Raising minimum wage -- $15/hr fast food emplyees

Another good example of your types of argument. This isn't about abolishing food stamps. Why use a situation that won't happen?

 

This breaks down to each individual person. Somebody who uses their money from working to feed bad habits? sure.


Youd be suprised how much money somebody can save off not buying chips, or a pack of smokes.

 

The fact your argument is aimed at keeping people having to use state funds to feed themselves is fucking stupid.

 

All of this has to be looked at separately,

Obviously where I live you can live comfortably on minimum wage, with some money for savings, and that's assuming you live by yourself.

Maybe give me some statistics of standard of living where you are and I could see from your point of view.

 

Assuming you live by yourself isn't really the issue I'm trying to protect, it's the people who have dependents are the ones I want this change for.

Ghast already provided me with living calculators that proved people supporting more than 1 dependent on minimum wage are below the poverty barrier.

But as for my area, minimum wage is £6.50

..some maths later..

Leaves someone full-time with ~£731.25 after tax.

For a flat around here you're looking at a minimum £300pcm, for a house minimum around £400pcm.

Council tax averages ~£80pcm

Utilities are ~ £120pcm

So without any luxuries what-so-ever you're looking at paying out ~ £500 minimum just to have a studio flat and no luxuries. Then you have to feed yourself, and your dependents if that's the case. As well as commute which will cost if you're outside a walking distance.


But alternatively to this, and in most cases is what people do. Is claim benefits where you'll see about £300 on top of that wage. Not much incentive to work when you'll be worse off..

 

Most people who have dependants are living with more than one person in the house so they split costs for things like rent ect.


also does your goverment not provide people who have dependants with money?

 

They already do. You can't change that and just remove welfare now that it's already out.

How about addressing why you used removing food stamps to see if people would survive as an example, when that clearly isn't going to happen regardless of what happens to the bill. Good attempt to turn things on me and evade the initial question. So why use an example of a situation that won't happen as your argument?

 

You have to qualify, and by qualifying you have to be working less than 16 hours per week. As for others, you can claim child tax credits which is around £80 per month.

In a lot of cases, you will find that is the case. But while doing so you also find that for two people to work with children under the age of school nursery will have to fork out over £700 a month to work full-time to have their child minded by private nurseries. And I'm not exaggerating. My partner does not work because of this day light robbery. So that being the case, only one parent can really work, and if you're a lone parent you're pretty screwed without benefits. But as the children reach the age of free schooling then you are right, both parents can then provide thus doubling that income.

I used it as an example because you provided a death toll for starvation based on the current minimum wage. Yet you didn't provide it based on the current minimum wage as you are taking into account what they receive on benefits and food stamps.

It doesn't take much of a rational thinking person to appreciate that someone working full-time shouldn't then have to receive benefits to 'survive'.

 

Why would you want to provide an example that we know isn't happening? What's the point? You cannot even consider it happening.

What I'm hearing now is you don't want people depending on benefits. So abolish it and raise minimum wage. Let's screw the people who cannot support their big family on $11-15 (assuming minimum wage increases) an hour. Your whole argument has been not wanting those people to depend on it right? Is that why you gave abolishing food stamps and handouts as an example?

People who stopped arguing with you didn't stop because you convinced them. Don't for a second believe that. There's good reason to if you haven't noticed.

 

I have noticed, and I haven't been arguing in many cases. Where did you get that I want to abolish food stamps and benefits from? I quite clearly said that people working full-time shouldn't have to be on them. I told you to take them away from your again flawed formula for starvation death-tolls and see if it be any different.

The argument was that people cannot survive without the benefits and or food stamps, you then provided me with a death toll based on people surviving whilst on benefits and food stamps, which in any sense of debate is pretty idiotic.

Half the time my questions go unanswered, and if people find my questions intolerable and do not wish to debate with me then they are quite welcome to avoid my stupidity.

However, you just seem to post to insult rather than add any value to the topic. I may of hit a nerve with you, and if that's the case I apologize. I was merely trying to have a discussion regardless of how frustrating it was either end of our network.

I'm here to debate, not fight.

 

I provided one because you said that people cannot survive on $8 an hour. When they are doing so, just with food stamps.

You didn't hit a nerve, and it's not your stupidity. Don't take it the wrong way, it's the way you are debating. It honestly appears to me like you're throwing anything and seeing what sticks. You cannot take into consideration some of their arguments, it feels like you're more of a yes or no, no in between where you and the other person meets half way to come to an agreement.

Can we just end the debate at we both would support an increase, maybe not to $15, but enough for the employees to live a more comfortable life even if they receive handouts and food stamps. Right now there are people that would be lucky to save a couple of dollars a month from what they earn. Increasing it by $3-4 an hour will change their lives.

We chose to argue over the small details like food stamps and whatnot, instead of looking at the big picture. I'm also at fault for not just coming to this conclusion earlier.

 

No I cant but what the fuck does that have to do with ANYTHING pertinent to the topic?

I do not subscribe to such a theory. I managed to get away from minimum wage and other low paying work independently. It wasnt "hard" per se either, just hard work. There are ALWAYS options to those who are ambitious enough to look for them. My family is not a particularly sucessful one, those who are sucessful are entirely self made.

Ive managed to go from a minimum wage job with no discernable skills and a HS education to learning a trade quickly rising through the ranks to journeyman and running a crew while putting myself through college (although slowly and not continuously) with NO help from my family in just a few years.

If I can do it so can other people. I think the real issue is people are content with mediocrity and thus stay poor.

 

I had a nice conversation with a Taco Bell employee yesterday and she said she loved the job. She didn't give any complaints, granted we were in a Taco Bell at the time. If the pay really was too low, people wouldn't be willing to settle for it. Take the initiative, or just take your check.

 

The theory does not include your success story. The theory is based on families in poverty. But regardless, okay.

Only just seen this, I think you're right. I'm getting wrapped up in the details when any sort of increase would be a benefit. I'm glad we can come to an agreement.

 

Wages should be increased, fucking mcdonalds in america is so cheap..

 

I agree with this completely. Heck the cost of living is quite high in the United States, I believe the minimum wage employees deserve a raise.

 

But it's not that hard to put a bun on some fake meat

 

"Deserve a raise" is quite different than "We will force you to pay x$ to every person you employ under threat of coercion."

Raising minimum wage is bad for the job market, and bad for innovation etc, not to mention immoral.

 

what?

this is how life currently works. survival instincts like hunting yourself no longer work. you must work to receive paper to trade for food.

the more paper you get the better off you are.

 

No way i save lives daily if you flip burgers and make as much as i do. especially at such a low quality then our worlds are collapsing before we see