The Existence of God

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

The burden of proof is upon you.

 

Well, I am a christian, and i do believe in god, but you say their is no evidence proving that god is real... i believe there is, but theres too much to list. So you all shoot down chirstianity, yet we could easily shoot down thearies such as the big bang... now what I'm gonna say next is gonna be hard to foolow, but try and keep up:

Now people that believe in the big bang believe that we were created after a star exploded (im not sure of the exact details) and for there to be life on earth a huge number of coicidences occurred to make it the perfect place to live... the perfect % of all the different things in air, the atmosphere, and all you need to suport life. Now scientists that believe in the big bang also say that space goes on forever, for infinity, and the big bang was a chance, all the different coincidences happened by supposed 'chance'. Except if space goes on for infinity, that means that even if the chance of the earth being created perferctly to support life is 1/1000000000000000000 of a chance, since space goes on for infinity the chance MUST have occurred infinite more times, and since humans are created by chance (genes and DNA from parents , etc) that means there is infinite worlds out there that are exactly like this with EXACTLY the same people, someone that looks exactly like me typing this exact thing.... so really, do you belive in parallel universes? the world was not created by chance... there must be some kind of creator, thats why I turned to christianity

 

I'm sorry it doesn't work that way. if you believe in something its up to you to prove it , extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

 

To start off, I have been a christian all my life, i go to church every Sunday, and participate in the church. That being said let me go on to my belief.

To me, a God has to exist, because let's go to the beging how was the universe made,planets,meteors, everything? Well a typical answer i get when asking this is " Oh well, object A makes up object B which made up object C which then collided..." and so on so forth. We'll let's say object A was an atoms which then made up the rest of chain and eventually ended up to where we are now. Well what made the first atom?....
Some when asked this would say subatomic particles that combined to make the atom. Okay good answer, well what made up the first subatomic particles?.. Now either two things happen there. A. They realize my point. B.They say" well something smaller than that not yet discovered" then we get in a whole back and forth conversation that ends up with my point.
What made the first object?.. my only answer God.

 

what made god than ? perhaps those partials always existed

i used to be like you very relgiouns but when i was about 12 i sat down and read the bible when i finished i was an atiesit this is my favoruit bible verse

2 Kings 2:23-24 (New International Version)

Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

why didnt jesus jsut summon bears when he was going to be crucified

give me a break the bible is nuts and its what the christian faith is 100% based on its 21st cenetry grow up and start living in the real world

relgion is dying fast here in europe anyway i only know 1 person that goes to church and thats my 90 yearold granny

 

If they always existed they were here the first second of the universe, in which place they popped up. What made them pop up? They didn't appear out of nowhere by themselves and decided they would form all of humanity.

Also about the bible and verse and whatnot, i never said anything about the bible and its verses. I posted on my beliefs the existence of God only, which is the topic.

 

The burden of proof is upon you.

Question: Will you be shooting down the Big Bang theory with "this is ridiculous" arguments, or are you prepared to debate the science of it?

Out of the hundreds of billions of planets in the universe, a fair few are probably going to have conditions that can support life.

Also, I'd like to see how you arrived at that number.

Argument ad ignoratum.

 

I beleive in God because I dont buy the fact that nothing made everything.
Plus I find it hard to beleive that nothing made matter, space, and time, and that its just luck that we have what we need.
I also find it impossible to beleive that we are just given bodies with such intelligence, ability to heal ourself and perform such functions becuz nothing imploded. No offence if you dont beleive butI dont care for theories that say otherwise. Ive though about it a long time and frankly all the annoying arguments are just annoying now

 

1) "I don't bother reading other, more accurate theories. The one I've grown up with must be accurate."
2) Argument ad ignoratum; "I don't think it's *this* that created everything, so it MUST be God."

 

Matter and energy is infinite, according to the first law of thermodynamics. This outrules creationism. Nowhere does it state that 'everything came from nothing'. This is your everyday Christian propaganda.

 

That's not what the first law of thermodynamics states either...conservation of mass is different from infinite energy and mass. Perhaps in ideal conditions an infinite amount is what you are referring too, but you just because Euclid saw perfect shapes and lines doesn't mean they are actually that way...

 

By "infinite", I think he means infinite in terms of a beginning and an end - that matter/energy have no beginning or end.

 

maybe, but if energy can't be created or destroyed, that means there is a finite amount.
i'm muslim, and believe in a God not because of the creative beliefs, but because of the hope that it brings to the billions of people who believe in a superior force of some sort. Even if God doesn't exist, the hope that the thought of him brings, to all the people who believe in him, is to me, extraordinary.
Then, the chance of everything just occurring without some kind of "help", is infinitely minute, and combined with the "miracles" that happen, to me the chance of A superior force existing is more than everything just occurring out of coincidence or evolution.

[edit] stop bitching at darren, the people who are, this is a debate, and we're allowed to express our views.

 

If God doesn't exist, belief in him is completely irrational. Why does belief in him bring hope? Can't you find hope in a similar way by praying to your computer screen or a piece of paper or your imaginary friend - something equally "powerless" and unable to help?

Argument ad ignoratum. Wait, so you don't believe in evolution either? There's almost unrefutable proof

 

in reply to your first point, i mean it's similar to a placebo effect. If God does exist, good. if he doesn't, because we think he does, we "depend" on him, and he brings us hope, just like a placebo. If we KNOW he doesn't exist (there is no definite proof to God's existence, though neither is there definite proof that God doesn't exist) then you're right, there will be as much effect as praying to a computer screen, which we KNOW is powerless.

in reply to your second point, i do believe in evolution, but not to the extent of everything being a product of evolution or coincidence. I believe there is another force behind it, which may be a superior being, force, or just pure luck. There is just more chance of some kind of superior force, than pure chance, in my view.

 

Here is why I don't belive in your guy's "god". Well why is every god besides our god a myth huh? Why can't there be more than one god. So why can't there be one? I rest my case, either there is no god or billions of gods...

 

ask every single person their opinion, and they will have one, if they are able to express it.
firstly, it doesn't make too much sense, i understand what you're saying, but you haven't thought out what you said.

in my view there is only one God, he is just disputed upon, about his details, views and traits. Until God makes himself evident, either in afterlife (which i believe in), or ultimately at the end of time, if such a phenomenon ever occurs, we won't be sure, and will always argue.

also, if you believe that the universe was created by chance, you have to believe that there is a chance of anything happening, even the laws of physics being nulled by an oddity, so that disproves your whole argument.

 

I'm curious as to how you believe that when intellectually, you know that you're deceiving yourself.

Do you have evidence of an additional force?

If he believes that the laws of physics could suddenly change, that does not refute his argument. It's simply an awkward part of it.

 

I, personally, do not follow religion. I would like to point out that Christianity is a relatively recent religion, which was based on Judaism, which was probably based on an even more ancient religion that is unknown. If there is a God, it is not the one Christians believe in.

I think the idea of being strictly religious is also ridiculous. I have no need to waste my Sundays going to church to mutter hymns, it benefits no one least of all myself. If there IS a God, I don't think it would require us to pray and sing songs. Hypothetically, if there was a God, I believe all that would be required is to be a good person in general.

It is interesting that I referred to the hypothetical god as it, a gender neutral noun for God. Many refer to God as male, but (again hypothetically) could you all be disillusioned? Is it not unthinkable that God could be a woman?

I see no evidence of God though. Religions live and die. In a thousand years, Christianity will be replaced by another religion (perhaps sooner). If everyone followed their faith and every faith's gods were real, then there would be hundreds of afterlife options and many gods.

Religion is also the major cause of wars. A religious figurehead is ten times as powerful than a president in a country where that religion is dominant. Countries goes to "Holy" war. Its ridiculous, not to mention hypocritical, as one of Christianity's 10 commandments is not to kill.

Religious figureheads also cover up where they know there faith is wrong. Common church goers blindly believe everything, when the Christian leaders has done some of the biggest cover up jobs in history. None of these are well known, or there would be no Christians. For example, the Gospel of Mark. Mark actually wrote two gospels. One revealed the truth. The Heretical Gospel of Mark. Mark was nearly burned at the stake for writing it and nearly every copy was burned. The Christian church has made many more cover ups where their religion has been proven wrong. And this is only one of many religions.

In closing, there is no proof of God. Also, the incentive of afterlife should not lead someone to live a good life, people should do this just to be good people. Faith just creates problems; if everyone just tried to do some good, and stopped squabbling about which religion is true, when they are all most likely based on the first religion, which is unknown as it would be so ancient. So no, I don't believe in God, but I do believe men and women alike should just do good and adhere to their moral values just because they should.

 

Until there is proof against a superior force, i will believe in God. This might be irrational, but the fact that the majority of people in the world believe in God or something of the sort, drives me to believe that obviously there is a chance of His/Her/Its existence.

Do you have evidence that there isn't one?