Reporting Alice for selling the same name twice.

[Mdavids1109]

[ PLEASE NOTE I DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN EITHER OF THESE TRADES]
The reason I am posting this thread is to discuss and hopefully resolve the reason that the RSN 09 was sold twice by the same trader.
My friend Jinz being the first trader is not very familiar with sythe and originally had asked me to help him get in touch with name traders. I immediately told him to contact Milotic & Closer (Now Alice) as the names he was enquiring about were of a high value & I had known these two to deal with rsn's of this calibre

He has also asked me to submit this report on his behalf but if any contact if needed you can reach him
at: Jinz#0381

Before I begin with the relevant proof I would just like to mention that the Trader - @Alice has removed their discord account making it quite difficult for either party to go back through chat logs and obtain relevant proof.
I have for the first trade only the conversation of myself & Jinz#0381 talking about the trade having happened & also when the snipe occurred.

Evidence of Conversation of trade/snipe between myself & the first buyer:
Imgur
( I understand this isn't solid proof, however, I'm sure an admin can understand the circumstances given the trader has deleted her discord account preventing Jinz from obtaining proof of this).

Yesterday while speaking to another sythe user s/he had informed me that the name * 09 * had recently been traded again & of course I asked who sold it.
S/he informed me that it had again been sold by @Alice and showed me this relevant trade proof.
Imgur

I have asked @opftw to if they can send me a screenshot of this Conversation that includes the date as that has been cut off in the screenshot sent to me.

I understand that both of these buyers had purchased the name and then later tried to move the name themselves and had it get sniped. However, I think given that the name was re sniped by the same trader, held for a few months then sold again we really need to look at who we are trusting to trade/transfer names.
I'm not sure if there are official rules in place to stop this from happening but I believe there is something seriously wrong if someone is selling a name then setting up a system to make sure that RSN is reclaimed if the buyer tries to move it.
I also think it is quite wrong that the trader would hide this from the person who lost the name to them taking it back.
Either way could an admin/mod take a look at this and get in touch. I think trade proof of the first trade will need to be obtained. Jinz was just unable to do so due to the circumstances.

 

Alice doesn't use Sythe anymore. From what you've posted, it looks like she transferred the name to both buyer's account of choice. Only after the buyers attempted a transfer themselves did they lose the name. Why would you report her for that? She did her job getting it on the customer's account.

Also, as a side note. There is nothing against the rules about selling a name more than once. I sold Demon like 4 times (or something idk) and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't really get what you're reporting her for.

 

[Mdavids1109]

Yes correct the buyer in both cases had the name successfully transferred to their account during the transaction taking place.
However in both cases the name was then taken when they tried to move it to a new account.
Of course in name sales this is always something that can happen, that is understandable and not the fault of the original seller.
What I am getting at here is;

Why is @Alice selling a name and then looking for the first opportunity to take it back so s/he can sell it again?

I don't know about you Milotic but I definitely don't think it's okay for a trusted name seller to even try and reclaim/snipe a name that they have sold to a client.

If this name had been sniped by another person and then sold at a later date that would be a different story, however personally I feel that the original seller having a bot or system in place to reclaim/snipe a name once s/he already has sold it to someone is kind of sketchy.

-Not that this last part is relevant to my report whatsoever but if you think doing this is okay it really makes me question by what methods you managed to sell the same rsn 4 times.

Either way I will leave this report up for an admin to take a look at.

 

[Alice]

I always offer to transfer the name with full snipe responsibility. Not my fault or problem if a buyer doesn't have me transfer it to the account they want to keep it on. You realize that in a market like name sales, many people do it to flip and profit? Names circulate and are constantly bought and sold. Like @Milotic mentioned with Demon, sometimes a name can be flipped several times over. There's plenty that I've bought and sold more than once, because why not if there's room for profit?

A large majority of people that bought names from me had me transfer it for them, because they realize the risk from snipes, so they utilize me offering a guaranteed transfer for them. Something that I've tried to force all sellers to do to protect buyers: Change to Name Sales

And, out of this majority, most keep the name and never have any issues. If a buyer has me transfer it to the account they actually want it on in the first place, or come back to me to ask me to transfer it for them again if they change their mind, then it wouldn't get sniped. But I can only do so much to help people. If someone wants to risk transferring it on their own sometime after buying from me, that's on them.

-Not that this last part is relevant to my report whatsoever but if you think doing this is okay it really makes me question by what methods you managed to sell the same rsn 4 times.

Either way I will leave this report up for an admin to take a look at.

Like I said, it's a market. There's plenty of names that don't stay with the same person after being sold - they're free to sell it themselves (whether that's to flip themselves for a profit, or to take a loss on because they don't want it anymore).

Jumping to the conclusion that selling a name multiple times over is wrong shows a lack of general market knowledge. It's not like someone selling an account, recovering it, then selling it again. I sell a name -> buyer receives the name because I transferred it for them -> they mess up by trying to transfer it themselves later (when they can just ask me to transfer it again in the first place).

Lastly, like @Milotic said, I don't use Sythe anymore. Not for the market or the community. I've been fairly busy lately, but if something is needed for the report, mods feel free to message me and I'll try to respond quickly when I have time. Thanks.

 

[Mdavids1109]

It really seems you've avoided the ultimate question here which is why are you, personally ( being the person selling the name to these people) going out of your way to reclaim/snipe a name that you have sold to someone?
There should be no reason for you to even try and reclaim a name if you have already sold it. If it gets sniped by a 3rd party and you decide to re-purchase it again that's a different story. However I feel like that isn't the case here as if so why wouldn't you have mentioned to the oroginal buyer that you had located their name & asked them if they still wished to buy it again.
Given that in the case of Jinz#0381 he told you that the name had been sniped while trying to move it & you helped him to purchase a new rsn off of you.
If you did infact have access to the name he had lost why would you not tell the original buyer about this.
Just seems sketchy imo.
Big difference between something getting sniped/taken & a seller having a system in place waiting to take back a name they have already sold.

 

[Mdavids1109]

I sell a name -> buyer receives the name because I transferred it for them -> they mess up by trying to transfer it themselves later (when they can just ask me to transfer it again in the first place).

The flaw is that it's more like:
buyer receives the name -> you put a system in place to make sure you can get the name back if they try and move it -> buyer decides not to pay the 100M fee to move it again -> you reclaim the name when they try and move it since you know this person isn't a trader and therefore you can take advantage of them - > you get the name back and their money -> you sell the name again.
Rinse & Repeat.

I have read your thread about insisting Name Sellers move all names or use a name transfer service & thought this was a brilliant idea, however at the time I didn't realize that if people didnt want to use your service or your own customer's didn't use it that meant that YOU personally would put a system in place to reclaim names.

 

[Champ]

@Alice Can you provide proof of purchasing the name?

 

[Alice]

@Champ - yes, see above.

 

[Champ]

@Alice Can you provide how you obtained the name after March? The user who was selling it in March had the name sniped, how did you manage to obtain it again after March? Your proof of buying is in February, but you recently just sold the name?

 

[Alice]

@Alice Can you provide how you obtained the name after March? The user who was selling it in March had the name sniped, how did you manage to obtain it again after March? Your proof of buying is in February, but you recently just sold the name?

Bought in February, had it until May 01 when @opftw bought it.
♥ [$200 Donor] Alice's Name Sales [Verified Cute By Milotic] ♥

I had the name throughout March, so I don't know what you're asking here. No one had it sniped from them in March.

 

[Champ]

@Alice Contact me on Discord to discuss.

Discord: Champ#6303

 

[Champ]

This report has been resolved, I made a minor mistake on reviewing the dates from Discord US and UK.

Example:
US shows: 01/04/2018
UK shows: 04/01/2018
My apologies @Alice

Therefore, the time stamps @Alice has provided is 100% matching with everything else. If there is anymore proof you can provide feel free to contact me, but that is all for this report.


Feel free to contact me on Discord if you have any questions / concerns.
Discord: Champ#6303

 

[Mdavids1109]

[private]
@Champ Here is the proof that the name was purchased by Jinz as previously I was unable to add this.
I would just quickly like to add as you can see in the final screenshot he asked Alice that if she heard anything about the name could she contact him.
Given she has just told us that she purchased it again only 1 month later I really am curious as to why it was so hard to tell the original owner that she had it again.
By the way is this "proof" she has sent you that she had re purchased it from a 3rd owner after it was taken from Jinz?
May I ask which sythe user this was?
I find it very hard to believe that any random non trader would have known that this rsn was in circulation again and the means available to take it within a half second of its moving.

 

[Champ]

I find it very hard to believe that any random non trader would have known that this rsn was in circulation again and the means available to take it within a half second of its moving.

This report has already been resolved, if you have any questions, feel free to contact me on Discord.

Discord: Champ#6303