The Runescape Name Market....

[R0T]

Been thinking about this for a long time and its such a terrible thing/place/toxic thing that goes on/in this forum....

Daily people snipe names which eventually through new ips/various accounts and being resold a few times make it to these market sellers that in some cases sell the same names more than once over their sythe name market career. And of course they dont care because the name comes to them from someone who sniped the name and is going to sell it for a cheap price because they have no feedback and a day old account.....

1. Why isnt there a pinned thread for sniped names on the forum that is name sales?

This is a very serious thing to me cause sythe is the place really that allows name snipers to flourish......

 

I believe proof is required if someone is claiming a name was sniped from them. It's difficult to prove the person your accusing of sniping actually did It, in most cases you'll only get them banned if they admit to doing so. Also when buying names people "don't know" what names have been sniped and so buy them unknowingly. I think you can get punished if you buy a name knowing it has previously been sniped from a sythe memeber. The rules aren't crystal clear nor can they be the market as a whole is sketch.

 

[R0T]

I believe proof is required if someone is claiming a name was sniped from them. It's difficult to prove the person your accusing of sniping actually did It, in most cases you'll only get them banned if they admit to doing so. Also when buying names people "don't know" what names have been sniped and so buy them unknowingly. I think you can get punished if you buy a name knowing it has previously been sniped from a sythe memeber. The rules aren't crystal clear nor can they be the market as a whole is sketch.

Yeah it is difficult to prove who/when/which person sniped a name but when there is money to be made names that are worth 50$ or whatever arent going to just available the only way your going to get one if by intercepting a name trade/sniping so what i dont understand is..... How this is even an allowed in the market its a huge deceptive circle. A circle which in itself influences name snipers to do what they do and snipe names.

 

[Azie]

How can it be controlled? What do you suggest?

The nature of RS name trading has always entailed high levels of risk. Even when we deal with cases 80% of the reports are just one persons word against the other. In some cases because certain names are so attractive to buyers, they don't even care whether its sniped or not until they lose money or the account gets recovered.

It's encouraged that name sniping liability is discussed before the trade takes place. After that you take the risk and it either goes well for you or you just deal with it because you knew and accepted the risks.

In regards to a thread about sniped names, I'm a little surprised there isn't one created already (I'm not in the name business). That being said, I'd be happy to maintain one as it will make the name trading area on Sythe more safer for everyone.

 

How can it be controlled? What do you suggest?

The nature of RS name trading has always entailed high levels of risk. Even when we deal with cases 80% of the reports are just one persons word against the other. In some cases because certain names are so attractive to buyers, they don't even care whether its sniped or not until they lose money or the account gets recovered.

It's encouraged that name sniping liability is discussed before the trade takes place. After that you take the risk and it either goes well for you or you just deal with it because you knew and accepted the risks.

In regards to a thread about sniped names, I'm a little surprised there isn't one created already (I'm not in the name business). That being said, I'd be happy to maintain one as it will make the name trading area on Sythe more safer for everyone.

If there is a name sniping thread would there be repercussions for people who bought names from that thread ?

 

How can it be controlled? What do you suggest?

The nature of RS name trading has always entailed high levels of risk. Even when we deal with cases 80% of the reports are just one persons word against the other. In some cases because certain names are so attractive to buyers, they don't even care whether its sniped or not until they lose money or the account gets recovered.

It's encouraged that name sniping liability is discussed before the trade takes place. After that you take the risk and it either goes well for you or you just deal with it because you knew and accepted the risks.

In regards to a thread about sniped names, I'm a little surprised there isn't one created already (I'm not in the name business). That being said, I'd be happy to maintain one as it will make the name trading area on Sythe more safer for everyone.

There was one and it was removed. Since you can't necessarily prove a name was sniped (it's again just someone's word that it was) you can't keep a thread of this. It essentially blacklists names unfairly. I fought this with superman for a few weeks but they decided to keep the level of proof required for the names market consistent with the rest of the site. While in principle this sounds nice, it really does make it a haven for name snipers. It allows pretty much anyone to snipe and sell names with no repercussion since the proof required is near impossible to obtain.

 

[R0T]

How can it be controlled? What do you suggest?

The nature of RS name trading has always entailed high levels of risk. Even when we deal with cases 80% of the reports are just one persons word against the other. In some cases because certain names are so attractive to buyers, they don't even care whether its sniped or not until they lose money or the account gets recovered.

It's encouraged that name sniping liability is discussed before the trade takes place. After that you take the risk and it either goes well for you or you just deal with it because you knew and accepted the risks.

Well i just sit here and even reading this...

1. Hiqh levels of risk.
2. Large areas of grey area with cases ending in word vs word.
3. People/Large marketers selling names wether or not its stole or not... they all do it because yet again its not controlled.

^when i even read that i wonder why its allowed in the market other then the fact josh chucks out a couple 100$ to administration.

It just really is the most terrible thread in the the whole market things that are stole from other players are bought and sold and sold again over and over and over and its not moderated really at all and has been going on for along time. And the reason that this keeps happening is because the names just float around and change hands hardly ever getting banned/account bound which does happen but not often.

 

[R0T]

There was one and it was removed. Since you can't necessarily prove a name was sniped (it's again just someone's word that it was) you can't keep a thread of this. It essentially blacklists names unfairly. I fought this with superman for a few weeks but they decided to keep the level of proof required for the names market consistent with the rest of the site. While in principle this sounds nice, it really does make it a haven for name snipers. It allows pretty much anyone to snipe and sell names with no repercussion since the proof required is near impossible to obtain.

Thats the thing though are we talking about odds and likely hood that a random player created an account and chose the name "*", That was being transfered in the exact 1.7 seconds that it was being moved/sold/traded legitimately i dont think anyone could get away with acting that ignorant about it.... the odds of that happening are far from legitimate.....

I dont understand how this is allowed in the market thats all, people are selling stolen items "names" to legitimate market name sellers who then are reselling them for a profit which then get transfered sometimes dont successfully if the right methods used but eventually the person looses the name to a sniper and again the whole cycle repeats itself.....

The name sales market as it currently stands allows and aids people to snipe/steal names.... bring them back and sell them to market sellers who then sell them for a profit its very lucrative and should really be a topic in the market re-evaluated as a whole imo.

 

[Azie]

If there is a name sniping thread would there be repercussions for people who bought names from that thread ?

No because there is a huge blind spot. The list would only act as a heads up that certain RSN's have been sniped in the past so if you want to buy it, buy at your own risk. People could buy names right now not knowing whether its sniped but with a thread there is a chance they could.

There was one and it was removed. Since you can't necessarily prove a name was sniped (it's again just someone's word that it was) you can't keep a thread of this. It essentially blacklists names unfairly. I fought this with superman for a few weeks but they decided to keep the level of proof required for the names market consistent with the rest of the site. While in principle this sounds nice, it really does make it a haven for name snipers. It allows pretty much anyone to snipe and sell names with no repercussion since the proof required is near impossible to obtain.

Yeah I see what you mean. I guess traders need to take more responsibility in trades like these and understand the risks before proceeding. If the trade goes well good for you otherwise unfortunately deal with it. It may sound harsh but thats the nature of the RS name trading market.

 

[R0T]

No because there is a huge blind spot. The list would only act as a heads up that certain RSN's have been sniped in the past so if you want to buy it, buy at your own risk. People could buy names right now not knowing whether its sniped but with a thread there is a chance they could.

I guess when i look at it in the market as a whole i see it similar to an account being sold. If an account is scammed/stolen added to the list of accounts not to buy/trade, if they change hands and the accounts in the hands of someone else are they then allowed to resell the account even though it has bad trade history? I do understand in ways this is a different case between accounts and names but im just trying to outlay the point that names are constantly being sniped and resold on here and markets like sythe and others are enabling this to happen.

I think that part of the market should be reviewed as a whole its not safe and toxic to the market as a whole and there has to be a better way of doing it, that wouldnt be just not allowing it of course.

 

[Azie]

I guess when i look at it in the market as a whole i see it similar to an account being sold. If an account is scammed/stolen added to the list of accounts not to buy/trade, if they change hands and the accounts in the hands of someone else are they then allowed to resell the account even though it has bad trade history? I do understand in ways this is a different case between accounts and names but im just trying to outlay the point that names are constantly being sniped and resold on here and markets like sythe and others are enabling this to happen.

I think that part of the market should be reviewed as a whole its not safe and toxic to the market as a whole and there has to be a better way of doing it that wouldnt be end in just not allowing it of course.

User AA wants to sell [name] to user BB for 200m 07.
User AA snipes the name during name xfer but claims it wasn't him
User BB has 200m but doesn't want to pay because he didn't get the name

How do they prove what happened? How can a middleman help in this situation?

User AA would only get banned if proof is provided. If user AA later tries to sell the name again and gets caught they would also be banned.

If users have spoken about where liability falls if the name gets sniped then usually the case gets dealt with fairly quickly - this doesn't mean justice was given to the actual scammed victim. It's an accepted way to deal with these reports because of the nature RSN markets have and because it shows both traders understand the risks.


User AA wants to sell [name] to user BB for 200m 07.
User BB snipes the name during name xfer but claims it wasn't him
User BB has 200m but doesn't want to pay because he claims it wasn't him

How do they prove what happened? How can a middleman help in this situation?

User BB can only be banned if proof is given. If user BB later tries to sell the name again and gets caught they would also be banned.

The only way to catch snipers is if they try to re-sell a name they claimed was sniped. Right now majority of buyers wouldn't know whether a name has been sniped hence snipers getting away with re-selling unless the buyers know the market very well.

With accounts being sold it's 100 times more simple. Account problems gets sorted by account seller and account is given back to account buyer or a full refund is made.

 

[Aklan]

We've had this debate a couple of hundred times already

Here's another example, believe me we've tried...
Rule Reform: Sniped/Scammed RSNs

 

Thats the thing though are we talking about odds and likely hood that a random player created an account and chose the name "*", That was being transfered in the exact 1.7 seconds that it was being moved/sold/traded legitimately i dont think anyone could get away with acting that ignorant about it.... the odds of that happening are far from legitimate.....

I dont understand how this is allowed in the market thats all, people are selling stolen items "names" to legitimate market name sellers who then are reselling them for a profit which then get transfered sometimes dont successfully if the right methods used but eventually the person looses the name to a sniper and again the whole cycle repeats itself.....

The name sales market as it currently stands allows and aids people to snipe/steal names.... bring them back and sell them to market sellers who then sell them for a profit its very lucrative and should really be a topic in the market re-evaluated as a whole imo.

It's not a matter of that, it's a matter of snipers sniping a name, sitting on it for a few months and then selling it to a name seller. The name sellers don't often keep track of the names on the market since doing so would be incredibly tedious. Sythe has taken the stance that it's not the mod's job to actively search out information as the police would. Instead, mods are to look at the information presented in a report and rule on that information, as a judge would. It's a ridiculous and sad policy, but that's another discussion altogether. Basically, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has sniped a name. Just because two people claim it was sniped during a transaction a couple months ago does not prove that it was sniped, that the new seller has sniped it, or that the new seller knowingly bought a sniped name. Basically: without an admission from the sniper, it's impossible to reach the standard of proof required for a ban.

No because there is a huge blind spot. The list would only act as a heads up that certain RSN's have been sniped in the past so if you want to buy it, buy at your own risk. People could buy names right now not knowing whether its sniped but with a thread there is a chance they could.



Yeah I see what you mean. I guess traders need to take more responsibility in trades like these and understand the risks before proceeding. If the trade goes well good for you otherwise unfortunately deal with it. It may sound harsh but thats the nature of the RS name trading market.

It's not about risk, it's about how the market is set up. Since it's pretty much impossible to prove someone sniped a name from you without an admission from them, a sniper could easily set up shop, start sniping names and reselling them. It's already a haven for snipers and removing the ability to claim when a name was recently sniped has only made it more dangerous for legitimate buyers and sellers and easier for name snipers to grow their business. That's why I left the market, because it's really a shit hole and I was told by administration, at least at the time, that it'll just have to stay that way.

 

User AA wants to sell [name] to user BB for 200m 07.
User AA snipes the name during name xfer but claims it wasn't him
User BB has 200m but doesn't want to pay because he didn't get the name

How do they prove what happened? How can a middleman help in this situation?

User AA would only get banned if proof is provided. If user AA later tries to sell the name again and gets caught they would also be banned.

If users have spoken about where liability falls if the name gets sniped then usually the case gets dealt with fairly quickly - this doesn't mean justice was given to the actual scammed victim. It's an accepted way to deal with these reports because of the nature RSN markets have and because it shows both traders understand the risks.


User AA wants to sell [name] to user BB for 200m 07.
User BB snipes the name during name xfer but claims it wasn't him
User BB has 200m but doesn't want to pay because he claims it wasn't him

How do they prove what happened? How can a middleman help in this situation?

User BB can only be banned if proof is given. If user BB later tries to sell the name again and gets caught they would also be banned.

The only way to catch snipers is if they try to re-sell a name they claimed was sniped. Right now majority of buyers wouldn't know whether a name has been sniped hence snipers getting away with re-selling unless the buyers know the market very well.

With accounts being sold it's 100 times more simple. Account problems gets sorted by account seller and account is given back to account buyer or a full refund is made.

Let me tell you the issue with this.

User AA would snipe the name, hold onto it for a little bit, find a new buyer and a new middleman who are unaware and simply repeat the transaction. Say they eventually get caught, oh well. They just make a new account, rinse and repeat. It's very common to see half a dozen or more known snipers continually ban evade to do this. By removing the ability to claim when a name is sniped, now only a couple big name sellers who know the market and the people very well know about sniped names. No one else has the chance to know since it cannot be posted.

 

[Azie]

It's not a matter of that, it's a matter of snipers sniping a name, sitting on it for a few months and then selling it to a name seller. The name sellers don't often keep track of the names on the market since doing so would be incredibly tedious. Sythe has taken the stance that it's not the mod's job to actively search out information as the police would. Instead, mods are to look at the information presented in a report and rule on that information, as a judge would. It's a ridiculous and sad policy, but that's another discussion altogether. Basically, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has sniped a name. Just because two people claim it was sniped during a transaction a couple months ago does not prove that it was sniped, that the new seller has sniped it, or that the new seller knowingly bought a sniped name. Basically: without an admission from the sniper, it's impossible to reach the standard of proof required for a ban.



It's not about risk, it's about how the market is set up. Since it's pretty much impossible to prove someone sniped a name from you without an admission from them, a sniper could easily set up shop, start sniping names and reselling them. It's already a haven for snipers and removing the ability to claim when a name was recently sniped has only made it more dangerous for legitimate buyers and sellers and easier for name snipers to grow their business. That's why I left the market, because it's really a shit hole and I was told by administration, at least at the time, that it'll just have to stay that way.

When I mention risk I use it in a more going forward context. Nothing can be done about the nature of the market so traders should accept risk and deal with it.