Zimmerman Not Guilty

[FloydZeppelin]

This right here guys is an argument that has reached it's end in victory (In my favor of course).

Heads has no actual responses or argument so he resorted to the thinnest of the thin until he was all out of steam. How cute is that? I posted my argument so why don't you actually respond and prove any of them wrong?

 

[Heads447]

This right here guys is an argument that has reached it's end in victory.

Yeah, I'm stupid and you aren't.

Agreed. #gameoveriwon

Heads has no actual responses or argument so he resorted to the thinnest of the thin until he was all out of steam. How cute is that? I posted my argument so why don't you actually respond and prove any of them wrong?

Because I'm tired of arguing with an idiot obviously. Le

 

[Lame]

Imo hes still guilty on some degree. He could have stopped following him and got back into his car like the dispatcher told him to. By failing to do so he put himself in the situation allowing TM to confront which lead to his death. Also why would you follow someone who is potentially dangerous. Even if you have a gun maybe TM had a bigger gun. I wouldnt follow someone even if i was armed. Thats just me.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

Agreed. #gameoveriwon



Because I'm tired of arguing with an idiot obviously. Le

hey if hashtags and cheering yourself on in an argument that you miserably failed helps you sleep at night, then whatever.

Imo hes still guilty on some degree. He could have stopped following him and got back into his car like the dispatcher told him to. By failing to do so he put himself in the situation allowing TM to confront which lead to his death. Also why would you follow someone who is potentially dangerous. Even if you have a gun maybe TM had a bigger gun. I wouldnt follow someone even if i was armed. Thats just me.

What, that's exactly the reason to be armed?

And all of this can be said exactly the same to TM's case. By failing to:

a. go home when the opportunity was there.
b. identify who he is, answer GZ when asked; but instead just put a whole new spin of danger on it by initiating a fight.

No one cares how TM handled the situation, only the other guy.

 

[Xier0]

Imo hes still guilty on some degree. He could have stopped following him and got back into his car like the dispatcher told him to. By failing to do so he put himself in the situation allowing TM to confront which lead to his death. Also why would you follow someone who is potentially dangerous. Even if you have a gun maybe TM had a bigger gun. I wouldnt follow someone even if i was armed. Thats just me.

Guilty of something, yea, but they charged him with murder because they wanted to make an example out of him. It is like with the Casey Anthony case, because it is so high profile, they charge them with murder instead of what they would actually get convicted of, then everyone is outraged because they weren't convicted, not realizing that they are being charged for the wrong crime.

 

[Lame]

hey if hashtags and cheering yourself on in an argument that you miserably failed helps you sleep at night, then whatever.



What, that's exactly the reason to be armed?

And all of this can be said exactly the same to TM's case. By failing to:

a. go home when the opportunity was there.
b. identify who he is, answer GZ when asked; but instead just put a whole new spin of danger on it by initiating a fight.

No one cares how TM handled the situation, only the other guy.

Because GZ initiated the situation to Begin with by deciding to follow him and not listen to the dispatcher. There is a reason the dispatcher told him not to follow him. By neglecting to listen that reason is quite clear.

TM could have handled it different. I guarantee if TM and GZ switched rolls that 17 year old would be behind bars for the rest of his life. Maybe not because of race but the fact that GZ had a better lawyer.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

Because GZ initiated the situation to Begin with by deciding to follow him and not listen to the dispatcher. There is a reason the dispatcher told him not to follow him. By neglecting to listen that reason is quite clear.

TM could have handled it different. I guarantee if TM and GZ switched rolls that 17 year old would be behind bars for the rest of his life. Maybe not because of race but the fact that GZ had a better lawyer.

Okay, again though people need to stop saying he ignored her commands. She told him over 20 seconds after he was out of the car to not follow him. Stop watch me for 20 seconds and see how far I can get (especially in a haste). It's one thing to say he should have known better and just not have followed him, but no he didn't deliberately ignore her command. In fact I believe the command was "stop following him" and not "stay in the car" like everyone seems to be misinforming each other. And if the events played out the way explained to the PD (which seems to correlate pretty well), then GZ was on his way back to the car when TM came up and knocked his ass out, shortly after she told him to stop following... So who's to say he even continued to follow? Why couldn't he be on his way back to the car at that point? After all he already ran out and tried to chase him but lost him.

Also, if your on the tail of someone you think is suspicious it's not always easy to just "sit idle and let it go". I understand why they say to do this, but I think a lot of you would have done the same if you had some suspicion about someone. I have anyway, and you know what I was right about it too.

 

[Lame]

Okay, again though people need to stop saying he ignored her commands. She told him over 20 seconds after he was out of the car to not follow him. Stop watch me for 20 seconds and see how far I can get (especially in a haste). It's one thing to say he should have known better and just not have followed him, but no he didn't deliberately ignore her command. In fact I believe the command was "stop following him" and not "stay in the car" like everyone seems to be misinforming each other. And if the events played out the way explained to the PD (which seems to correlate pretty well), then GZ was on his way back to the car when TM came up and knocked his ass out, shortly after she told him to stop following... So who's to say he even continued to follow? Why couldn't he be on his way back to the car at that point? After all he already ran out and tried to chase him but lost him.

Also, if your on the tail of someone you think is suspicious it's not always easy to just "sit idle and let it go". I understand why they say to do this, but I think a lot of you would have done the same if you had some suspicion about someone. I have anyway, and you know what I was right about it too.

The thing is you cant just assume someone is up to no good on a random assumption. The kid was just walking down the street talking to his gf. The other day i was walking home at 2:30am if someone started folllwing me id be scared. If they continuted to follow i would confront them. If you think someone looks suspicious the best thing to do is call the cops. There is no reason to follow them it just causes trouble. They both made mistakes that night they are both guilty of fucking up but TM paid for his mistake with his life that night. GZ didnt pay for his mistake. Im not saying put the guy behind bars for the rest of his life or put him on death row. But he doesnt deserve to get off scott free.

On my phone atm so sorry if its a bit unorganized.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

The thing is you cant just assume someone is up to no good on a random assumption. The kid was just walking down the street talking to his gf. The other day i was walking home at 2:30am if someone started folllwing me id be scared. If they continuted to follow i would confront them. If you think someone looks suspicious the best thing to do is call the cops. There is no reason to follow them it just causes trouble. They both made mistakes that night they are both guilty of fucking up but TM paid for his mistake with his life that night. GZ didnt pay for his mistake. Im not saying put the guy behind bars for the rest of his life or put him on death row. But he doesnt deserve to get off scott free.

On my phone atm so sorry if its a bit unorganized.

Do you honestly believe that he called the cops because there was a kid walking down the street? He found him suspicious because he was walking through people's lawns (which is something I used to do when trying to stay out of the light and checking car doors/windows, but who knows what he was really doing I'm just saying). Especially in a neighborhood that had reported dozens of break ins, you wouldn't find that person suspicious at all, huh? The bottom line is he gave off a reasonable suspicion that caused GZ to call the cops in the first place. Also, If you're walking at 2:30 AM you are a bit suspicious, it's just the way it is because usually nothing good is usually happening around 2:30 AM. Always? Of course not, but surely you get the point.

He then chose to follow because TM ran away, talk about adding on a red flag, would you let a perp get away? If anything that verified his suspicion.

What if you lost the person following you? Would you go back to confront or would you go home like this kid should have?

From GZ point of view up until his death, the only image TM portrayed to him was that he was a thug who was being shady and trying to elude him. Like I said, even after asked TM never told him that he lived there which would have been an open and shut book. A few times I've been sitting out in my car at 3 in the morning and a cop will roll by, stop by me and ask what I'm doing. I just say "I live here" and that's that, they don't even check my ID - I could be a criminal for all they know. If a random person (like GZ was to TM) came up and asked me that I would have said the same thing and definitely wouldn't have started pounding the guy until he threw a punch, tbh.

 

[Lame]

Do you honestly believe that he called the cops because there was a kid walking down the street? He found him suspicious because he was walking through people's lawns (which is something I used to do when trying to stay out of the light and checking car doors/windows, but who knows what he was really doing I'm just saying). Especially in a neighborhood that had reported dozens of break ins, you wouldn't find that person suspicious at all, huh? The bottom line is he gave off a reasonable suspicion that caused GZ to call the cops in the first place. Also, If you're walking at 2:30 AM you are a bit suspicious, it's just the way it is because usually nothing good is usually happening around 2:30 AM. Always? Of course not, but surely you get the point.

He then chose to follow because TM ran away, talk about adding on a red flag, would you let a perp get away? If anything that verified his suspicion.

What if you lost the person following you? Would you go back to confront or would you go home like this kid should have?

I would have just walked home like TM should have. We will never know what he was actually doing but i read somewhere he was on a "snack run" and had no criminal record. Im no expert on the case. Was there any witnesses who saw what happened? If not its GZ word against TM who is obviously dead. Was he on the phone with his gf as he turned back to attack GZ? Obviously the lack of facts and poor evidence gathering on the prosecutions side would call for him being acquitted.

 

[Sun]

I'd rather not get into an argument with anyone but hell, you can't talk about something like this without getting someone anxious.

I just read this, i know its only 40,000 people but still..

When I saw this poll, I was honestly a lot surprised myself. I thought more people than not thought that Zimmerman was guilty. I'm not sure who was a part of the poll, but regardless I thought the odds would have been different than the 40k turnout.

I didn't say TM initially followed GZ but he had the chance to get away but he chose to confront it, so in a way he did follow GZ.

I read the USA Today link that you posted and I didn't see anything about Martin actually intending to confront Zimmerman at any time. Martin told his girlfriend via his phone that the guy (Zimmerman) was getting close and that he couldn't run anymore regardless of the fact that he was almost to his father's house. Zimmerman caught up with Martin and then Martin proceeds to ask, "Why are you following me for?" This was not an intention, he probably would have just continued talking to his girlfriend and gotten to his father's house. Regardless of the toxicology reports (the trace of THC in his system), I don't think this was an important role in the situation (not that you brought it up, I'm just saying so). Martin was genuinely scared and on the run from a man he thought (and indeed) was chasing him down. Once this man, Zimmerman, caught up, it was a non avoidable confrontation.

I agree with loyal.

Also, I think it is ridiculous how anyone is making this about race... a hispanic guy shoots a black guy, this happens on a daily basis, it's just for the media hype and it makes me sick.

When Zimmerman asked, "What are you doing around here?" I do believe that it was a race influenced crime. What else would Zimmerman have meant by, "What are *you* doing around here?" Did he know Martin? No. What did he mean by "you"? He was just a teenager walking to his father's house. What did Zimmerman mean by "around here"? A white neighborhood, perhaps? Was he standing out because he was black? How is this not race related? It was. If it wasn't, tell me how it wasn't, because I cannot see the logic behind it not being a race issue. As for the suspicion aspect of this that Zimmerman had.. if Martin were white, would Zimmerman still have seen it as suspicious? If it were a girl, would Zimmerman still have seen it as suspicious? Would a grown man think that a girl was threatening? Probably not.

--

"That is absolutely, positively George Zimmerman," his father said, expressing surprise at the high quality of the audio. "Myself, my wife, family members and friends know that that is George Zimmerman, there is no doubt, who's yelling for help."

This is complete bullshit. Why in the hell would Zimmerman be yelling out of concern for his life if, 1. he had a gun, 2. Martin was a lot smaller than Zimmerman, and 3. it turned out that Martin had no weapon? So was Martin physically attacking Zimmerman? If he was, Zimmerman wouldn't have screamed "for help", he could have easily pushed Martin off. Once he did that, if he pulled a gun on Martin, I'm sure any person wouldn't continue to attack someone with a gun pointing in their face. Also, what made Zimmerman think that Martin had a weapon of any sort? His hands were in his pocket? Was he reaching for a gun or a knife? How could he be doing so if he was previously on the phone before he was knocked down? ZIMMERMAN KNOCKED MARTIN DOWN. WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE SHOOT HIM AFTER? Zimmerman chased a black kid down after calling the police to report "suspicious" activity, which was never even clarified, and after the 911 Dispatcher had told Zimmerman to stay in his car and to not pursue.

Why would Martin be reaching for his Skittles and his soda (or whatever they were) while being confronted by a much larger man that he was previously afraid and running from? It turned out that Martin didn't have a weapon. This doesn't make sense. Zimmerman's facts seem jumbled to me and that's just my perspective. I do not think that he is innocent. Besides the Stand Your Ground laws, Zimmerman still killed a teenager out on the open street when he could have avoided even speaking to Martin in the first place. Zimmerman decided to confront Martin anyway and then eventually killed the kid. How is that not punishable? Was it self-defence even though Zimmerman ignored police recommendations and still pursued a "suspicious" KID on foot? "It was dark, oh, he couldn't tell his race, his age or his gender." I've heard people say this. If he couldn't tell, why would he pursue this suspicious character and risk his life if he truly believed he was a danger? Are the Stand Your Ground laws applicable when all Zimmerman had to do was wait for the police to arrive to deal with the issue? Yes but that's bullshit. Did Zimmerman have to shoot Martin? No. Did Zimmerman have to shoot Martin in the chest? Could Zimmerman have easily shot Martin in the lower body? Was Martin attacking Zimmerman? As I said, if he was, once Zimmerman pulled his gun, Martin would have easily surrendered.

Anyhow, the boy is dead and the man is free. There is nothing any of us can do about any of it. Putting Zimmerman in jail won't bring Martin back to life. I do believe that Zimmerman should flee as soon as possible, though. Many people want him dead and if they're serious about it, it'll happen. A life for a life doesn't seem reasonable to me as I do believe that Zimmerman should rot for killing Martin like he did but he won't.

None of us know what truly happened that day, so I guess we just have to trust the justice system and hope that everyone can move on. Everyone thought that the Casey Anthony case would result in Anthony dead and she hasn't turned up dead years later but she has disappeared for the most part. I'm hoping that Zimmerman just disappears.

Bash my statements to hell, I honestly don't care. That's just a lot of facts that I believe are true and my opinion on the matter. I'm not saying any of these facts are 100% true (or even 1% true), I'm just saying that I think they're accurate.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

I would have just walked home like TM should have. We will never know what he was actually doing but i read somewhere he was on a "snack run" and had no criminal record. Im no expert on the case. Was there any witnesses who saw what happened? If not its GZ word against TM who is obviously dead. Was he on the phone with his gf as he turned back to attack GZ? Obviously the lack of facts and poor evidence gathering on the prosecutions side would call for him being acquitted.

The dude has a criminal record. For vandalism on his school, also having been caught with various burglary tools, and women's jewelry, drug violations, truancy, and other disciplinary issues at school, as well as probably many other things that:

A. He was never caught for
B. are not publicized.

There are a couple of witnesses I've read about and one of them claimed he watched TM ground n pound GZ MMA style (which appears is exactly what happened..) and told him to get off to which he ignored.

He was on the phone with gf all the way to the attack, and had successfully eluded zimmerman for probably over 2 minutes and had the opportunity to leave but chose to confront the situation instead. On the phone call it's said that the only communication that took place is GZ said "what are you doing around here" and then a scuffle started and the phone ultimately lost the call. No reasonable conversation took place like maybe an answer ("I live here"), just a fight that breaks out, so either you believe that the neighborhood watch who was just looking for shady activity wanted some black blood and attacked, or a teenage "gangsta" popped GZ first (which sounds totally unrealistic right?)

.
When Zimmerman asked, "What are you doing around here?" I do believe that it was a race influenced crime. What else would Zimmerman have meant by, "What are *you* doing around here?" Did he know Martin? No. What did he mean by "you"? He was just a teenager walking to his father's house. What did Zimmerman mean by "around here"? A white neighborhood, perhaps? Was he standing out because he was black? How is this not race related? It was. If it wasn't, tell me how it wasn't, because I cannot see the logic behind it not being a race issue. As for the suspicion aspect of this that Zimmerman had.. if Martin were white, would Zimmerman still have seen it as suspicious? If it were a girl, would Zimmerman still have seen it as suspicious? Would a grown man think that a girl was threatening? Probably not.

I'll respond to your post later, but I just have to say this has got to be the biggest amount of hogwash I've read all day. "what did he mean by YOU.... what did he mean by AROUND HERE....gotta be racist...." How silly.

For now, I will say on behalf of everyone who has lived in both ghetto and suburbia please SHUT THE FUCK UP and quit acting like black people don't live in both areas (As well as white people).

Assumptions are fun for you aren't they?

Also, read the links again, he was standing by his father's house for the couple of minutes on the phone. He was home he chose not to go in, but instead confront it.

This is complete bullshit. Why in the hell would Zimmerman be yelling out of concern for his life if, 1. he had a gun, 2. Martin was a lot smaller than Zimmerman, and 3. it turned out that Martin had no weapon? So was Martin physically attacking Zimmerman? If he was, Zimmerman wouldn't have screamed "for help", he could have easily pushed Martin off. Once he did that, if he pulled a gun on Martin, I'm sure any person wouldn't continue to attack someone with a gun pointing in their face. Also, what made Zimmerman think that Martin had a weapon of any sort? His hands were in his pocket? Was he reaching for a gun or a knife? How could he be doing so if he was previously on the phone before he was knocked down? ZIMMERMAN KNOCKED MARTIN DOWN. WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE SHOOT HIM AFTER? Zimmerman chased a black kid down after calling the police to report "suspicious" activity, which was never even clarified, and after the 911 Dispatcher had told Zimmerman to stay in his car and to not pursue.

You should step out of the box and and instead of acting like zimmerman wanted martin's blood, maybe consider the gun was a last resort (Which seems to be why he took a 40 second long ground style beating). Calling for 'help' (And receiving it) would have helped avoid that last resort, perfectly reasonable.

1. Just because you have a gun doesn't make you invincible. For all you know his knees could have (and probably were) on GZ's arms when he was in a mounted position bashing his face in. It's hard to do a lot of moving when you're in that position, I don't know if you've ever seen/been in that situation but usually when someone mounts the other, the person on the bottom is their bitch and is about to get fucked up and have very limited options on what they can do to escape that.

2. Being a 5'11 160 pounder is a pretty good stack up against a 5'7 200 pounder. TM could have, and did fuck his ass up because he's not "a lot smaller than zimmerman".

3. Not sure what you mean, but when you're in a fight there is hardly any time to pat the suspect down for a weapon.

4. Quit saying the dispatcher told him to stay in the car. She told him to "stop following" 20 seconds after he left his car and perused him.

5. It is not "easy to push someone off of you" once they mount you in that position. Most people consider this to be the end of the fight, and respectfully it usually is.

 

[Lame]

I think you're beginning to change my opinion on the matter. That may be a first for the forum lol.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

I think you're beginning to change my opinion on the matter. That may be a first for the forum lol.

Good, most people just think I'm looking for an argument but there's so much that's overlooked and ultimately just not accepted (Look at heads, he couldn't even finish his argument with me because what I was saying was making too much sense as opposed to his "goody two shoes walkin down the street gets shot" media littered speculation so he just fizzled out of the thread).

 

[Delta Squad]

Fact of matter is, no one will know what really happened, and we can only go by what a jury of his peers decided.

That's the justice system, and everyone is fine and dandy with it until people start playing the race card, then all of a sudden theres a issue.


I personally have met al sharpton before, when we had a black guy on trial for murdering a cop back in the 90s, and i can tell you from personal exp, all the naacp cares about is playing the race card.

 

[Him]

lol zimmermans a white hispanic guys ?


and btw, i feel for TM greatly and his family however if your neighborhood was being terrorized constantly and you saw anyone wearing a hoodie, African,Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, it doesn't matter, HOODIES LOOK SKETCHY at night.

I don't agree with this case. Not the verdict just all of it.


Now quote me so we could go back and forth.

 

[Lame]

lol zimmermans a white hispanic guys ?


and btw, i feel for TM greatly and his family however if your neighborhood was being terrorized constantly and you saw anyone wearing a hoodie, African,Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, it doesn't matter, HOODIES LOOK SKETCHY at night.

I don't agree with this case. Not the verdict just all of it.


Now quote me so we could go back and forth.

He looked like any other teenager who would be walking around.

 

[FloydZeppelin]

He looked like any other teenager who would be walking around.

I think the suspicion arose more from the fact that GZ was already concerned about the neighborhoods recent activity (First thing he says in 911 call is something like "hey we've had a lot of recent break ins", etc.) and there was a 17 year old kid just walking around that looked out of place (In a way, this is correct) and possibly high (Which he was). I'm not going to say much to support/not support the use of profiling, but I will say this: If GZ profiled was profiling a criminal, right or wrong as it may be to do, he was correct in his assessment because Treyvon Martin was a criminal. Just because you're not acting like a thug at a particular moment in time doesn't make / nor do you deserve to be any less suspicious... Nor do you GIVE OFF any less suspicion.... It's not some sort of light switch you can turn off and on. He confirmed his suspicion by his actions the rest of that night and ultimately paid for it with his life.

edit: and where the hell did you get that picture

 

[Raising Hope]

He looked like any other teenager who would be walking around.

That's a pretty gross picture, I mean he's dead just laying there looking like he's staring at the clouds. I feel bad for his family but I also feel bad for that gated community I can imagine the property values are going down I'd hate to live there.

 

[Lame]

I think the suspicion arose more from the fact that GZ was already concerned about the neighborhoods recent activity (First thing he says in 911 call is something like "hey we've had a lot of recent break ins", etc.) and there was a 17 year old kid just walking around that looked out of place (In a way, this is correct) and possibly high (Which he was). I'm not going to say much to support/not support the use of profiling, but I will say this: If GZ profiled was profiling a criminal, right or wrong as it may be to do, he was correct in his assessment because Treyvon Martin was a criminal. Just because you're not acting like a thug at a particular moment in time doesn't make / nor do you deserve to be any less suspicious... Nor do you GIVE OFF any less suspicion.... It's not some sort of light switch you can turn off and on. He confirmed his suspicion by his actions the rest of that night and ultimately paid for it with his life.

edit: and where the hell did you get that picture

Msnbc leaked it on accident