Reporting 'Grave'

Link to scammers profile:
http://www.sythe.org/member.php?u=163331

Amount scammed: $20.00 USD

Thread of agreement:
http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=993847

Verdict:
http://sythe.org/showpost.php?p=7816964&postcount=25
http://sythe.org/showpost.php?p=7817007&postcount=29

Total amount to be paid: $153.00
(HossBoss ended up paying the remainder of what was owed.
I was shocked, but misclicked lateron in the wilderness to lose it all. Regardless, HossBoss paid his part of it.)

What happened to the money:

• $27 (Grave deducted for Microsoft Points that were used on his Gamertag from a year ago, when I was given permission to use them and was given the Gamertag initially as I was going to be buying his Xbox, but he later withdrew. He did, however, use my spending of the Microsoft Points as leverage and I decided to let him get away with it.. even though he NEVER wants the Gamertag back and doesn't even care about it. There's also 2,000+ Points still remaining on it that he doesn't care about.. so I'm not sure about this)
• $20 (Was given to me to get 20M back on RSC because Grave wouldn't accept a Santa back [I lost a Santa, but he wanted cash instead of my Santa]. I ended up losing 200M because I had no cash but only items. I got the 20M and was waiting for him, because I needed the $20 in order to pay the entire amount owed on the Laptop as my brother couldn't pay for it)
• $6 (Was sent as Goods & Services instead of a Gift because I needed $5.00 to help mother pay for some gas [if I recall correctly]. Marcell sent this through his PayPal as Grave was using it at the time.)
• $80 (Was sent instead of the $100 remaining as Grave said he wasn't going to accept the 20M now unless I bought him a membership pin, even though he had business for it and plenty of connections. Was just an excuse to get out of paying back more money that wasn't his. He said that I could submit a scammer report to resolve it if I wanted to.)

I sent a scammer report via PM to Tyro, as he was the one handling this after giving a final decision on the thread while working with FireZ. Tyro resigned the next day and I had already deleted the PM from my sent folder. I couldn't contact him, and he's now been banned from Sythe.

Proof of refusal to pay $20 shown below:
http://i52.tinypic.com/2ypgdjk.jpg

 

Posting on behalf of Grave.

 

I was given the Gamertag because you included it in the purchase of the Xbox. I made a down payment of $50, but you were having problems with selling it because you didn't want it to go bad. It had nothing to do with the price, but you thought that it might break down or stop working. You gave me permission to spend the Microsoft Points. I asked you over MSN. I can say that you were somewhat held back in letting me, but you had me do it anyways. Lateron you told me to get on a site with the Gamertag too and purchase a game because it was on sale for only 20 MSP, and you thought I might have fun playing it.

You also said over MSN that you never wanted the Gamertag back and didn't care about it, because you have a new one. And the Gamertag still has over 2,000 MSP on it, which you care nothing about.

I didn't come here disputing that either, but simply because it was included in the agreement, and something that I allowed to be deducted from the payment because I was trying to be fair to you since it was such a large sum to be repaid.

I believe that's actually true. I lost 20M, but I gave you a Santa back as repayment, as they were 20M at the time. You didn't want a Santa back, but you wanted repaid 20M. You gave me $20 to get this with, but I needed the money to help pay off the laptop or I was going to have to give it back. I only had items but no cash, so I decided to try and stake to get the 20M, because I didn't want to sell any of my items. I had made back all that I ever wanted, but ended up losing all of it and ending up with the 20M. You then decided that you didn't want it, and screw me out of it by saying that you wouldn't pay the remainder and I could dispute it as shown above.

I'm not insisting that at all. All I was stating was part of the payment. Just keep on trying to make me look bad.

You rarely even brought this up, and it had nothing to do with membership.

Because the Staff made the decision, and you had already invested the money in something else, whereas you didn't wish to have to pay any of it back.

I never put the price on the gold. You were the one who did, as you were trying to find people that weren't well-known buyers/sellers or ones with an extremely low post count. You decided that $20 was a decent amount, as you were in some non-caring mood, and sent it. If you didn't think that it was fair, you would have sent another amount instead.

REGARDLESS.

Whether the mills are price at "this" amount or "that" amount, you would still have to pay back the SUM that was so ordered. And in the end, I'd still give you that 20M as a refund, as it has nothing to do with the situation. It's something that you wanted paid back, but doesn't even factor into this. If I would have purchased the gold from someone else, it would have then factored in, but I got the 20M myself. Therefore, it has nothing to do with the repayment.

I love how you make it sound like nothing. A "mere" $50, but scamming $20? What is that, right?

Also, I ASKED you before I even sent it how much you thought I owed you. It was something like $45-$50, so I then played a joke on you saying that a payment you had sent me at one time got claimed back and I was freaking out to make you log on to your PayPal. You then did so and saw I had paid back the amount of $50 from which you said I had owed you. To say that such a payment exceeds $100 and even $200 is ridiculous. It never even got close to $100, yet alone $75, etc.

Look here:
http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=995411

He decided to make the thread after being pissed off of constant contacting me over MSN or LoL when I would log on and I wouldn't sell any accounts of his for him on Sythe. He was a banned member of Sythe, and I found it to be a possible violation of the rules of doing so, and I would also put myself at risk.

Revy's scammed me, he's hacked me, and he's tried to ruin my reputation anywhere I go ever since we've ever met. It most likely has something to do with Tyler Watkins as well, as he lived in my area, and he scammed people all the day. Although I didn't support his actions, there was nothing I could do about it, but had nothing to do with me.

Also, Revy and I were NEVER good friends. He NEVER let me borrow anything. Your post here is yet again trying to trash my reputation, and try to make it out that I'm a bad person that owes people hundreds of dollars in an attempt to get yourself out of a repayment once again.

Both of these statements are irrelevant, and have no reason being posted here without proof. I could very well say things as well, such as "I've trusted Finn with over $5,000 in the last month in a trade I almost did." However, thing is there, people would know I'm lying about that, and if Finn saw it, he'd definately know. Revy and Chris may/may not be hard to contact, but if they were asked about the situation, they'd obviously back you up with or without proof.

If it was over 2 years, then I would not have even paid you until October of 2010, because I didn't become active on Sythe until October of 2008. Where I hadn't even met you until months and months lateron. At the most you may have waited 6-10 months for a repayment, when not even asked, I finally had the funds available and decided to pay you back while I still had the opportunity.

If you are given enough time to get membership on your account, then why didn't you say just that instead of making an incredibly long post to try and trash my reputation? If you agree to a repayment once you get membership on your account?

If we were here to trash reputations, then I would start bringing up some complications that you were having within your own business, RSUltimate, by screwing over Hahanerd when you kicked him out. But why wouldn't I bring up such a thing? Perhaps it's because it's something I know nothing about.

I didn't squeeze anything out of you. It was your decision whether or not to do things, not mine. And in the end, you were repaid (all except the 20M, which I've had waiting for you for months now - And no, you hadn't mentioned it in at least 6+ months). And I'm not one bit deceitful. I ask you a question or ask you for some help. You agree, and I'm being deceitful because you decided to try and help out? Or your just stingy about the entire situation even though I've tried to work with you?

I already told you when this whole situation rose up with HossBoss. I didn't like it, and I was sick and tired of it keep coming up. It was so ordered that you would have to pay back X amount, and I tried to work with you, where it then turned ugly because of your PayPal being locked and things continuing to drag on.

I'm not the one at fault. I've tried to help. I've tried to be your friend. But you always look at me as if I'm the devil. You keep becoming friends with the wrong group of people, but hope it won't affect you as it did the first time. We could make low blows all day about each others past, but it has no relevance here, and only wastes the Staff's time as they have to read such long, ridiculous stories.

 

Can one of you please explain the 20M/Santa situation from start to finish? I'm a little confused on what happened.

 

Grave lent me 20M on RSC to stake with as he never played, and I was hoping to win so we would both have 20M. I ended up losing, and refunded him later by giving him a Santa. He then lent me the Santa lateron, in which I lost.

He was then trying to include this situation in the list of things he wanted back as well, which I have readily available on an account now after losing 200M worth of items to get it (probably would've been best to sell my items, but I didn't want to lose what I had always dreamed of having back).

In all, this 20M has nothing to do with this situation. I have the 20M on an account ready to give to him now for months, but he's trying to bull shit his way out of it.

 

Posting on behalf of Grave.

 

I didn't lie about this. If I could check the logs on a PayPal that's still locked for $16.00, or if I could bring them up. I'd show you. Now this turns into a he say she say affair for it was so long ago. I paid you $50 last year as a down payment on the Xbox, which you lateron REFUNDED to me because you were going to send the Xbox. Without the $50 payment, I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN YOUR GAMERTAG. That is the reason you gave it. YOU WERE INCLUDING THE GAMERTAG IN THE PURCHASE OF THE XBOX.

Jesus christ.

I mentioned it. But I thought I had lost a Santa initially instead of 20M. Regardless, I agreed to losing an amount of up to 20M, which makes the Santa irrelevant.

I didn't put the price on the gold. I told you to find a price for it because you were being so difficult. You were in a rush and decided to just send $20 instead, WHICH WOULDN'T MATTER ANYWAYS, because $20 was part of what you had to pay me anyways. The 20M was just something on the side, which I got myself, so it shouldn't even be included ONCE AGAIN.

I didn't make the price. I was citing things, and with the Mrr Matt for $0.15/mil, I said that it was a lie. I stated who actually sold the mills for him, and they were at a MUCH higher price. Trying to cite trusted sellers (R2P/Plznate), was where I was trying to find prices, but we couldn't agree, so you decided on something.. which.. doesn't matter.. because I got it myself.

I don't owe you for ANYTHING else. You're yet again having a he say she say affair because you have nothing that you can cite. Once again, trying to trash my reputation. Just because I had owed you something in the past, you keep trying to stack shit on top of it, with no proof or recollection of any such events requiring a repayment.

I had it for at least 5-6 months now. You hadn't asked me about it in at least a year, when I didn't have anything. I got back into RSC and made quite a bit of money, just to lose it all trying to get 20M to pay you. I could've lost a lot less. Yes. But that's not the point.

This 20M is irrelevant for the 40th time. I have it. You want it. Get online like I've said for months instead of avoiding it or trying to use it as leverage to get out of a payment.

Point being? Come get it.

Indeed. But you felt scamming and making stories / citing past events was a better route when I felt this would also be a good time to settle anything else I might have owed you. But do we see anything else added? No. Do we see you trying to claim there's hundreds more? Of course. Bunch of bull shit.

What happened to it after you finally got it unlocked?

But you'd rather drag on a 10-page story instead of just repaying it because you'd rather get out of it all.

Appropriate meaning? And I have no problem giving you that 20M. I never had the problem. YOU WOULDN'T ACCEPT IT BACK.

Break it down to this so you understand.

You would owe me $40 still. I owed you 20M on RSC. You sent me $20 to get 20M RSC back. I got it myself. You didn't want it, still owed $20, and decided not to pay.

You would owe me $40 still. You would send me $40. I would give you the 20M I have as you owed the $40... which has no relevance to the situation unless I didn't have the RSC GP and you decided to pay for it yourself.

It has no relevance here, and now you're trying to scam me twice? In the end, you still owed "X" amount, I had 20M RSCGP for you, and there is no connection as I GOT IT MYSELF.

 

This is pathetic. It's not our job to deal with petty squabbles, and it looks like you two have the mother of all petty squabbles, as well as some backasswards ways of paying off debts.

As far as I'm concerned, this entire report is just one kid who thought he could bully the other kid, and the the other kid called his bluff and tattled to Mommy. That being said, you guys realize that you've typed up a masters thesis over a $20 dispute? Grow up, children; this is the real world. But anyway, it's my job to ensure that there is safe trading on Sythe, and so that's what I'm here to do. It looks like the 20m was lent by a friend, to a friend, as a completely off-site thing; since this trade was not documented whatsoever, I can't do anything about it. It seems to me as more of a thing you two need to work our personally rather than publicly here in the RaSc.


TL;DR: I am obligated to stick with the ex-admin and the ex-global moderator on the decision that Grave has to pay Unb4nn3d $153 in full, regardless of whatever pillow fights and slumber parties you two have had in the past. As far as I can see, Unb4nn3d claims Grave sent $133 in total and considered an old, old, old past debt as the remaining $20. I'm not going to accept that debt from a friend to a friend as payment because it's simply too backasswards. Sorry.

Unb4nn3d, file a new report in two days if he fails to pay you.