Rsps section drop trading rule.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Pikachu, Oct 17, 2024.

Rsps section drop trading rule.
  1. Unread #1 - Oct 17, 2024 at 6:00 AM
  2. Pikachu
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Posts:
    72,037
    Referrals:
    13
    Sythe Gold:
    22,019
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    1053278217252900944
    Discord Username:
    abm_8
    Verified Ironman I saw Matthew Member of the Month Winner Detective Toast Wallet User
    Sythe's 15th Anniversary Nitro Booster (2) Two Factor Authentication User Staff of the Quarter Winner Poképedia Valentine's Day 2020 Valentine's Day 2019 Torchbearer 2016 Easter 2017 Easter 2016
    Christmas 2022 Christmas 2021 St. Patrick's Day 2017 Christmas 2016 MushyMuncher Summer 2022 (2) The Glizz Halloween 2023

    Pikachu Runewager.com - Osrs Gambling
    Global Moderator Bond Holder Cool Cat Steve

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    Describe the problem:
    The RSPS drop trading rule.

    What current rule(s) address this problem:
    In the RSPS section, the main trading method is either through an account with gold or via drop trading gold. In most cases, staff are forced to rely on the following rule:
    The main issue is that most of the gold being transferred is outsourced, and traders aren't conducting the necessary checks due to the high ban rates on these servers compared to OSRS. It's clear that we need to overhaul the rules in this section, but finding a solution is challenging.

    The main problem is that it's difficult for us to prove anything, and this section has always had traders with lower standards compared to others.

    Explain the change:
    This is a unique case where I don’t have a good solution and am more so looking for ideas from the community. A few potential ideas include:

    • Assign responsibility to the person who suggests the trading method first.
    • Assign responsibility to the party outsourcing the gold, as they are typically the main vendors in this section and are often not conducting full checks (we could allow the party to bypass this by recording the transaction, but the issue here is cheat engines).
    • Keep our current stance of not getting involved at all.
    I’m looking for ideas from the community and for the staff team to discuss. If you like any of the ideas above, please mention why.

    Explain why this change will fix the problem:
    N/A

    Side-effects:
    Hopefully a better solution than our current one.

    Note:
    If we do make a change to this section, it shouldn't extend to the OSRS section, as they aren't forced to use these subpar methods.
     
    ^ suedi likes this.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2024
  3. Unread #2 - Oct 17, 2024 at 8:38 AM
  4. Utopia
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2023
    Posts:
    280
    Referrals:
    0
    Sythe Gold:
    4,670
    Tier 1 Prizebox (15) Potamus (3) Lawrence (4) Gohan has AIDS (7) Heidy (3) Poképedia Pokémon Trainer Two Factor Authentication User

    Utopia Formerly known as Gartec
    Velasso Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    What do you mean the gold being traded on a private server is being outsourced? You mean dropshipping?

    What checks would be necessary to avoid a ban? And are sellers being punished for buyers being banned?

    Sounds like buyers should be required to record their transactions to be protected in the case of a report.
     
  5. Unread #3 - Oct 17, 2024 at 9:36 AM
  6. Kanye
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Posts:
    112,558
    Referrals:
    10
    Sythe Gold:
    119,626
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    932742226746953810
    Discord Username:
    kanye_
    Two Factor Authentication User March Madness (2) Summer 2022 Summer 2024 Verified Ironman Ursaring Homosex <3 n4n0 Potamus Gohan has AIDS

    Kanye
    $300 USD Donor New Gentlemen Global Moderator

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    What’s stopping a buyer from removing the gold in some way & then re-logging while then starting the recording and claiming it’s not there?
     
    ^ President likes this.
  7. Unread #4 - Oct 17, 2024 at 10:43 AM
  8. Utopia
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2023
    Posts:
    280
    Referrals:
    0
    Sythe Gold:
    4,670
    Tier 1 Prizebox (15) Potamus (3) Lawrence (4) Gohan has AIDS (7) Heidy (3) Poképedia Pokémon Trainer Two Factor Authentication User

    Utopia Formerly known as Gartec
    Velasso Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    Just say the recording must start prior to confirmation on both ends being submitted during trade window and must not end til the transaction is completed. You can also make it so gyazo video links are only accepted, or an alternative form of media that cannot be altered in it’s original state.

    To combat manipulation of said media, only allow 1 link to be permissible in the report. If you thoroughly explain the Do’s & Do Not’s in the sticky then it should be easy to handle in reports. I’m not sure if it is possible, but it should be made so the new sticky must be viewed before entering said forum/posting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2024
  9. Unread #5 - Oct 17, 2024 at 11:56 AM
  10. Kanye
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Posts:
    112,558
    Referrals:
    10
    Sythe Gold:
    119,626
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    932742226746953810
    Discord Username:
    kanye_
    Two Factor Authentication User March Madness (2) Summer 2022 Summer 2024 Verified Ironman Ursaring Homosex <3 n4n0 Potamus Gohan has AIDS

    Kanye
    $300 USD Donor New Gentlemen Global Moderator

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    That’s a stretch for a multitude of reasons:

    - Gyazo may have time limits
    - some of these RSPS dealers/buyers can barely operate a PC (to put it as nicely as possible)
    - These conversations/trades take a very long time so it wouldn’t be feasible IMO

    We already have stickies in sections as well & people don’t follow it. Making more stickies just means more stickies for people not to follow.
     
    ^ BlackBlasses likes this.
  11. Unread #6 - Oct 17, 2024 at 12:11 PM
  12. Utopia
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2023
    Posts:
    280
    Referrals:
    0
    Sythe Gold:
    4,670
    Tier 1 Prizebox (15) Potamus (3) Lawrence (4) Gohan has AIDS (7) Heidy (3) Poképedia Pokémon Trainer Two Factor Authentication User

    Utopia Formerly known as Gartec
    Velasso Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    The only logical solution to this problem is to get unaltered video evidence of the trade commencing. Still-images or chat texts are insufficient proof to verify a complete trade. I’m not saying it should be mandatory to record a trade being done, but instead it being for protections when it comes to making a report.

    In response to your earlier points, I am saying to start the video recording at the time of the trade commencing, not at the beginning of a conversation between both parties being had. In the video, it must show the profile of the user in the trade, the chat text verifying both parties are in the trade window (for example; “this is you?”), and both parties accepting the trade window for a complete transaction. There are other alternatives to Gyazo. This again is just a suggestion of the type of software that cannot be altered.

    It is also important to come to the realization that not every trade is done so in a way that follows procedures in stickies to a tee. The purpose of the stickies is to not put blame on the outlet (Sythe), that allows these trades to happen. It is best to view it as a guide/warning for optimal trade practices.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2024
  13. Unread #7 - Oct 17, 2024 at 5:30 PM
  14. j2s
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Posts:
    6,044
    Referrals:
    5
    Sythe Gold:
    6,650
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    607370264673517600
    Discord Username:
    j2sgp
    Gohan has AIDS Lawrence Pokémon Trainer

    j2s mr robot
    $300 USD Donor New

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    I had typed out a very long response with an inordinate amount of rambling but decided to pull back and list some takeaways.

    - Some RSPS traders do not play on the servers that they advertise on. This is especially true for someone trying to sell on multiple servers at once. That means they don't know much about the intricacies of the server, or about the staff team, or money makers. Their knowledge about the server is very limited.

    - There is a base level of deception that happens when buyers might inquire about bans and what they can do to get ahead of it (e.g disputes that have buyers saying "I asked to not be given a venny account but was given one anyway!"). Some RSPS traders write off bans as entirely luck based rather than looking at empirical insights such as logs/monitoring/alerting that RSPS staff use.

    - RSPS Traders very rarely actually PERSONALLY verify if someone has the RSPS GP they intend to sell, so they end up blindly middlemanning trades. The reasons for this vary, sometimes they're banned on the server, sometimes they're afraid to log on and flag an account with their IP, etc.


    ---
    There's multiple points in the trade where things can go wrong:

    - The "supplier" can lie to the RSPS Trader and say they have a certain amount of GP even though they don't.
    - The buyer can lie to the RSPS trader and say they never received the gold.


    From the supplier side, I'd say you need an RSPS trader to be able to produce evidence that GP existed pre-sale on any kind of dispute (an image can be tampered with too easily). Screen sharing live while the sale is conducted would be a good example of decent proof. If a dispute arises and the RSPS trader cannot prove without a reasonable doubt that the exact GP existed pre-sale, then a TWC on 1st offense, DNT 2nd offense etc is warranted, imo.

    The buyer side is going to be a lot more difficult to verify, but from personal experience I know it's not very easy to move GP around on RSPS without setting off alarms, so the buyer would be doing themselves more harm than good trying to do additional xfers after receiving the GP from the sale itself which can further alert RSPS staff and increase the buyers odds of being banned. I'm pointing this out because staff saying "we cant possibly know what happened in the seconds/minutes after you said the gold was xferred/handed off", and that thinking is not exactly 1:1 to OSRS because nonchalantly trying to move that GP an additional time will greatly put the buyer at risk. Repeat customers in RSPS understand this relatively well.
     
    ^ Bert, Pikachu and Zora like this.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2024
  15. Unread #8 - Oct 18, 2024 at 2:29 AM
  16. Phantom_X
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Posts:
    1,527
    Referrals:
    0
    Sythe Gold:
    2,799
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    909512696146300978
    Discord Username:
    phantomx69
    Heidy (2) Lawrence Extreme Homosex (2) <3 n4n0 Homosex Potamus

    Phantom_X discord.gg/TradeMyGIM Buying/Selling GIM Items!
    Phantom_X Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    The seller should be responsible for delivery concerns by default. In theory they should be required to have a "system" in place that protects them and the buyer.

    Outsourcing exists in every market, if there is a concern a seller doesn't have stock they should be forced to show current stock to sythe staff if requested, as required in other sections if they have something for sale they may have to prove it.
     
  17. Unread #9 - Oct 22, 2024 at 6:02 PM
  18. Primal
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2020
    Posts:
    136,837
    Referrals:
    145
    Sythe Gold:
    241,432
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    943219807451480085
    Discord Username:
    primalrs
    M
    Nitro Booster Baby Yoda Valentine's Day 2019 Easter 2017 Halloween 2015 Green eggs and spam Christmas 2019 Valentine's Day 2020 CoolHam Easter 2023
    Summer 2020 Hoover Hey... this isnt a fun rank Easter 2020 Valentine's Day 2015 Some like it hot <3 n4n0 Extreme Homosex (3) Penguin Homosex (4)
    Potamus (3) Gohan has AIDS (2) Heidy (2) Lawrence Rupee Tier 1 Prizebox Shitting Rainbow Christmas 2013 Two Factor Authentication User Pokémon Trainer

    Primal Primalrs.com - your runescape one stop shop
    Primal Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    Agreed, put liability on the seller, from there lineair responsability to supplier in case of disputes, I'd highly recommend screenshare as a requirement from the moment login data is provided & showing the entire login process from the buyer. Then there's little to nothing that could go wrong
     
    ^ Phantom_X likes this.
  19. Unread #10 - Oct 24, 2024 at 4:04 AM
  20. Bert
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    Posts:
    30,850
    Referrals:
    243
    Sythe Gold:
    134,275
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    852575300579622982
    Discord Username:
    bertgold
    CARRRRL that kills people Baby Yoda The Dark Side (2) Stormtrooper Radioactive Wubba Lubba Dub Dub The Mortyest Morty Diamond Quagsire Wooper
    Ninetales Primeape Weedle Wurmple Spinda Chingling Swellow Tangrowth Wynaut Snover
    Piplup Penguin Kingdra Seadra Yanma Venomoth Drifblim Snubbull Magikarp In Memory of Jon

    Bert Runestake.com - Slots & Original Games

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    I believe we can establish clear guidelines for these types of trades to help prevent scams. One effective method would be to require a screenshare where the gold supplier logs into the account that will provide the gold. The supplier should remain on screenshare while sharing their account information with the middleman.

    Then, the buyer initiates their own screenshare to enter their account details, but stops before clicking "login". At this point, the middleman can ask the supplier to log off. This way, the buyer is ready to log in immediately as soon as the supplier is off the account, ensuring there's no time for the someone to transfer the gold elsewhere.

    Additionally, implementing a PIN on the account can further protect against unauthorized access and an additional potential of the gold ending up in the wrong hands. This eliminated any risks, as the pin will be provided after the buyer logs in the account which eliminates any risk of another party gaining access to the account with the gold since they are not able to do anything without the pin.

    I know I’m not an expert in RSPS trades, but I believe these measures can be straightforward to implement and could significantly improve the trading environment for everyone involved in the RSPS section.

    Please feel free to share your opinons and how we can implement some rules which can insure the trades going smoothly for all parties involved, may it be using some of what I listed and mixing it up with other methods such as an obligation of recording of the whole trade going on with screenshares etc or may it be something completley different! Please do not hesitate to share your opinions even if you think what you are saying sounds stupid... I am looking forward to reading your responses!
     
    ^ Primal likes this.
  21. Unread #11 - Oct 25, 2024 at 2:53 AM
  22. suedi
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2023
    Posts:
    5,371
    Referrals:
    1
    Sythe Gold:
    6,738
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    291642645179269120
    Discord Username:
    suedii
    St. Patrick's Day 2024 Valentine's Day 2024 Easter 2024 Christmas 2023 Pokémon Trainer Secret Santa 2023 March Madness May the 4th Be With You Two Factor Authentication User

    suedi
    suedi Donor

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    Disband RSPS section! - jokes aside

    I agree with the following;


    • Assign responsibility to the person who suggests the trading method first.
     
    ^ Bordercollie127 likes this.
  23. Unread #12 - Oct 25, 2024 at 11:44 AM
  24. Bordercollie127
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2021
    Posts:
    5,260
    Referrals:
    0
    Sythe Gold:
    5,230

    Bordercollie127 Hero

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    This, but all the big ass donors should know enough to avoid the drop method..... if they're the ones who suggest doing it they should be slapped with a TWC just for suggesting it cause they know they can get away with a easy scam because of it.
     
    ^ Pirate and suedi like this.
  25. Unread #13 - Oct 25, 2024 at 8:26 PM
  26. Pirate
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Posts:
    16,701
    Referrals:
    14
    Sythe Gold:
    944
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    219503210560225280
    Discord Username:
    Pirate#0069
    Detective Two Factor Authentication User Staff of the Quarter Winner St. Patrick's Day 2024 Hoover The Glizz Verified Ironman Dragon Claws Nitro Booster (3)
    WoW Classic

    Pirate

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    as others have stated, the seller should be held more responsible as they need to prove delivery of said gold to the actual customer, drop trading it does not prove that the customer received the gold. but good suggestion
     
  27. Unread #14 - Oct 25, 2024 at 11:43 PM
  28. Zulu
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Posts:
    4,498
    Referrals:
    2
    Sythe Gold:
    16,241
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    432730441435447309
    Discord Username:
    its_zulu
    Staff of the Quarter Winner Member of the Quarter Winner Member of the Month Winner Two Factor Authentication User Village Drunk Oktoberfest 2013 Baby Yoda The Dark Side May the 4th Be With You
    Diamond Diamond Pickaxe The Glizz Green eggs and spam Pizza Muncher March Madness (3) Top Striker Pokémon Trainer (2) Poké Prizebox Pokémon Master
    Tier 1 Prizebox Tier 2 Prizebox Tier 3 Prizebox Tier 4 Prizebox Tier 5 Prizebox Tier 6 Prizebox Community Development Team Member Steelix Torkoal Moltres

    Zulu
    Market Moderators Our Community Moderators Zulu Donor CDT Member

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    My suggestion is to implement the following into the [Section Rules] Private Server Marketplace sticky.


    Risky trading methods:

    Account Transfers:
    • If you are outsourcing your trade, all parties involved must be notified before the trade.
    • As a re-seller (middleman), if you do not properly inform your supplier and/or buyer that you will not be verifying if the gold is on the account, you will be required to provide proof of the gold being on the account at the time you delivered the account, in the event of a dispute by the buyer.
    • As a re-seller, you may state in your Terms of Service that you will not be verifying the gold is on the account, and the supplier will assume liability/burden of proof for any missing gold on the account in the event of a dispute from the buyer.
    • Screenshots of a bank/inventory will not be considered sufficient proof of delivery in the event of a dispute.
    Drop Trading:
    • Staff will not get involved in any dispute that involves drop trading. There are multiple ways where it could go wrong and there's 0 reason to be drop trading to begin with. If users want to engage in riskier trades, they are free to do so since Sythe is a free market. However, Sythe Staff members will not see this as a valid report if something were to go wrong.
     
    ^ Primal likes this.
  29. Unread #15 - Oct 27, 2024 at 7:21 PM
  30. Wolf
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2021
    Posts:
    6,697
    Referrals:
    1
    Sythe Gold:
    7,070
    Vouch Thread:
    Click Here
    Discord Unique ID:
    911273815634489425
    Discord Username:
    troll00000
    Valentine's Day 2023 March Madness Heidy Gohan has AIDS

    Wolf Formerly known as Mustache
    $200 USD Donor New

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    Dont get involved
     
  31. Unread #16 - Nov 1, 2024 at 9:25 AM
  32. Gregory
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Posts:
    1,061
    Referrals:
    3
    Sythe Gold:
    435
    Verified Ironman Valentine's Day 2020 St. Patrick's Day 2021 Nitro Booster St. Patrick's Day 2017 Member of the Month Winner Heidy Detective <3 n4n0 (2)

    Gregory #1 Discord Gambling Server - No Verification
    $200 USD Donor New

    Rsps section drop trading rule.

    RSPS trading with handling over an account, is a method where everything can go wrong and there is no way to proof who is liable.
    Buyer can take/drop the gold then saying, there wasn‘t any gold on the account.
    Seller could possibly log into the account and take the gold themself.
    Outsourced person can put gold on the account, send proof of gold to the seller and then remove the gold.

    i personally see only 1 possibility here, where staff can get involved in a dispute.
    Both people need to screenshare through call that the details are being handled over and the buyer logging in. The seller should record this transaction for further proof.

    If we take the tos of Zulu:

    This tos can possibly be abused by the sellers to remove any liabality. Making it easier for the scammers and ban evaders in this section to scam others.
     
    ^ Zulu likes this.
< Disallowing the employees of business's advertised on Sythe to have there own thread. | >

Users viewing this thread
1 guest


 
 
Adblock breaks this site