Trading suggestion

[Oculus Gold]

Yes I have seen the "trading system" get denied and I know we cannot suggest "Sythe Currency", which is NOT what I'm doing. Please at least read the post before denying it...

The #1 reason people dislike sythe.org is because of the scammers and how freely they can prowl the site. Nobody can distinguish who is who, even people with a decent number of vouches can go bad as we have seen.

Why don't we make an effort to bring a security aspect to the site more than just SVU and vouches... A Sythe Wallet (different than currency and I'll explain why keep reading)...

This system is fairly easy to create.... In the User center we already have this graphic:
http://i.imgur.com/XhBz3uB.jpg (Image is large not going to stretch the forum with it).

Why can we not create a "Wallet" section for all users to be able to pay the website (much like making an additional donation) and within minutes the system add those "funds" to their wallet. Users could then (like steam) send these funds to other users in return for services and accounts etc. (Now we have zero chargeback chance because all sythe wallet transactions are final).

What if a user wants to withdraw their funds? Good question glad you asked, Sythe.org charges a 5% fee on all withdrawals made by a user. Not only do we eliminate the way user's can scam others with chargebacks and such, we add a way for Sythe.org to bring in more money for the upkeep and development of the site.

Vouches and donations + SVU will always be around no question about that; however the only thing that separates Sythe.org to Playerauctions is the fact there is a 100% secure transaction.

This system would not be "forced" upon everyone, it would be a payment option. People can still foolishly use direct PP, RSGP, etc. But this option is viable because it is secure.

If you made it to this portion of the post, Thank you for at least hearing me out. I understand if this is denied within minutes of being posted, I just had to throw out a suggestion that I KNOW would be able to be added to the site....

P.S. If we are concerned about people charging back PP from sythe, we run the sign up for the wallet much like SVU and we include a clause that the funds are non-refundable. If you want to see how a multi-billion dollar company does this, read the steam wallet terms and conditions which users agree to EACH time they deposite and spend their money...

EDIT: Steam's EXACT clause:

3. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

ALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.

IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON UNTIL DELIVERY OF SUCH CONTENT HAS STARTED OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A TRANSACTION OR OBTAIN A REFUND ONCE DELIVERY OF THE CONTENT HAS STARTED OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED, AT WHICH POINT YOUR TRANSACTION IS FINAL. YOU AGREE THAT DELIVERY OF DIGITAL CONTENT, AND THE ASSOCIATED SUBSCRIPTION, AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF THE ASSOCIATED SERVICE, COMMENCES AT THE MOMENT THE DIGITAL CONTENT IS ADDED TO YOUR ACCOUNT OR INVENTORY OR OTHERWISE MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU FOR DOWNLOAD OR USE.

 

[whaatitdo]

Although your intentions and hopes are great, and as much as I wish for this to happen, we have to remember most of the people on the site that do the small buying and trading are in fact teenagers.

I would use it, but paying 5% fees just doesn't fly with myself or many people. Also, a virtual wallet/account to transfer and hold funds in is not a project Sythe is prepared for nor can do without major funds, technology, upkeep, and regulation. Not to mention customer support and real legal issues to deal with.

It's too much to ask for, imo. But I support.

 

[Oculus Gold]

Although your intentions and hopes are great, and as much as I wish for this to happen, we have to remember most of the people on the site that do the small buying and trading are in fact teenagers.

I would use it, but paying 5% fees just doesn't fly with myself or many people. Also, a virtual wallet/account to transfer and hold funds in is not a project Sythe is prepared for nor can do without major funds, technology, upkeep, and regulation. Not to mention customer support and real legal issues to deal with.

It's too much to ask for, imo. But I support.

Yea I know we have plenty of teenagers on the website, however they make small transactions on steam which is essentially the same as this suggestion. As for legal issues, I'm sure sythe has some way of handling things because a website doesn't last this long in this industry without help from legal.

As for developing, we already have the tools in place, just slightly modify the donation system to be accommodating for it.

For customer support, we have mods already and bond holders for donations which are essentially customer support, some people's permissions could cross over I would think.

I'm sure most users, if given the option to use this, would donate funds to fuel the project. Because its something that can change the entire site for the better.

 

While I am usually very supportive of finding new methods and ways to help users not get scammed or ripped off, this system seems a little bit extreme and inadequate for Sythe.

The Motto of Sythe is "The Craigslist of Virtual Goods" which entails the fact that it is a free market, where users can come and go as they please, trading along the way. Craigslist itself and other market forums like Sythe are not restricted in this format for a reason.

Not only would this System create major changes for Sythe as a whole, but it would essentially undermine and destroy the value of being trustworthy. If all purchases and cash-outs of funds are handled by Admins/Staff, there will never be any scams. If payments are held in Sythe's escrow, then there would never be a reason to build a reputation because there is virtually no reason why the customer would go to you rather than another, less trusted individual because they would know that they could never be scammed.

I also disagree with the concept of Sythe charging fees for cash-ins/outs. Sythe doesn't need to be taking a commission of all deals, and wether you think or not 5% is actually very steep. Look at some Bitcoin exchanges. Their fees are roughly .001 btc, equalling around $1 or less.

Next I would like to point out that there would have to be many more staff members to make this system successful, people would have to be online at all times of the day in order to process these funds and make sure that everything is running correctly.

It would be pointless for Sythe to implement an optional System like the one you described, because nobody would use it. The sheer convenience and ease of mind that the current system provides is a much more viable platform.

 

If site users read stickies, requested pms, used common sense, and were more cautious when trading, the number of casualties here would decrease dramatically. It's not like the majority of scams here are unavoidable, it's just they don't use simple methods to reduce the risk of being scammed.

 

Still waiting on safe bitcoin integration. Simple, very low fees, no charge backs, etc.

 

[Oculus Gold]

While I am usually very supportive of finding new methods and ways to help users not get scammed or ripped off, this system seems a little bit extreme and inadequate for Sythe.

The Motto of Sythe is "The Craigslist of Virtual Goods" which entails the fact that it is a free market, where users can come and go as they please, trading along the way. Craigslist itself and other market forums like Sythe are not restricted in this format for a reason.

Not only would this System create major changes for Sythe as a whole, but it would essentially undermine and destroy the value of being trustworthy. If all purchases and cash-outs of funds are handled by Admins/Staff, there will never be any scams. If payments are held in Sythe's escrow, then there would never be a reason to build a reputation because there is virtually no reason why the customer would go to you rather than another, less trusted individual because they would know that they could never be scammed.

I also disagree with the concept of Sythe charging fees for cash-ins/outs. Sythe doesn't need to be taking a commission of all deals, and wether you think or not 5% is actually very steep. Look at some Bitcoin exchanges. Their fees are roughly .001 btc, equalling around $1 or less.

Next I would like to point out that there would have to be many more staff members to make this system successful, people would have to be online at all times of the day in order to process these funds and make sure that everything is running correctly.

It would be pointless for Sythe to implement an optional System like the one you described, because nobody would use it. The sheer convenience and ease of mind that the current system provides is a much more viable platform.

Yes but the difference between CL and here is the vouches and community. CL is a sell anonymously and call it a day. Here we have an "identity" and reputations. There still is the way a user can scam (get payment and not send gold or whatever) so vouches will always matter. Most users use vouches to insist others go first or to have reasons for higher prices. If this came into play as a system, I would never oppose paying R2 or Arcus a premium for gold because in the end I still need to trust they will deliver it like agreed upon. However it will protect sellers in the fact that idiots who wanna chargeback PP for a 20M RSGP purchase cannot do so. (trust me it happens...)

The current system is convienient, yes its not like adding two steps for adding funds will make it worthless.... but as for it providing ease of mind.... not so much when you realize that during any give period we have about 300 users online and over 900 guests prowling the forums. These guests read nothing but scams and shit so why on earth would they make an account? To risk being had by someone? I guess I do not understand the peace of mind the current system brings you, but personally I NEVER will go first to anyone unless a MM is involved. If we can have some way of making sure that trust is a one way factor (the person who is providing the virtual gold needs the trust as the wallet funds will always be able to be sent over to the user who sold something).

If we are worried about someone scamming and withdrawing funds so that sythe cannot overturn the trade and give the seller funds, just add a 3 day delay (like paypal has to prevent overdrafting).... That's enough time for people to make scam report and have it approved. When approved the scammer has the payment they owe the person sent over, and are subsequently banned...


I would absolutely be willing to work with ANYONE on the admin team who thinks this would be a decent Idea or even worth a try. I'd be willing to write the preliminary code for the withdraw delay and wallet funds accountability function. Hell I'll even test it with my own money.

If site users read stickies, requested pms, used common sense, and were more cautious when trading, the number of casualties here would decrease dramatically. It's not like the majority of scams here are unavoidable, it's just they don't use simple methods to reduce the risk of being scammed.

True but the suggested methods are not 100% fool proof ways to not be scammed. Its social engineering at its best. Person builds a trusting rapport with the other user, they conduct the trade, chargeback occurrs.

Granted account sales will never be fixed because that's Jagex's doing....

Still waiting on safe bitcoin integration. Simple, very low fees, no charge backs, etc.

Talked to you about this earlier and I liked it as an option too lol. I mean anything using this sort of system would be an amazing addition.

 

[Tyler]

No support, current system works fine as long as we can educate people enough. no need to complicate things.

 

[Dave]

Denied.