there's a big difference between scamming $5 and $5,000.

@OP: Like Ghast said, you don't know who's legit and who just wants to come back and scam more. I think it's needed, just because you make one mistake doesn't mean you should be punished forever.

Laptop65 · Aug 9, 2014

The one big flaw I've noticed with the pardon system is the waiting game.

Get perm banned and most of the staff hate you? Come back in 1+ year(s) when it's likely that nearly all of the current staff will have resigned / gone inactive / possibly banned, write up a sob story with "there was so much shit going on I just got caught up in it all". The new staff won't really know you, will feel sorry for you and will just support you for an unban.

I'm not saying the pardon system should go 100%, but there needs to be some sort of change to it that makes it more fair for everyone that tries to pardon.

funbox · Aug 9, 2014

Ghast said:
The pardon system is essentially a gamble. You're unable to determine who is deserving of returning, but we seem to have a soft spot for scammers over any other type of offender. The whole system is bogus because you can scam, pay back and eventually over time come back to possibly do the same thing. It gives scammers a backbone to scam. We need to add a fee to pardon (One time payment) if you previously scammed so these fuckers don't break even.

An example of who can't be trusted is Coin King.
He neglected his own account safety, argued with an admin about how secure his account was and used the leanbean on around 6 oh the reports of his "hacker" scamming.
even if he does come back and refund the users, what verification is there going to be that he won't get "hacked" again but for a larger amount of money.

LoLSmurfin · Aug 9, 2014

I feel like any scam pardons that are successful should force the creation of a brand new account with the inability to reference vouches received on their original account pre-scam.

S · Aug 9, 2014

LoLSmurfin said:
I feel like any scam pardons that are successful should force the creation of a brand new account with the inability to reference vouches received on their original account pre-scam.

Why would anyone do that? Would simply result in ban evasion.

Also, the point of a Pardon is that users are forgiven for what they have done. Taking all their achievements away just shows that we don't trust them, and thus why pardon them.

funbox · Aug 9, 2014

SellerMan said:
Why would anyone do that? Would simply result in ban evasion.

Also, the point of a Pardon is that users are forgiven for what they have done. Taking all their achievements away just shows that we don't trust them, and thus why pardon them.

How are capable of trusting someone that they won't scam, when they have already proved you wrong. (hence why they where banned.)

LoLSmurfin · Aug 9, 2014

SellerMan said:
Why would anyone do that? Would simply result in ban evasion.

Also, the point of a Pardon is that users are forgiven for what they have done. Taking all their achievements away just shows that we don't trust them, and thus why pardon them.

They threw all of their own achievements away by literally robbing someone.

Blade · Aug 9, 2014

If we remove pardons they'll just vade anyway. Most vade during their bans, pardon, and then return now anyway.

Oh well, that's Sythe.

S · Aug 9, 2014

funbox said:
How are capable of trusting someone that they won't scam, when they have already proved you wrong. (hence why they where banned.)

If we support someone's pardon, it's generally because we hope and trust that they have truly changed. We don't pardon people with stipulations to follow anymore (i,e twc/market ban), and thus removing their achievements is a stipulation.

Chris · Aug 9, 2014

funbox said:
How are capable of trusting someone that they won't scam, when they have already proved you wrong. (hence why they where banned.)

So if you fuck up once you should never be forgiven? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wont I Don't Bot need to pardon if he comes back? As he technically scammed someone $20 or whatever the amount was. If I'm correct then situations like these are why we need pardons too.

funbox · Aug 9, 2014

SellerMan said:
If we support someone's pardon, it's generally because we hope and trust that they have truly changed. We don't pardon people with stipulations to follow anymore (i,e twc/market ban), and thus removing their achievements is a stipulation.

Example.

User A had 500 Vouches
User A scams 2B Eocgp (1000$ish) now, with full proof not hacked etc. He, scammed.
User A returns, saying he refunded the user 2B when the gp crashed to 40c/m(800$)
User A makes 200$ profit, and should be trusted as if nothing happened?

You're stating, that he should be trusted as much as having 500 vouches after scamming?

MrEvilPwns said:
So if you fuck up once you should never be forgiven? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wont I Don't Bot need to pardon if he comes back? As he technically scammed someone $20 or whatever the amount was. If I'm correct then situations like these are why we need pardons too.

You define fucking up, as robbing someone? For me, if you've scammed you dun goofed as it's your fault. If people get banned for being hacked, and till they repay i don't mind them coming back. but if a person, let's take TJOC for an example. After he scammed 2 green phats, he comes saying "oh i'm sorry for scamming , i'll refund plz unban" thus he can be trusted back into the community?

Also, maybe i didn't specify. I'm referring to scamming as in Proven they are scamming. Not being hacked (proof needed), not infraction bans, not for posting irl pics or whatever else.

Edit; To evil, if you robbed someone in real life if convicted, you will go to jail unless somebody pays your bail, correct?
Why should someone be able to pardon without paying anything and suffered no consequences ?

My idea would be making a fee to pardon, so Richard can gain a small amount of money (not saying some outrageous shit like 100$, but let's say 10$) and the user will have to refund victims + pay to pardon, thus costing him as a punishment.

krutoi · Aug 9, 2014

funbox said:
Example.

User A had 500 Vouches
User A scams 2B Eocgp (1000$ish) now, with full proof not hacked etc. He, scammed.
User A returns, saying he refunded the user 2B when the gp crashed to 40c/m(800$)
User A makes 200$ profit, and should be trusted as if nothing happened?

You're stating, that he should be trusted as much as having 500 vouches after scamming?

You define fucking up, as robbing someone? For me, if you've scammed you dun goofed as it's your fault. If people get banned for being hacked, and till they repay i don't mind them coming back. but if a person, let's take TJOC for an example. After he scammed 2 green phats, he comes saying "oh i'm sorry for scamming , i'll refund plz unban" thus he can be trusted back into the community?

Also, maybe i didn't specify. I'm referring to scamming as in Proven they are scamming. Not being hacked (proof needed), not infraction bans, not for posting irl pics or whatever else.

Edit; To evil, if you robbed someone in real life if convicted, you will go to jail unless somebody pays your bail, correct?
Why should someone be able to pardon without paying anything and suffered no consequences ?

My idea would be making a fee to pardon, so Richard can gain a small amount of money (not saying some outrageous shit like 100$, but let's say 10$) and the user will have to refund victims + pay to pardon, thus costing him as a punishment.

So, you're saying that if a "scammer" comes by and scams someone, he must agree to repay the scammed ones and pay an extra fee of $10 just because that would be like some sort of a punishment? So, if a scammer scams $8.000, he must pay $8.000 + $10 to be able to join this community and show his legitmacy by doing such stupid thing? Are you serious? This point is so bad... And what if you got banned just because "some admin thought you were some hacker/scammer because of your paypal and/or skype name?" you should pay an extra fee just because you got banned "by doing shit"?

funbox · Aug 9, 2014

krutoi said:
So, you're saying that if a "scammer" comes by and scams someone, he must agree to repay the scammed ones and pay an extra fee of $10 just because that would be like some sort of a punishment? So, if a scammer scams $8.000, he must pay $8.000 + $10 to be able to join this community and show his legitmacy by doing such stupid thing? Are you serious? This point is so bad... And what if you got banned just because "some admin thought you were some hacker/scammer because of your paypal and/or skype name?" you should pay an extra fee just because you got banned "by doing shit"?

Not sure if you're capable to read, or you just read the last statement.

"Also, maybe i didn't specify. I'm referring to scamming as in Proven they are scamming. Not being hacked (proof needed), not infraction bans, not for posting irl pics or whatever else."

Can't make it any more bold. And if it was me, now thinking about it further, it would be more fair to add a % of the amount scammed as a fee to the pardon. 5% fee, if you scam 100$ you'll pay 5$ to pardon. If you scam 5000$ you'll need to pay 250$.

Why? If you're legitly sorry for scamming a high amount, then you would be willing to pay the fine.

Again, I'm referring to proven scammers, not "staff mistakes" "infraction bans" other rules etc"

scamming.

krutoi · Aug 9, 2014

funbox said:
Not sure if you're capable to read, or you just read the last statement.

"Also, maybe i didn't specify. I'm referring to scamming as in Proven they are scamming. Not being hacked (proof needed), not infraction bans, not for posting irl pics or whatever else."

Can't make it any more bold. And if it was me, now thinking about it further, it would be more fair to add a % of the amount scammed as a fee to the pardon. 5% fee, if you scam 100$ you'll pay 5$ to pardon. If you scam 5000$ you'll need to pay 250$.

Why? If you're legitly sorry for scamming a high amount, then you would be willing to pay the fine.

Again, I'm referring to proven scammers, not "staff mistakes" "infraction bans" other rules etc"

scamming.

This won't be taken far and as much as im concerned, this will be a denied "suggest". Also, if you're capable to read what i wrote it clearly says that Sythe won't do it that way, this is just gettin' out of context, this might be a "good suggest" but a bad one aswell since sythe's rules aren't like that. Nevertheless I would like to state that if some sort of guy would scam more than $1.000 dollars then all of the "requests and pardons" shouldn't be allowed, and a perma ban would be perfect for these kind of cases since he was aware of the amount of money scammed during the trade. I got your point but I wouldn't even listen to people who have scammed thousands of bucks just because the greedy could with them. That's just bad and that's why the should be punished for.

funbox · Aug 9, 2014

krutoi said:
This won't be taken far and as much as im concerned, this will be a denied "suggest". Also, if you're capable to read what i wrote it clearly says that Sythe won't do it that way, this is just gettin' out of context, this might be a "good suggest" but a bad one aswell since sythe's rules aren't like that. Nevertheless I would like to state that if some sort of guy would scam more than $1.000 dollars then all of the "requests and pardons" shouldn't be allowed, and a perma ban would be perfect for these kind of cases since he was aware of the amount of money scammed during the trade. I got your point but I wouldn't even listen to people who have scammed thousands of bucks just because the greedy could with them. That's just bad and that's why the should be punished for.

http://www.sythe.org/suggestions/1445207-do-not-suggest-list.html

Nowhere in the do-not-suggest list.
And although I know that 99.9% nothing will change, there's always the .1% that it might.

better be optimistic then pessimistic.

Wonderland · Aug 9, 2014

SellerMan said:
If we support someone's pardon, it's generally because we hope and trust that they have truly changed. We don't pardon people with stipulations to follow anymore (i,e twc/market ban), and thus removing their achievements is a stipulation.

What kind of achievements?

Don't trust scammers lul

Chris · Aug 15, 2014

funbox said:
Example.

User A had 500 Vouches
User A scams 2B Eocgp (1000$ish) now, with full proof not hacked etc. He, scammed.
User A returns, saying he refunded the user 2B when the gp crashed to 40c/m(800$)
User A makes 200$ profit, and should be trusted as if nothing happened?

You're stating, that he should be trusted as much as having 500 vouches after scamming?

You define fucking up, as robbing someone? For me, if you've scammed you dun goofed as it's your fault. If people get banned for being hacked, and till they repay i don't mind them coming back. but if a person, let's take TJOC for an example. After he scammed 2 green phats, he comes saying "oh i'm sorry for scamming , i'll refund plz unban" thus he can be trusted back into the community?

Also, maybe i didn't specify. I'm referring to scamming as in Proven they are scamming. Not being hacked (proof needed), not infraction bans, not for posting irl pics or whatever else.
Your saying the only type of pardons are for scammers? You can be pardoned for other things too.

Edit; To evil, if you robbed someone in real life if convicted, you will go to jail unless somebody pays your bail, correct?
Why should someone be able to pardon without paying anything and suffered no consequences ?

My idea would be making a fee to pardon, so Richard can gain a small amount of money (not saying some outrageous shit like 100$, but let's say 10$) and the user will have to refund victims + pay to pardon, thus costing him as a punishment.

You know you can be pardoned for things other then scamming. But for know let's just talk about a scammer trying to get pardoned. Say I'm an immature 11-13 year old, and I scam like $50. Your saying a few years later when I've matured, I can't pay the user back as I've realized that scamming is bad?

Aesiir · Aug 15, 2014

If someone wants to pardon, make them donate $25 to be SVU.
There, done.

EDIT: Make them 2 Factor verify their Sythe. Make them use phone authentication for their Skype. If you scam, you should be forced to make your account secure so you can't pull out a bogus "I got hacked" scam and then you can also have their personal information on hand.

EDIT #2: Honestly, I feel like anyone that knows about how easy 2FA is and doesn't do it, is just keeping their window open for a potential scam down the line..

Pardons

More options

LoLSmurfin

Gonna need AT LEAST three more dads.

spokesman

Chris

Formerly known as MrEvilPwns

Laptop65

Hero

funbox

Grand Master

LoLSmurfin

Gonna need AT LEAST three more dads.

S

noobies

funbox

Grand Master

LoLSmurfin

Gonna need AT LEAST three more dads.

tfw 2hi lmao

S

noobies

Chris

Formerly known as MrEvilPwns

funbox

Grand Master

krutoi

Guru

funbox

Grand Master

krutoi

Guru

funbox

Grand Master

spokesman

Chris

Formerly known as MrEvilPwns

Aesiir

The Infamous Spam Forum Queen.

Similar threads