Sythe Chat System

[Ritysayo]

I've read a few threads speaking about a code system or better methods of verification to prevent scams. People are already encouraged to supply a private message during transactions, to document/record everything, and reputable Middlemen. There are many methods to stay secure and make sure the person you're trading is the real person on Sythe.

During the OS Runescape days, I use to be an active member on fagex.net and occasionally used Sythe. I have been around these type of discussion boards for a long time, but the system of black market transactions has never really changed.

Has the Staff administrators ever thought about creating a more prominent system that could be profitable for the website itself? I have a few suggestions about how to improve the site in multiple aspects, but there might already be known reasons these ideas won't work. If there are clear reasons Sythe has not changed after all of these years, I would love to hear them.

I guess the best approach to this is to list out the suggestions with brief explanations.

Sythe Transaction Chat

Create a messaging system for the website that is sort of like a private and secure chat room that can be activated between members. When someone is selling a service or product, a seller can send a trade notification to the buyer based on the forum post. A time and date will be requested by the seller that the purchaser will have to accept then. Once the time is confirmed by both members, they will be sent a private message to a Sythe communications room that can only be accessed by the IP addresses used to accept the transaction date/time.

This system can be modified to different specifications. There are many variables to consider and adjust before actually releasing it.

If the members want to use middlemen, then verified agents on the website will have a list displayed that the two members can scroll through. They will find an available date/time on their schedule, and it will have a biography about the middleman when clicked on. The description of the intermediary will show their referrals, some transactions they have done, the sum of money they have been involved with, and their price for being a middleman. Anything that is relevant to them. This agent's availability can be based on a scheduling system or just an everyday available system where the broker turns on when they're at the computer.

The text in these chat rooms will automatically be logged for future records and saved on the cloud. The middleman or two members can control the room using different features to match the process of the trade. It would be a type of status updater.

The rooms will be used to verify Sythe member identities. Every time a transaction is going to be placed, the members and middlemen will have to check that they're in fact the Sythe user, using their verified email addresses that have been registered to their account for a length of time. An automated message will be sent to their emails with a code which will be used to "verify".

I believe that this system would take a little time to create, and a fool-proof plan would need to be implemented. If the Sythe staff don't know how to implement such a system, they could hire someone to create it securely. Would this be costly? I doubt it would be over $2000. They could most likely find a professional group of developers on freelancers.com or something.

Sythe staff could potentially turn this into profit if they wanted. They would be provided a professional service with much more security than the modern day system of these type of discussion boards. They could charge a flat percentage on every transaction using their system and post their sponsorship's on their new chat system.

Anyway, I have a lot more thoughts on how to improve my suggestion. My system's concept has already been explained, so now I'll leave it to the community and staff to tear it apart with feedback.

 

[Dunworry]

We just recently removed out SytheChat because it was practically never used

 

[Ritysayo]

We just recently removed out SytheChat because it was practically never used

I know my post was rather long but are you speaking about the chat box or the type of system my suggestion was about?

I'm not exactly active on Sythe, but I don't remember any system that I'm talking about being a portion of the site. My thread name is a little misleading. Maybe I should change the name of the thread?

 

[Moes]

SytheChat was an instant messaging system linked to Sythe users. It was a place where Sythe users could chat securely with other Sythe users in private or public chatrooms. It was rarely used and not as extensive as you suggested.

The reason why it was rarely used was probably that it had a lot of bugs and the ugliest design ever. It also wasn't really integrated into the forum. I do think a secure instant messaging system integrated into the forum could be beneficial to Sythe.

 

[Ritysayo]

SytheChat was an instant messaging system linked to Sythe users. It was a place where Sythe users could chat securely with other Sythe users in private or public chatrooms. It was rarely used and not as extensive as you suggested.

The reason why it was rarely used was probably that it had a lot of bugs and the ugliest design ever. It also wasn't really integrated into the forum. I do think a secure instant messaging system integrated into the forum could be beneficial to Sythe.

Thank you for the explanation.

Based on the way you explain it, it sounds like it needed a lot of improvement rather than a deletion. I'm surprised the design was mediocre quality because Sythe has always been filled with talented graphic designers.

Do you have any idea why it was not pushed into later stages of development? If the reason was purely for the lack of activity, your comments might explain it. Those type of features cannot be published without being finished. Otherwise, they will receive the same punishment from the community as this example. In my eyes, it looks like it would have a lot of potential if properly implemented.

If this thread gets a bit more feedback, I'll spend a night and write out a project proposal with much more detail than this thread's original post. I just didn't want to spend the time and effort if it was going to be immediately shut down.

 

[Superman]

Thank you for the explanation.

Based on the way you explain it, it sounds like it needed a lot of improvement rather than a deletion. I'm surprised the design was mediocre quality because Sythe has always been filled with talented graphic designers.

Do you have any idea why it was not pushed into later stages of development? If the reason was purely for the lack of activity, your comments might explain it. Those type of features cannot be published without being finished. Otherwise, they will receive the same punishment from the community as this example. In my eyes, it looks like it would have a lot of potential if properly implemented.

If this thread gets a bit more feedback, I'll spend a night and write out a project proposal with much more detail than this thread's original post. I just didn't want to spend the time and effort if it was going to be immediately shut down.

See here for the owner's explanation:

People go to an effort to download an install and secure skype. I don't think effort is the problem. The problem is adoption. People already have a chat platform of choice (skype) and that's what their chat partners/trade partners also have.

Sythechat was a Jabber server setup to interface with the sythe database. Any Jabber client could connect and I made efforts to encourage people to use it in this way. The web chat interface was just that: a web client.

No one used it because no one wants or needs it. They have one or more chat solutions already that they are happy with such as: skype, facebook messenger, discord, etc. We were trying to launch an unneeded product into an over-serviced / saturated market. You can always say the implementation could have been cleaner, faster, better, etc. but this is just another way of saying that it's not really needed. In other words it would have to be so amazing that it would pull people away from their established and familiar chat solutions.

As far as what people really want when they say they want sythe chat: They want a stupid IRC with Sythe users but not Sythe rules to muck around in and call each-other faggots. We can't provide this because people will naturally complain that Sythe rules aren't being enforced, and that XYZ who was banned is still on chat and then they insinuate that if we let them remain on chat when they are banned then we are corrupt.

It's not a problem that needs a solution from us. If you want a group chat to dick around in you have 100,000 options available including the unofficial discord Ryan just set up.

 

[Ritysayo]

His thread explains a lot. I believe I could still debate a point. He hit the ball out of the park with his explanation to the previous chat system's failure. My response would be in the form of a question.

What did the previous system contribute that modern chat software doesn't already provide?

The answer is:
Nothing.

Of course, no one would adopt a new chat platform when it doesn't benefit them in the least bit.

My proposal is a system developed to help users in multiple aspects. Bringing them MM services at a moments notice by trusted members of the community. To provide archived logs to protect users. A verification method to ensure you are trading with an account that has access to an email address associated with the account for an extended period. Popular Sythe threads or sponsorships can have listings on a section.

Keep in mind; these chat rooms would be three-man rooms created each time a transaction is going to take place. They wouldn't be public areas for spam. If anything, there could be a lobby page before entering the trade chat rooms which could have an open chat room.

The key to making it successful is adding in helping utilities. Getting feedback from the community and growing it based on popular belief is how it would grow. To understand what the biggest sellers and middlemen would want for features.

This is not only growing the community, but it could be profitable for middlemen and Sythe owners. I believe it might encourage people to use the website more often.

See here for the owner's explanation:

 

[Superfluous]

the costs of doing this are high and not worth the rewards. we already gave sythechat a go and tried to get some of the things you talked about to work on there. it just didn't happen; some things need to die

 

[Ritysayo]

the costs of doing this are high and not worth the rewards. we already gave sythechat a go and tried to get some of the things you talked about to work on there. it just didn't happen; some things need to die

Yeah, I understand your perspective. I didn't experience SytheChat first hand, but I'm under the impression that it was never done correctly.

Imagine you have two houses for sale.

House A is beautiful with fresh paint, sleek modern designs, and in a big neighborhood with a lot of people.

House B is unstable, ugly, and in a small neighborhood.

If you display the two houses and ask people which one they would rather purchase, I think the option is quite obvious.

Now, what if we began adding security, fresh coats of paint, sleek modern designs, and many functions that House A does NOT provide. What if statistics say that 1/5 people will have their house robbed while staying in House A?

The moment you begin diversifying and bringing new elements to House B, people will begin changing their mind. You cannot show them the broken down House B and expect anyone to want it. If you leave House B the way it was, apparently no one will want it.

That is the moment you need to make a decision. Do you make House B into something? Or demolish it?

In my past experiences, demolishing is a waste. If you are able to improve the system to the point that it is being used and improving the community, why not take advantage of it?

I don't believe there is any correlation between the previous chat system and the my suggestion's objective. You cannot compare the original House B to the improved House B because they're completely different. Using the statistics from the original House B to verify the improved House B will fail isn't realistic.


EDIT:
I will leave this thread for the rest of you to decide. I've been debating my perspective to encourage everyone to view it in a certain light. This post explains that perspective pretty nicely. I'm starting to border on idealistic rather than realistic because at the end of the day; this would be a small investment for Sythe; although it would make him profit in the long run.

 

[Superfluous]

yeah what im saying is its not worth the effort to build up another chat system, and the chat system itself isnt gonna make the site much more profitable if you're taking the misguided economic approach

 

[Amei]

I think something else that is important to consider is that a lot of unregistered members use Sythe and will prefer to contact you through Skype. With a number of the active market users being active on multiple forums a centralised Skype is much easier than going through Skype & a chat service purely for Sythe.

Looking back to when my team were active and I could run services often I had a few people who would refer me customers from elsewhere, and at our peak probably somewhere in the range of 25-40% of them didn't have a Sythe account for whatever reason.

With everyone advertising their Skype (unlikely to change with the bigger market users) I can't see a chat service on here ever taking off. PM's seem to work well as it is.

 

[Meteor]

Considering basically everyone in the market already uses Skype, I definitely feel that it would be incredibly difficult to get people to switch over to using your proposed chat platform (and having a charge per transaction isn't going to help with adoption either). It doesn't really bring much more to the table that Skype doesn't already offer besides the fact that it would be integrated into Sythe. I do see the benefits of not having to rely on third-party software, but honestly Skype isn't all that insecure, and using it seems like less of a hassle than the system you're suggesting.

 

[Ritysayo]

I believe that the system would need to be explained clearly if it were to be released. A page dedicated to helping members understand the benefits. It feels to me that too many people are caught up in the idea that it is the same as Skype. When in fact, the chat section of this software would just be human-to-human interaction during the trade's progression. Security is the real purpose of this idea. The biggest downfall that leads to people leaving the community is being scammed.

Skype isn't all that insecure

There is a huge portion of the Sythe community that has been affected by scams due to impersonations, Sythe/Skype hacked accounts, etc. This system is supposed to give better security measures than average chat messengers to reduce the magnitude of scamming that occurs currently. The whole "my account was hacked" excuse won't be an issue anymore.

Skype isn't insecure if you are comparing it to a pure chat system without security measures and accessible utilities. Which is exactly the opposite of what I am proposing. Please take notice that without the utility functions of this proposal, you would obtain the same results as the previous chat system.

a lot of unregistered members use Sythe and will prefer to contact you through Skype

That is the point of how it would become economically beneficial to Sythe. Unregistered members would register to participate in the transaction services that Sythe's community has been providing over the years. While being associated with the website, they grow an identity and trustworthiness.

You don't find people having an issue registering to most other websites or communities like PlayerAuctions in order to exchange virtual goods.

having a charge per transaction isn't going to help with adoption either

The idea is to charge for advertisement space, grow the community with more registered users, and have the possibility of taking a certain percentage during transactions. Many members pay for a middleman's service. Adding another puny percentage on to go to Sythe wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Example: Purchasing 10M OSRS for $100. Middleman fee: $5. Sythe fee: $1.

Once again, these are only ideas to benefit further from the system. I'm only a single man, yet I can come up with multiple ways to obtain a profit from its usage. I'm sure a group of management could come up with much better and ideal methods.

 

[Pain]

No support .


We've been there, done that, No-one wants another sythechat or anything similar unless its built into the site which would take Sythes/Matthews Time.

 

[FireZ]

locked as explained