World Cup - N. Korea?

[War Monger3]

A large majority of the terrorist organization had no idea if their leaders were held in Guantanamo Bay. They do now since they've been let out.

Where they were held is irrelevant, Guantanamo was merely an example I had used, they knew their leaders had been arrested, that breeds contempt for the Western World

They wouldn't be able to get retribution if they weren't released in the first place.

You yourself mentioned a trade-off situation, that's a release. But, "We don't negotiate with terrorists" right?

Yes, some won't crack, but there are some who will. There is also a difference between dieing, and dieing from torture.

Why torture though? Why not use Sodium Thiopental? There is no need for sadism.

 

[Feren Silver]

I believe that certain countries should not be allowed to participate in the world cup especially N. Korea. They are a huge human rights violator and I think they shouldn't be allowed. not allowing them might not make a large difference but it would kinda make them rethink a few things. I aslo realize that most people there arnt bad and that it isnt there fault for living there and not being able to leave but I think they benefits outweigh the damages.

Discuss.

How does Soccer as a whole benefit from banning them? These players on the North Korean squad aren't hardcore radicals, etc. They play the game that everyone else plays. It's futile to make a 'Political Statement' by banning a sports team that qualified just like everyone else did.

Funny note: It's been rumored that the fans at the North Korean games are actually people from China hired to play the part.

 

[Angelmax]

They were some of the most deadliest people in the world. They deserved to be there, after they were let out. They rejoined there terrorist organizations, and went straight back to killing people. So are you saying "O, we shouldn't hurt the poor terrorist."

Are they enemy combatants or criminals?

If they're enemy combatants, they should be been kept under the Geneva convention.

If they're criminals, they should have been granted a fair trial.

 

[juvenilepunk]

World Cup is a time to put our differences aside and just play ball, I have no problem with North Korea playing...I find it quite humorous in fact.

 

[pure skillzz]

Are they enemy combatants or criminals?

If they're enemy combatants, they should be been kept under the Geneva convention.

If they're criminals, they should have been granted a fair trial.

They aren't on American soil, which is why they aren't given a fair trial. After Obama shut down Guantanamo some were sent to the US for a fair trial. These aren't your everyday murderers. They are the deadliest, and most highest ranking terrorist in groups such as Al-Queda, and the Shining Path.

 

[pure skillzz]

Where they were held is irrelevant, Guantanamo was merely an example I had used, they knew their leaders had been arrested, that breeds contempt for the Western World

I don't see how their hatred can grow anymore. Most Middle-Eastern people are happy about what the US is doing to stop the Taliban.

You yourself mentioned a trade-off situation, that's a release. But, "We don't negotiate with terrorists" right?

Elaborate please, and explain how we were negotiating with terrorists.

Why torture though? Why not use Sodium Thiopental? There is no need for sadism.

It's not a coincidence that torture was used since the beginning of man. Who knows? They might be using Sodium Thiopental. Nobody except the military knows exactly what was going on inside Guantanamo.

 

[cescfabregas]

I haven't read any other posts, I just wanted to say this. What did the football players do? This has nothing to do with politics, this is football.

 

[War Monger3]

I don't see how their hatred can grow anymore. Most Middle-Eastern people are happy about what the US is doing to stop the Taliban.

Which is why there are lots of anti-american websites siting propaganda about infidels, and effigies of America are being burned.

Elaborate please, and explain how we were negotiating with terrorists.

You stated something about trade-offs, I misinterpreted that as trading information.

It's not a coincidence that torture was used since the beginning of man. Who knows? They might be using Sodium Thiopental. Nobody except the military knows exactly what was going on inside Guantanamo.

Pillaging and raping villages etc. was also from the beginning of man, have we not advanced a little more than that? And as for what happened in Guantanamo:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/22078/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/dec/11/politics.guantanamo
http://www.amnestyusa.org/counter-t...y---a-human-rights-scandal/page.do?id=1108202
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_homicide_accusations
There are many more accounts.

 

[pure skillzz]

Which is why there are lots of anti-american websites siting propaganda about infidels, and effigies of America are being burned.

In areas that the Taliban rule, non-Taliban members aren't aloud on computers or they'll be stoned to death in the streets.

Pillaging and raping villages etc. was also from the beginning of man, have we not advanced a little more than that? And as for what happened in Guantanamo:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/22078/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/dec/11/politics.guantanamo
http://www.amnestyusa.org/counter-t...y---a-human-rights-scandal/page.do?id=1108202
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_homicide_accusations
There are many more accounts.

Notice how I say "exactly."

 

[me hotur not]

To disallow any country is discrimination. And if I'm not mistake it is a WORLD cup, that includes all nations. They won't be shot as the country is in the dark, no coverage is allowed. Even if they lose he could still tell everyone that they won, and no-one would be any the wiser.

And equally they could be shot for loosing (as a punishment or something?) and still tell the rest of the country they won?

I mean, in economics we did a little about comunism, and watched a video of some people in North Korea getting shot for stepping outside their city, and I think one was doing something innocent under a bridge... they got tied to a post and shot while the whole village watched.

If they get shot for things like that, I think loosing the world cup is 10x more "serious"

 

[Poker Player]

edit: America is a nice human rights abuser too. Remember the NATIVE americans?

This statement is very retarded. How is conquering Natives a rights abuse? Everyone at the time conquered each other. Not to mention the Greeks, Romans, etc. And if there wouldn't for them, you wouldn't even be here. Some American are just stupid.

 

[Angelmax]

I don't see how their hatred can grow anymore. Most Middle-Eastern people are happy about what the US is doing to stop the Taliban.

Are they just?

It's not a coincidence that torture was used since the beginning of man. Who knows? They might be using Sodium Thiopental. Nobody except the military knows exactly what was going on inside Guantanamo.

Why are you happy for your government to routinely make a mockery of human dignity?

 

[MiP2]

Believe me, EVERY country has done something against the human rights.

If someone couldn't participate, that would be definitely USA, the recent oil spill is SO horrifying.

 

[pure skillzz]

Are they just?

Not quite getting what your asking.

Why are you happy for your government to routinely make a mockery of human dignity?

Yes, I am. This may sound cruel and a terrible thing to say. But they belonged there in the first place. Guantanamo isn't your normal prison. It's for some of the most deadliest and highest ranking terrorist in the world. After I mentioned about torture being used since the beginning of man. Somebody else said raiding and raping villages was also, does that make it right. Well I can tell you thats what some of the detainees at Guantanamo did.

Before Saddam Hussein was captured and went into to hiding. Him and his son would go to local villages with a wood cutter/mulcher, and would throw the the local villagers inside of it. And thats what they did for fun, that was there father son bonding. Throwing people in wood chippers. Those same type of sick people were inside of Guantanamo.

Some people that were held in Guantanamo.

-David Hicks, supplied terrorist with materials for the 9/11 terrorist attack.
-Salim Hamdan, Is a part on Osama Bin Ladens personal staff
Ali Al-Bahlul, Was behind the suicide attacking on the USS Cole.

Why do you think they deserve to be treated with dignity and respected?

 

[pure skillzz]

Believe me, EVERY country has done something against the human rights.

If someone couldn't participate, that would be definitely USA, the recent oil spill is SO horrifying.

I just had to quote this.

BP= "British" Petroleum.

 

[Angelmax]

If someone couldn't participate, that would be definitely USA, the recent oil spill is SO horrifying.

Where the hell is this rubbish about the oil spill coming from? If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself. You demanded more and more oil, and you wanted it cheaply. This is the result.

 

[Angelmax]

Not quite getting what your asking.

You're making the ridiculous claim that everyone in the middle east supports the US invaders.

Yes, I am. This may sound cruel and a terrible thing to say. But they belonged there in the first place. Guantanamo isn't your normal prison. It's for some of the most deadliest and highest ranking terrorist in the world. After I mentioned about torture being used since the beginning of man. Somebody else said raiding and raping villages was also, does that make it right. Well I can tell you thats what some of the detainees at Guantanamo did.

When is someone a terrorist, and when are they a soldier? You seem to deem it a-ok for a government sanctioned soldier to go out killing, but somehow decide that the men who retaliate are unworthy of basic dignity.

Before Saddam Hussein was captured and went into to hiding. Him and his son would go to local villages with a wood cutter/mulcher, and would throw the the local villagers inside of it. And thats what they did for fun, that was there father son bonding. Throwing people in wood chippers. Those same type of sick people were inside of Guantanamo.

You seem to be a bit confused. Neither of those men were ever in Guantanamo bay.

-David Hicks, supplied terrorist with materials for the 9/11 terrorist attack.

No he didn't... you're a fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks

Why do you think they deserve to be treated with dignity and respected?

Why shouldn't they be? You expect your soldiers to be treated as human beings.

 

[Angelmax]

I just had to quote this.

BP= "British" Petroleum.

Must of been the wicked redcoats behind it then.

 

[pure skillzz]

You're making the ridiculous claim that everyone in the middle east supports the US invaders.

That would be ridiculous if I said that. I never said all middle easterns support us.

When is someone a terrorist, and when are they a soldier? You seem to deem it a-ok for a government sanctioned soldier to go out killing, but somehow decide that the men who retaliate are unworthy of basic dignity.

A soldier is a member of the armed forces for their country.

A terrorist is a person who brings terror upon people.

You seem to be a bit confused. Neither of those men were ever in Guantanamo bay.

Are you even reading my whole paragraph? I said people just like that are held there.

No he didn't... you're a fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks

I guess Wikipedia can be a bit misleading.

Why shouldn't they be? You expect your soldiers to be treated as human beings.

They are in no way shape or form soldiers. The Taliban isn't a countries armed forces. They are a terrorist organization. Neither are they government sponsored. American prisoners of war are tortured all the time. John McCain (The person running against Obama) was held in Vietnam and tortured brutally.

I'd like you to answer my question instead of answering it with another question.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

To address this topic: The reason North Korea can play in the World Cup is the same reason they can play in the Olympics. The World Cup is a time for all countries to peacefully come together and compete in a fun environment. Politics are always ignored as much as possible in these international sporting events.

To address the torture topic: I don't understand why there is so much talk about Gitmo here, Guantanamo Bay is currently under government oversight and therefore bascially no torture occurs there. Most important terrorists prisoners are usually held at black sights, most of which are in the forests and mountains of Germany and South America or in Northern Africa.

To address the Taliban topic: 90% of Americans, including Pure Skillzz, do not know what the Taliban is. The Taliban is not one terrorist organization, the world Taliban (طالبا&#1606 in Arabic means 'local government'. These "Talibans" are tribal groups that have taken over their communities to protect them because the government is hopeless in Afghanistan. They utilized Afghanistan's main export, Opium, and traded it for food and other necessities to save their communities. Now that their country has been invaded by the US and UN coalition forces, these Talibans have fought back to protect their communities, as they did in the 1980s against the Russians. Some have even allied and form bigger organizations as they are at war, but in no way shape or form are they involved in terrorist activities against U.S. soil. They may utilize terrorist and guerilla tactics in their homeland (RPGs, IEDs, AKs) as they serve as a village watchguard. But the Taliban does not conduct suicide bombings (in general) or other "terrifying" activities against the civilian population. Those activities are done by groups like Al-Qaeda who have radically misinterpreted the Qur'an and now kill Christians and Jews.

@Feren Silver

Funny note: It's been rumored that the fans at the North Korean games are actually people from China hired to play the part.

As far as I know, North Koreans are not allowed to leave their country, so unless this law has been reversed for the World Cup, you are probably correct.