The thread disproves god entirely

I've seen many threads here that debate the agrument "Does god exist." Well I'm going to settle this argument once and for all. Admins you can ban me all you want, I could care less, I shouldn't be banned for stating my beliefs. from evilbible.com

Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth that no sane man could deny. I strongly disagree with this assumption not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.

It is taken for granted by Christians, as well as many atheists, that a universal negative cannot be proven. In this case, that universal negative is the statement that the Christian God does not exist. One would have to have omniscience, they say, in order to prove that anything does not exist. I disagree with this position, however, because omniscience is not needed in order to prove that a thing whose nature is a self-contradiction cannot, and therefore does not exist.

I do not need a complete knowledge of the universe to prove to you that cubic spheres do not exist. Such objects have mutually-exclusive attributes which would render their existence impossible. For example, a cube, by definition, has 8 corners, while a sphere has none. These properties are completely incompatible: they cannot be held simultaneously by the same object. It is my intent to show that the supposed properties of the Christian God Yahweh, like those of a cubic sphere, are incompatible, and by so doing, to show Yahweh's existence to be an impossibility.

What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.

But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God.



What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

The Christians' objection to this argument involves freewill. They say that a being must have freewill to be happy. The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God.



Here is why the argument is weak. First, if God is omnipotent, then the assumption that freewill is necessary for happiness is false. If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. A perfect and omnipotent God who creates beings capable of ruining their own happiness is impossible.



Second, even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.

Third, God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?



The point remains: the presence of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfection of its creator.





Pwn3d


discuss.

If your going to argue with me don't bring up the "you have to much time on your hands" garbage, that has nothing to do with the existance of god. If I ask you the question to prove the bible and/or god, give me a logical answer, not "look around you, god has to be real." When I look around me, I see how HUMANS built our "beautful" society.

 

Nice copy and paste...
http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

Anyway, if there is a god, it's a deist god.

 

yes its from evil bible. i even posted the link in other topics.

 

Your just trying to use philosophy to disprove god, who says it has to be a Christian god. Stop generalizing.

 

you cant prove or disprove god so just get over yourself

 

We like having a discussion, don't post if you can't contribute.

 

Leave that shitty kind of pessimistic attitude behind. The idea of any Theistic God that I know of can be disproven with philosophy of this sort. The only kind of God we can't disprove is a Deistic God, but who wants to argue over that anyway?

There is another thread with this article by Chad Docterman in it. Anyway, yes this pretty much disproves the idea of any Theistic God that I know of. And Slave is right, if there is any God, it is a Deistic God. But then again, that has no impact on my life, so I don't care either way.

 

i dont see the point of another god or no god discussion when they just end up being a giant flame fest in the end

 

I don't see any threads about this subject that have ended up in giant flame fests.

 

The reason they end up being a giant flame fest is because it usually ends up with some moron who got offended when his or her scientific or religious beliefs were disproven. If such situation would occur, it's the Moderators job to take care of that person adequately.

 

That deosn't disprove God, just one type of God.

 

i just think people make threads about religion too much in something for all

 

To me, your part of your argument stopped there, because that isn't necessarily true.

You assume way too many things in your post, such as a perfect God cannot create imperfect people. Say if God was real, how would you know? If God was real, and perfect, why is he not perfect enough to make whatever he wants - in this case imperfect people?

 

Yes. As many of the people above have pointed out, this doesn't rule out god, just the c hristian view point of it.

I hate these threads where "god" is only the Christian one. There are so many, more better "examples" (not the right word but oh well) of god such as hinduism, where to me it actually makes sense.
Christian philosophy doesn't really make sense to me IMO.

 

I see your point in the post although i think that the topic name should be changed. You only discuss a Christian look on it.

 

If God was perfect he would have no need to create humans in the first place. If something is perfect, then all it's actions are perfect. If all it's actions are perfect, it's act of creating something must be done perfectly. If something was created perfectly, then it must also be perfect.

 

Once again, you are too narrow minded. You use science to disproove God, and God my friend, is not science. You used the example, a cubic-sphere cannot exist, just one of the many things, you try to trick to get an answer out of. Other questions such as, can God create a bolder so heavy he himself cannot lift, but then if he did, he would not be God because he couldn't life it. My answer, is he can do both.

God, is beyond human comphrehension, you can not use mere science to disproove something that has nothing to do with science. We can not even begin to understand, who or what God is.

Let me tell you a little story.

There was a student and a professor. One day, the professor was prooving to his students that God could infact, never exist, as there is good and evil, and God is pure good, how can pure good create anything evil?

A student, raised his hand, and asked the professor. Professor, does darkness exist? The professor quickly responds, well of course it does. Wrong says the student, darkness is simply the absence of light. He went on. Professor, does cold exist? A little more hesitant, the professor answered, well yes. Wrong again said the student, cold is simply the ansence of heat.

He went on with one more question. Professor, does evil exist? The professor firmly nodded and said obviously, look around. The student, firmly, but slowly, shakes his head no. No professor, evil is simply the absence of God.

Now, you may or already have guessed who the student is, for you who do not know, it is Albert Einstein, one of the greatest minds that has been on this planet.

A perfect God can do anything, which includes creating imperfections, if he cannot create imperfections, than he is not perfect, nor is he God. You disprooved yourself. God created us in his perfect likeness, what we do with it, is our own free will and choice. We are perfect in our own ways.

You believe there is no God because of science, I believe there is one, because of heart.

 

I dont believe in "god". However if somebody could provide sufficient proof or I saw "him" myself I'd believe it. But since its nearly impossible to prove or disprove almost anything I dont see anything usefull coming out of a book that a bunch of bored monks wrote up to entertain themselves and others with thousands of years ago. It would be like some random average Joe just writing a book about some random slightly beleiveable topic, for example, Scientology. Sure Jesus was probably real, he probably did get cruxified for talking about something nobody understood. But that crap about him re-incarnating and escapeing that tomb his body was in just doesnt seem at all logical. Also if god was real, why would he let his "son" be killed in the first place? And for that matter why would he let other people be killed off as well? In conclusion answer me this: If god existed and did create the universe, what basis did he go off of to create humans, and everything else for that matter?

 

If God can create something imperfect, why would he be willing? If he willed this world and the humans that inhabit it to be imperfect, is he not the cause for all the evil in this world? If he allows evil to be in this world when he can stop it at any given time, is he not at least partially responsible for evil doings? No God can be omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent. If God knows that there is evil, and can stop it, then why does he not? He must not have the will to do so, which in my mind would make him very malevolent indeed.

If we are perfect then why do we disobey God? Being perfect means being complete, needing nothing. If we are perfect, why do we have a desire to do evil?

 

For one, stop using, perfect means complete, need nothing, because in this thread you have probably used it over 50 times, and you say it whenever you get backed into a corner. And because, that isn't the full definition. The full definition is excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement, there are also many other definitions.

See, pefect does not mean one can do anything, nor that he can't do anything. Perfect, is a state of being, I could say a fork is perfect for eating things with, and, by all means, it could be called perfect, and it wouldn't be a false statement. Perfect, is exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose. And God does just that. God is perfect, and he didn't make imperfect people. God gave us free will, we can do whatever we want with it. God, will not interfere when we have a war, or a fight, or spill juice on ourselves. He made a perfect world, and perfect humans, but when we disobey God, when we think we know what's best for us rather than Him, that is when we are imperfect.

You said, well, isn't God somewhat responsible for the creation of evil, no, because evil was never created, evil is simply the absence from when God is not present in a situation.

He allows evil, because of just that, we are free willed beings. We make the choices, we make the decisions, he willed us to be free in our choices, therefore, he will not stop us, because then, we wouldn't have free will.