Trumps proposal for Temp Muslim Ban

I'll go ahead and put my 2 cents in here... But I'd like to see others' thoughts and why or why not you agree with me.


I believe it'd a good thing IF it's played out like they've said it will and here's my reasoning -

Trump claims if he did this, it would NOT affect muslims already living in America. I'm not fully sure how it would affect the refugees, but honestly, I think they should be shipped out, I don't think they should be here in the first place.

Our veterans, our elders, they're the ones that deserve free housing. And until we are capable of taking care of our own people, helping the homeless find homes, we have no business taking care of refugees. So they need to go...


Back to the Ban issue...

I'm not going to sit here and preach that all muslims are evil and shouldn't be allowed to be in our country... Because that's simply not true. If you think that, you should pay close attention to this next part - Less than 20% of Muslims support ISIS.

Now, I've done my fair share of crying and whining, especially here on sythe... But we are a failure as a generation... We love everything too much, get offended by everything too much, and are far too soft. We need "safe places" because "words hurt"... And that's just bull shit.

Lets take a trip back to the 40s for a second... Do you think EVERY Japanese person between 1939 and 1945 was a kamikaze pilot? FUCK NO. Yes, more Japanese supported the Nazis than Muslims support ISIS, but we did a lot more than a temporary ban on them too...

According to Trump's proposal, Muslims who are already here are fine. This will not affect them AT ALL. When we banned the Japanese during WWII, the ones who lived here were either forced to leave or forced to live in camps where they were probably not treated much better than the jews at the nazi camps... And that was okay! As a nation we HATED all Japanese people for the duration of the war, which I think is okay... We were at war with them! (those who continued to hold the grudge after the way, I do not agree with)

In the 40s, America was a stronger country... People weren't literally scared to hurt someone's feelings... And so with the risk of Japanese people being a threat, no one cared if it hurt their feelings, 'cause they were fuckin outta here!

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour killed 2,403 U.S. personnel, including 68 civilians. The Terrorist attack on the Twin Towers (Yes, I do believe it was an inside job... But that's not what we're talking about here) killed 2,996 people and injured more than 6,000 others... that's 600 MORE deaths than Pearl Harbour.... 2.4k is fine to kick people out, ban them from coming in and forcing them to live in camps.... But 3k... That's simply reason for us to invite them willingly and beg them to live in houses next door.

The mass shooting by ISIS supporters in California could have been stopped... Their neighbor said they saw suspicious activity, but did not call police OUT OF FEAR OF BEING CALLED RACIST!!!! That's 14 more people who could be alive today if people had a little bit of a back bone and wasn't so scared of speaking their mind...


The simple fact of the matter is - A temporary ban is for safety.

"It stands against what America stands for"... Yeah, so does owning slaves, but the men who wrote that all men were to be free owned slaves. It's pure hypocrisy and always has been - It truly means nothing, though I do support the constitution and everything it stands for, but things like this that have been bent and cut throughout history for our own safety, can be bent yet again for the same reason.

Look at it this way....

If you got a call and found out your parents... or your spouse... Or Gods forbid, your children... Had just been murdered by an ISIS supporter... Would you be thinking "well, at least I protected their right to be here. That's what counts" Or would you be thinking more along the lines of "Why the fuck was someone like that allowed to come into this country?" Maybe it's just me... But I'd be thinking the second one...

ISIS may be nothing but a small group of radicals (small compared to the whole of Muslims) but the plain fact is, we are at war with them in the same way we were at war with the Japanese in WWII. A ban on letting more of them come into America until Russia finishes them off is plain and simple, no different. It's for your safety and for the safety of your families - Including Muslims as well. ISIS don't care if you're Muslim, they prefer to kill Christians, but anyone will suffice.

If you're living in America and you're a Muslim, I could understand some worries... I can understand that "what if he says it won't affect us, but then they force us to leave or into camps like they did the Japanese people" and that's perfectly reasonable... The Government lies to us every day and even though his proposal was not to affect current citizens, can we trust that that's how it'll work? I can't say for sure - What I'm saying, is I support how it is currently proposed, as it will make America safer until ISIS is dealt with.

 

There is no reason for the ban to be temporary. When you say that you been commanded by god to enslave me, or put me to death, I'm not going to give you a free house and food. I'm going to defend myself. It's been 1400 years, and over 100 million dead or enslaved, starting with Mohammad himself. When will the West learn? I have witnessed the conquering of Europe by the Islamic hordes, millions of military age Islamic males occupying and dominating the populations of the cities they move to.

 

Well... It needs to be temporary because America IS the melting pot and has always been intended to be such (for different white races anyway) since conquered from the natives in the first place... Muslim religion isn't an evil religion, some fanatics take it too far... The Christians conquered my own people in the way you're implying that Muslims are conquering yours... Except my people were forced to convert or murdered... "Original" Christians were very much attuned to "do as our god says or I shall kill you".... Wait.... Isn't that how ISIS protrays their version of Muslim religion? :O

Same shit different God I suppose... Actually, I've heard the Muslim god and Christian God are the same... But the Muslims are one of the very few religions I haven't researched... But I'm taking this off track here... Post isn't actually about religion, mainly Trumps ban and if you agree with it or not... Apparently you agree and more. lol

 

That's the fatal error that people are making. They are assuming that these people are coming for work or safety, coming to make their way on the American frontier like their families did when they moved here. However, this is not the case whatsoever. 90% of these Islamic migrants are on welfare. They aren't coming here to work and integrate into the melting pot, they travel over thousands of miles of non-war affected land to get to countries where free food, housing, and healthcare is extracted from the infidel taxpayers.

It is more than a religion, it is a worldwide conquest ideology. Mohammad (and therefore, God) commanded his followers to fight and enslave non-Muslims who do not follow Islamic law.

Agreed. I am for freedom of travel (which is how the media has portrayed the Islamic migration), but it is just a Trojan horse.

 

You are a complete moron if you think we treated the Japanese in our camps were mistreated anywhere near what the nazi's did to the jews.

I believe we should have a complete ban on all middle eastern countries in general. I dont believe its just muslims in general its all of those crazy, radical fucks. I dont want their refugee's here either. Stop busing in more problems for a country with enough problems already. Lets take care of our own infrastructure first.

I also agree with how politically correct our country has become. It's a absolute joke on so many different levels. Black people can use the term nigger in every single sentence but god forbid a white man use it. This country has become soft and PC as fuck.

 

I've studied a lot of religions, but like I said, I haven't studied Muslims - Is Islamic and Muslim the same thing? I've always taken it that the Islams were separate, similar to how Christian and Catholic is the same religion, just different rules/practices. (only worship jesus/god + do good vs worship jesus/god + mary & do whatever you want as long as you ask for forgiveness). And with that, I've always thought the Islams were the radical (ISIS religion = islamic) while Muslims were the more peaceful, not "kill the infadels" versions. lol


EDIT: And no ones come to America to work, except the Mexicans, for a damn century. lol

EDIT2: We're getting off track again haha - Lets try to keep this trump's proposal based

 

Sorry, just now saw your post - And again, I don't believe in banning anyone from America... That's kind of what America is here for lol and it's one reason I'd like to leave... But it's still kinda the point of the country so I won't say it should be a permanent ban, only temporary is my personal opinion because of the hypocrisy the nation was founded on - But as is our way, you are free to your opinion, even if we don't agree


And I agree about all middle easterns - Anyone can say "I'm not a muslim"... So to be safe, all middle-easterners would have to be banned... How many muslims trying to enter the country would say "yes, I'm a Muslim, my mistake, I'll just turn around and go home" right?


I personally don't support the term "nigger"... But in that sense, I do not believe black people should say it either, nor should they use slurrs for white people - I wouldn't say I'm PC, but I don't care to use racial slurs nor be called one (outside of race jokes that is, everyone loves a good race joke!) However, if I'm called cracker or anything else, I'm not afraid to shoot a slur right back - Even if the slurr for their race is more hurtful, it's not like any of these young teenagers were actual slaves, parents weren't either... possibly grand parents, but most likely great grandparents - So they have no right to believe they're owed something for just being born a certain color - And now not nearly all black men and women are like this either. However, each generation DOES get worse, but it seems that is the same for all races and religions.


Also, I have no idea how the Japanese were treated in the camps, I was just stating I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we DID treat them that badly (Obviously we didn't murder them in droves,... But in general, the living conditions, physical abuse, etc)



EDIT: Why can I not stay on track O.O I could easily only reply to the parts about Trumps Temp Ban, but I find myself writing out full replies on everything that's said haha - oops... I'll try to do better with that...

 

Im muslim living in the UK and I can tell you not a single muslim I know supports ISIS. You are truly misinformed. ISIS has killed more muslims than anyone else, so how is it that non-muslims are the victims all of a sudden? It's them against us all, segregating muslims & non-muslims will lead to nothing but distance between the two groups and this will only lead to more support of ISIS, as they will be like "we like you" and non-muslims are like "get out of our country" so tell me as a person thats not involved in either side which side would you pick?

One side wants to ban you from the face of the earth (trump) and the other will look after you, but will kill you for being "moderate" as I am (ISIS)?

Have you ever looked at it like that?

I've grown up just like you in the west, I've probably grew up with a life experience so similar to yours that apart from my faith I'm probably exactly the same as you.

HOWEVER at the moment the title of your thread implies I will also be banned from the US, what have I done wrong? If your talking about temporary ban on refugees, I'm not disputing that at all. I believe we should do our upmost to help them as they are fleeing war torn countries that our tax money has funded the destruction of, but we can do that without housing them with current citizens as there is obviously a security risk there.

 

Like I said, I don't believe all Muslims are bad and don't know much about the religion at all - However, I look at it a different way, and though I do respect your opinion, just can't see your perspective.

We can put a short-term ban on muslims until Russia takes out ISIS, because you know damn well we don't have what it takes... Or we can risk letting radical terrorists in. The only reason I believe it should be all muslim and/or middle eastern peoples is because there's no way to tell the difference. Yes, there's white people who do acts of terror, our own citizens just as often as islamic terrorists... But as the threat grows, so does the need for security.

When you run a business, imagine someone is doing something bad to the business...

Just for example purposes, lets say you run a business and one of your employees is stealing A LOT of money from the company... You have a source that tells you this person has recommended friends to fill more positions in your company, and that they too are well accomplished thieves and plan to rob you blind, then murder you and all of the other employees in their sleep... You look at your records... 10 different employees have recommended personal friends for jobs... Do you say fuck it, risk it and just hire some of them? I sure as hell don't.... I scrap all of those recommendations and I might even fire all 10 employees just to avoid the risk and also get rid of the thief.

The only difference there, is that I agree that current citizens should not be "fired" because similar people are part of ISIS... However, for the security of the "business" I can't hire any of those people who might be part of ISIS due to the risk factor.

And of course, you may do things differently. That's my reason for this thread, to see the opinions and views of others - I'm not saying my way is right or wrong, nor am I saying that about your way - I'm just explaining my own perspective, I'm only interested in seeing what other people think, I don't mean to sound as if I'm trying to force you to see things my way. However, I can see how it may see it that way as I'm a pretty opinionated person, but the first half of this message to help you understand my own views - And I assure you, your answer is exactly what I'm looking for. It's got your view as well as the reason you see things the way you do.


EDIT: And yes, you would have to be banned too at once you're not already a resident here - As how can we tell you apart from the radical terrorists? There's no way, regardless of if you have or haven't - You either take the chance of more peopling being hurt or killed, or just make people tough it out and wait until the current issues are under control before coming into our homes.

 

I respect what your saying - obviously you want to feel safe at home. I just have one point to make though - there is a coalition of the most powerful countries in the world fighting ISIS, why are they not stopped yet? On top of that, ISIS was created from the West funding so called "moderates" (the term politicians use for people that are of use to them at the time) that turned into ISIS. Now I don't wish death upon anyone, but collectively as the West I'm sure many would agree our politicians are absolute arse holes. They wouldn't lose a nights sleep of any of us dying white, black, brown, muslim, christian, jews we are just collateral to them. Until we revolutionise the way we are controlled and who's word matters in politics this will be a never ending cycle. Today it's ISIS, tomorrow it will be another group the government has found to put the blame on. Simply because of the fact that when someone suffers, you can bet there is someone profiting from it. Because whole heartedly I can say that public opinion has absolute 0 significance in the way our tax money is spent and our country is run (i'm talking about the UK, but I can bet this can be said for most countries).

Even muslim leaders are the same - look at Saudi Arabia and Yemen. They don't give a shit about their citizens just like obama/david cameron don't give a shit about me and you. It's a global agenda being pushed by those higher up - and it's mine and yours brothers and sisters that are going to be the collateral damage. I don't see politicians urging their kids to sign up to the Army.

ISIS and muslims are not the problem here, they are doing the same thing to their people that your leaders are doing to you. Look at the videos of the police being militarised in the US and tell me honestly if you all turned against obama he would walk out of office just cos that's what the public wants? Of course he wouldn't, he'd start fucking you up, lives of citizens won't matter when they try to assert their power. The only problem with us is that we are far more bothered about something thats happening on the other side of the world than whats happening at home... Believe me I see it day in and day out literally nobody here in the UK likes our government. So why the fuck are they in power ask yourself? Because they are going to defend us from ISIS? I'm sorry if I seem arrogant but I'm not afraid for the security of my country one bit, ISIS can't even take over a war-torn country properly and they are going to waltz over europe, take over europe, then go on to come to the UK and US? C'mon man, these guys have done a couple of random shootings in the West (if it was them) and our countries have literally blown countries to pieces. It's not rocket science to see that they can easily be destroyed, I'm just sat here wondering why they aren't gone yet if they are such a big threat...


And about your point about not distinguishing me being a threat - Look up the floods that are happening in the UK at the moment. The government aren't there, the far-right parties are nowhere to be seen, its a majority of muslim effort that is bringing people affected by the floods the supplies they need to survive.

On top of that, what does a muslim look like? I'm assuming your white, bro I can show you around 15 muslims off the top of my head from my home town that are white that you would never think are muslim. How are you going to stop that? Muslims aren't all middle eastern lol


And to re iterate my point - you say you are at war with ISIS, guess what buddy so am I! I'm in exactly the same boat as you bro, the only difference is I'm in the shooting line for both sides so tell me how do you think I feel? America wants to ban me because of what I believe in & ISIS wants to kill me because I'm "westernised". You can point the finger at whoever you like that's your opinion your entitled to it but can you please give me a solution to what I'm supposed to do in my situation? Am I just supposed to roll over and get shit on in my own homeland for what I believe in? And you call it the "country of freedom"? Or am I supposed to get shipped out to the middle east and start hating you guys cuz u turned your backs on me?

 

Islam is the religion. Muslim is the term that describes someone who follows it. There are different sects of Islam (Sunni, Shiite, etc).

If you don't know much about it at all, what way exactly are you looking at it from? If Trump proposed banning widgets from the United States, would you form an opinion on it without knowing what a widget was?

 

I go to school in St. Cloud Minnesota which has been a huge hub for Somalian and middle eastern people a like for some time now. I can tell you the crime rate rises being surrounded by any foreigner. My school emails us about on campus shootings and robberies more frequently then it should ever. We are taught to not walk alone because of what some of these people do. People are abducted and never found again. Sold into some form of sex slavery, the last one was right before winter break. The media doesn't cover any of it though showing the "negatives" to this. Once you start walking around at 12pm on a Thursday night and see 12 year old boys with liquor bottles and stabbing people you can complain about how it "isn't right to ban them". Not all of them are "bad" to say, its lack of discipline or care in the households. Currently the Somalian community is proposing we build them a light rail so they can spread to better areas with a better education. But their children are even performing. majority of MN natives alike are against this as we know what comes from nuking an area. They preach how they aren't treated equal, but when I have to go to the gas station past 10pm (theres only 1 left open 24 hours up there within a decent range) I will not be serviced wearing my cross neckless. Until you actually see what happens and the effects of the community I don't think anyone should say whats right and wrong. I'm not one to stereotype but as stated before they're not all bad. One thing you learn real quick is the ones dressed with button up shirts and over the shoulder bags are nice and friendly. The rest majority of the time are not.

And that's just facts. Sorry if that upsets anyone but its the truth regaurdless if anyone likes it or not. I have not seen any benefit to adding these people and saving them from their homeland I would rather send them food or something and use the money to help our veterans or homeless.

 

It's not constitutional, but in situations like this, I don't see how it could hurt.

However, I don't know if I'd like the idea of Trump being president for one reason: He's too arrogant and cocky. And has a big mouth, and says very offensive things. And weather he wants it to or not - That might start many wars he does/doesn't want us to be in. Just because he doesn't give everyone mutual respect, and has a feeling that he is all powerful and above everyone.

But, I don't exactly see a better fit president that's running, so.. *Shrugs*

 

The Constitution doesn't apply to foreigners. The United States didn't allow immigration from Italy or Germany during WWII. The United States didn't allow immigration from Iran during the hostage crisis.

As for Trump's attitude, I'm far more concerned when he says things that aren't truthful rather than offensive.

 

Like Donald Trump Said... If we let 1 Million Muslims in the country and we made a mistake to let one Radical Islamic Muslim, then it is game over basically.

So yes, I believe for the time being Muslims immigrants shouldn't be allowed to the United States

 

And as for the 1 million Muslims, it stands fact that the United States has immigrated more Muslims than the rest of the world combined over the past decade or so.

 

@W Naeem - Your post was long so I didn't want to quote it - It is very true that Governments are corrupt the entire world over. You're right, they don't care. I don't fear them taking over the US, I doubt they could, but they could kill hundreds of thousands of people in an attempt, something that, to me, just isn't worth the risk. And as for what you should do, I can't say. I can't be sorry for thinking your people should not be let into the country until everything is under control - But I do feel sorry for you, as I feel sorry for the innocent Syrians; it's not your war and not your fault but you're getting the cold end, and as horrible as it is, that's just life I guess.

Depends, is it common knowledge that widgets are murdering us in droves, making threats against our entire country, and posing as innocent Muslims to enter our country? If so - Then absolutely. It's not about what a Muslim is or isn't it's about the fact that a group of Muslims has become a HUGE threat to our country and our people.

This exactly is what America is for... Now, I'm not saying its right, in fact, the types of people you're talking about should be thrown right back out, regardless of race or religion - If people raised their kids right, disciplined them, taught them respect, people wouldn't act the way you're explaining and it wouldn't be an issue - and forgive me, but this isn't what this thread is about. Don't worry about offending someone, if someone gets offended about facts and eye-witness accounts, it's because they know it's true - But lets stick to the topic here, banning Muslims in order to assure no further ISIS members can make their way into the country and hurt more people.

I agree that his mouth COULD get us in a lot of trouble... But, look at Kim Jung, he was seen as just a big talker and ignored... I'm not saying America would be the same way... And while his foriegn policies would help us out as a country, the last thing we want is to piss off someone whose just waiting and able to end us. However, I believe it's all for shock value.. When/If he becomes president, I imagine a lot of it will die down or be censored out.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm opinionated, and thus, I do enjoy people agreeing with me... But I don't want to just know if you agree with him, I want personal reasons why you believe it's good - A thought out post with good points. While I could take it as your reasoning being Trump's quote, I'd like to know more about why you agree with it.

 

Banning Muslims clearly and obviously violates the First Amendment. It also is exactly what ISIS wants us to do. Wanting to ban Muslims just proves how scared, feeble and weak people are. The strong, courageous and morally correct thing to do is to accept as many refugees as we can to and tell ISIS to go fuck themselves. In addition not accepting immigrants is one of the most un-American things you can do since nearly every American is descended from an immigrant.

 

No it doesn't:

So how many refugees are you currently feeding and housing?

 

A) The Constitution does apply to non-citizens. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boumediene_v._Bush
B) Religion is not the same thing as nationality. It is completely clear that banning a person from immigrating to the US when they would normally would be able to because of their religious violates the First Amendment. Honestly it is so clear that there really can not be a serious argument that it is constitutional.

This is an ad hominem but I'll address it anyway. I would be perfectly happy to house a refugee at my house. Perhaps a small family but our spare bedroom isn't all that large so a single person would be much more comfortable.

I shouldn't have to house any of them and the fact that I want the government to accept more does not say I am consenting to house them either. The government should be working on my behalf to transport, house, and integrate the refugees. I shouldn't have to do anything unless I want to.