What do you think happens when we die?

I never said I took the 10 commandments literally, like I said before all the soldiers going to war aren't going to hell. The 10 commandments is like a guideline, you can take them however you want. But in my opinion, your chances of going to heaven decreases the more you break them.

 

Upon what basis are you forming your opinion? Your stance is seeming more or less of a personal religion rather than apparent Christianity.

As for following the 10 commandments literally, your previous post is very clear cut in its wording:

As far as soldiers go, to quote you, "if you killed someone or stole, well cya in hell." It does not matter if they are doing their duty; they knowingly disobeyed one of God's commandments, and killed. Killing is killing, there's no reasoning out of that.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it really does feel like you're willing to shift the goalposts on your religion to suit what you feel most comfortable with, rather than the actual teachings and tenets of said religion. It doesn't particularly make any sense, especially considering there's yet to be any particularly logical basis established in the name of being reasonable and rational.

 

Your correct, my original post did make little sense, I wasn't expecting to get in a bebate and
I thought it would have been easier to just say it like that, rather then going thro very single example where its ok to steal and ok to lie. I apologize for confusing you, but yes my belief is Christian based.

 

Well something has to happen to us. Energy can't be created nor destroyed. Our "Souls" are energy. So are energy has to go somewhere. Now where that goes and what happens to us. Is complete peoples opinion based on what you believe. So if I am Christian I believe we go to heaven or hell depending on how you've lived your life so on and so fourth depending on my views.

 

Well, this forum is more or less exclusively for debate and discussion, so I apologise if I have come off a bit aggressive. I genuinely feel that there is no point in posting (or even really discussing your beliefs) if you aren't willing to be challenged though, so I generally try to get to the bottom of why people have these ideas and beliefs.

That is nothing more than pseudoscience. You are correct in stating that energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed, but you're assuming that without some supernatural place to go it would be "destroyed" after death.

In reality, it is much more reasonable, and certainly scientifically demonstrated, that the energy that composes us - our bodies, our minds - is simply redistributed amongst the remainder of the universe. There's no reason the "place" that it goes to has to be supernatural, such as a heaven or a hell; that's just an attempt at being apologetic between science and religion, and it's full of assumptions that don't make any logical sense.

I feel a bit like jumping on the bandwagon here as this is cited a lot (both correctly and incorrectly), but have a look at the second law of thermodynamics. If you can understand what the second law implies, then you would understand that our "energy" going to "heaven" doesn't really make much sense - the natural course of action, thermodynamically, is to redistribute the remaining energy in to the universe, resulting in a decrease in exergy and an increase in entropy.

 

I understand this is a debate forum, but this honestly just turned into a religion debate, where quite frankly, it's hard to prove someone right or wrong because it usually comes down to your opinion, because there's no concrete evidence to prove/disprove god/religions. But with other issues, you can use actual facts, such as gun control, drug prohibition, etc.

 

Indeed. I actually don't think this sort of opinionated topic should be in SFA given people are generally not interested in actually debating it. Namely because when opinions are challenged, cognitive dissonance ensues. Further, I'd imagine providing evidence for religious claims is incredibly difficult, possibly even impossible (which is why I wonder why people believe, but nevertheless).

 

Didn't read the previous posts and have no idea if someone made a similar post but I'm going to say this: Here's the weird thing, has anyone here ever used a Ouija board? Really odd question but it's just creepy as hell. I mean a large amount of people that have used Ouija boards have experienced some sort of contact from "another world". I used it with a couple friends and asked it a super specific question (when a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer) and it answered correctly. It just makes you think that there really might be such a thing as spirits or whatnot. Then that brings up the question of: do we really experience nothingness when we die (in response to those who do not believe in an afterlife)?

 

I have no idea what an Ouija board is, but let's analyse this a little bit.

What sounds more likely? Coincidence, or some disembodied spirit hanging around for which its only action is to provide "answers" through an Ouija board?

 

I'd suggest doing a little research on what Ouija boards are. There's absolutely no chance that it was a "coincidence" that it guessed the correct day, month, and year that my friend was diagnosed with cancer. Furthermore, it's not something digital that provides a response, the piece you hold onto will move by itself over the letters and will tell you as if it is talking to you. Furthermore the spirit doesn't "hang around" but rather you are able to summon one using the board. It's really creepy to be honest and it's very difficult to believe it just by reading. Best thing I could suggest is using one yourself, but please do it with friends. I've used them a couple times and the one time I used it by myself I was scared shitless. Other than religious texts, this is a main reason I believe in spirits and such.

 

Unless you can give me tested and properly recorded evidence, you'll have to forgive my skepticism. Chances are, if it hasn't worked under scientific test conditions before now, then there's absolutely no way it would work for me, as I would be testing it under scientific conditions.

There's still not much sense in a spirit that magically appears out of a board with literally a bunch of letters and numbers on it. Think about it, why on earth would a disembodied spirit's only ever action be to freak you out for no useful reason? The concept is something out of a bad film. As for coincidence, it's entirely possible. Absolutely possible. You actually literally said it yourself: it "guessed" the day.

It may seem UNLIKELY to you, but such a coincidence is still mathematically possible.

 

Then buy one for less than $20 USD and test it out yourself. If we're really going to go with the "everything is mathematically possible" thing you're starting to sound like Eddie the Computer from the Heart of Gold's Improbability Drive in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Also to address your "just to freak you out" argument, that's not true. I was afraid because I was contacting another worldly being (as far as I knew), not because he was scaring me. When things start to move on their own, I'm pretty sure most people would be afraid. Furthermore, a lot of these spirits identify themselves as positive or friendly.

But in the end, using your own little picture, you can't believe anything I say unless you try it yourself. So I would encourage that

 

I've always struggled to explain my opinion on this topic..

Whilst we are alive we have a perception of time. When we die, we have no perception of time. Therefore we will "instantly" arrive at "nothing".

bit like a while() loop.

 

Science already yields an explanation, so I have no need to waste my money:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130729-what-makes-the-ouija-board-move

Refer to the graphic I posted above: your perception is that the Ouija board gave you a result. Your memory is that it happened without your influence. Your narrative is that it was an otherworldly being that did it. In reality, it's quite easily explainable within the natural realm.

Good day sir.

 

You said you would not be convinced until this was tested under lab conditions. The article you give does not do any sort of tests using a Ouija board. It simply states a well known phenomenon and says that is why the Ouija board moves. It doesn't actually conduct any scientific tests under any conditions. It really holds no water unless we do what you yourself said and actually tested it. It's sort of like saying "All birds are yellow," and then someone finds a bird and tells you it is red and without even looking at it you say "Impossible, I have already stated that all birds are yellow."

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-20145664

^Something like that article that actually disproves something would be what I'm looking for. And don't give me something like Wordpress or Hubpages.

 

It's your subconscious playing mind tricks on you. You can't really believe a man made board game targeted for ages 8-12 can contact spirits.. I'm losing faith in humanity.

 

I was actually thinking of making a thread to ask people if they think Ouija boards should be sold in toy stores. Here's the problem, your facts are wrong. The board wasn't made to target 8-12 year olds. It was patented in 1890 and planchette writing has a historical use in Ancient China as far back as the early 12th century. In more modern times with the rise of technology, spiritualism died down and a man decided to make some profit and was allowed to sell them in places such as Toys R Us. Now this is under heavy criticism and debate from a lot of people whether it should be allowed.

But to address your post, no the Ouija board is not targeted at 8-12 year olds, that's just plain wrong. The more modern ones that are sold in toy stores are not the popular ones and have a very small audience.

But hey it's my personal belief and I'd prefer not to be attacked and rather have a civilized debate/discussion over the possibilities ^_^

 

You clearly don't understand scientific logic. The ideomotor effect is quite well documented and even assuming a potential lack of disproof is still the more valid hypothesis as it makes far less assumptions.

You actually can't disprove the existence of something that doesn't exist to be disproved, thus if you're going to make supernatural claims, it's up to you to provide solid proof of these claims that cannot be explained by other means. It just so happens that Ouija boards can be explained by natural means, which under Occam's Razor are far more valid hypotheses.

I'm open to the concept of the potential for disembodied spirits to exist, however all of the evidence points away from that (both related to and unrelated to Ouija boards) so I can only take a more rational and unassuming stance until evidence is provided. Tell me, are you willing to accept the possibility that Ouija boards are completely NATURAL phenomena - even if it contradicts your opinion - or are you going to remain trapped in your own narrative?

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Edit: it occurs to me that Ghast is probably referring to the "suitable for ages 12 and up" sticker. Regardless of any sort of traditional origin, the American market has taken advantage of it and turned it toward children. And yes, American market - I have never even seen one in Australia. Or Japan, where I lived for a year and is a place that is full of superstition, for that matter.

 

No I am absolutely up for the possibility of it being a natural phenomenon and having a scientific reason for doing so behind the Ouija board, I was simply just quoting your reasoning Well, when it comes down to the fact that spiritualism all lies in faith, proven science seems to trump it. As for cold hard evidence, I have none. I was offering my opinion as to why I believed in an afterlife and spirits. Your logic and reasoning is very strong and I'm an open minded person. I don't mind viewing science and religion working hand in hand.

This was a fun debate if you could really call it that I at least enjoyed it ^_^

 

All that's left to say is I encourage skepticism wherever it may be applied. What may seem like supernatural phenomena to one or more people is, time and time again, generally nothing more than a set of natural, physical phenomena that are not well understood by people. Even if it isn't understood in science, once that is realised endeavours are made to understand it, and conclusions are based on evidence and evidence alone. That's actually why I think what "happens" when we die is an almost pointless debate topic, but the Ouija board provided something to talk about.

The reason why I post here is because I enjoy debating opinions, so cheers.