[Denied] Suggestion Regarding Recovery Responsibility

Most trusted account sellers do not provide their buyers with any form of personal/recoverable information for the accounts they sell [including, but not limited to, creation details, previous passwords, membership codes, etc.]. The logic behind doing so is that it protects the interests of both the buyer and the seller in the event that foul play should occur. I agree with this reasoning, assuming that the seller is the original owner.

A trend began a couple years ago in the OSRS account marketplace. As a stipulation of purchase, some "highly trusted" account sellers make it a purchase requirement that they also retain sole access and ownership of the email linked to the RS account after it sells. To put it in other terms, the buyer cannot link their own email to the RS account. This is a non-negotiable, even if their buyer is as trusted/more trusted than they are. At this point, the seller maintains all of the account's personal/recoverable information as well as the OG and/or linked email to the account. The only info the buyer receives is a PW change link. The only info they'll ever have on the account is ONE password. The buyer is then told that he cannot sell the account, but that the seller will buy it back at a significantly reduced price should the buyer ever want to get rid of it. Effectively, the buyer is renting the account from the seller.

Ultimately, I have issues with this and think it makes exit scams insanely easy [See @Azie - https://bit.ly/3gZIvi6], but that's not the point of this suggestion thread. It's a free market, after all, and a buyer can choose from whom and how they purchase an account.
Here's where the issue lies - As it stands, we only require sellers provide one month of recovery responsibility on accounts. When someone "highly trusted" sells an account on the premise that it is absolutely safe [whether OG or not], retains all of the personal/recoverable information, and retains sole access to the linked email address, I believe a longer recovery responsibility length should be required. After all, the claim behind retaining ownership of the linked email is that they are more easily able to assist with recoveries.

The default recovery responsibility time frame by sellers who do not agree on something specific is two years. I think it's more than fair to require a 1-2 year responsibility period for sellers who retain linked email account access.


EDIT: A COUPLE PEOPLE REALLY STRUGGLE WITH COMPREHENSION OF THIS SUGGESTION. THIS ONLY APPLIES TO ACCOUNTS BEING SOLD OF WHICH THE SELLER MAINTAINS ACCESS/OWNERSHIP TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS LINKED TO THE RS ACCOUNT AFTER IT IS SOLD.


Example #1: @Zora offers a lifetime warranty if the buyer agrees to let him retain email ownership. This is the right way to do it, in my opinion. [https://bit.ly/3616bwg]

Example #2: Just listing ToS as to not call anyone out.

ACCOUNT SALE TERMS OF SERVICE
- I will hold the recovery email for the account, but will give you a password reset link to set your own password, i'm available almost 12hours a day via Discord if any issues arise. If this worries you at all, you probably shouldn't be in the market for buying an account, because I would be able to recover if I actually wanted to steal it back. This only makes it easier with potential locking of the account, and or recovering it if you somehow get hacked.​

- I will fully refund you within 6 months if I can not retrieve the account for you if it does somehow gets hacked.
- I am not responsible for any bans that occur on the account after the purchase. So don't try to bot on the account and request a refund, it won't happen.

 

I don't disagree that recovery abilities do change over time and have actually made several posts articulating similar points on previous recovery responsibility suggestions. If that logic is true specifically to the instances I mentioned in my suggestion, then there would be no reason why sellers would even need to/want to retain email access on a sold account in the first place. The whole point of retaining the email is to provide stronger recovery services and security to the buyer. Why not offer a longer recovery warranty then?

Simply not true in the situations my suggestion addresses. If you as the seller and original owner of a 2K+ main retain ALL recovery information, ALL personal information, AND the linked email, I have zero doubt that a buyer with ONE password would ever be able to recover the account within the course of the first year of ownership.

My suggestion is ONLY addressing account sales in which the seller requires retention of the linked email address. I have no issue with 1 month responsibility on all other sales. Do a little research, no "highly trusted" user requires that they retain the linked email on new/low levelled accounts. It's only on very high profile accounts.

 

What? I never addressed any personal experience, much less with one account. I made an arbitrary and generalized reference.

Yeah, I've looked through your sale threads. You retain recovery information, but do not require that the buyer let you maintain ownership of the email linked to the account POST sale. Therefore, your 1K account sales and the "happenings" you mentioned are irrelevant and unrelatable to this suggestion.

I'm sorry, man. I don't mean this with any ill intent. I don't think you understood my suggestion and the context surrounding it because this is completely irrelevant.

 

I do support the time frame being extended with account selling. If the seller truly wishes to not scam and is the OO as he suggests, then there should be no problem if ever needed to recover the account. If sellers are worried about not being able to recover the account, then they are not the OO. It does not matter how many hours a different user spends on the account, if you are the OO you will be able to get the account back.

For the time frame, I believe it should be minimum of 6 months.

 

Haha all good man, I'm retarded most of the time.

 

I support and agree with this 100%.
My company is built on this principle. We're selling an account, we're guaranteeing it is safe to buy, so of course, assuming we retain the email, we provide a lifetime warranty.
Should buyers wish to change the email, we allow this too, but it voids that lifetime warranty, because then we can never be certain of what's happening with the account.

I think it's totally reasonable that if a seller is retaining the registered email, they should be expected to assist with password changes, authenticator issues, and they should be responsible for recovery throughout the entire duration that they retain that email.

 

Agreed, 100%. In all fairness, I can't seem to find a downside. It generates more protection for buyers, provides a level playing field for sellers like you who are already going above and beyond to do what is both right and fair, and will also help produce more confident buyers. Seems like a win win for everyone.

 

No support,

To be honest I even have a hard time recovering some of the accounts I havent sold that i lose access to... and still have some I cant even recover..

1 month / 3 month is fair, and I've never had someone try to ask me to recover their account outside of them getting banned for botting / rwt.

Personally people just need to use repped users and not obv scamquits where people sell 4 2k+ total mains in the same period of time after not being very active.

Generally the market is fucked anyway and even if rules are implemented most buyers dont know the rules nor do they take the time to learn them. Most of the time they see a nice account for like $1-200 and go "omfg its a good price" sees a real provider selling the same account for $499 and goes "wow what a rip off" people dont understand sythe isnt a shopping center that its a black market full of scammers and donkeys. Until we rebrand sythe and focus on the clients / marketplace its going to stay like this and almost no update you do will actually bring security to the users which is seen in the dispute section daily... We got shit providers offering shit services and vading to rejoin and offer those same shit services and accoutns again. The only line of defence we have are people like @Wortel who help slow down the vaders by reporting them / perm banning service providers and their discords ect from using the site.

However vaders will get by, shit providers will be here, and scammers well scammers be scammers and will rape anyone including their mom for $5 and no rule given is going to change that.

Yellow Hat

P.S I still love you @IGotOwned i just know pretty much none of this is going to fix it until we implement new market place features.

 

I think you're missing the point.

If you have the account registered to your email still, you should never have to recover.
If you as the seller, are the original owner, and retain the registered email, then you should ALWAYS be in full control of the account and never be able to lose it or even be in a situation where a recovery is possible. The account would always be safe.
I'm sure if some of our accounts were somehow accessed, I likely wouldn't be able to recover specific ones either. But I avoid that scenario from even happening, because I own the recovery emails, and each of the emails are secured, and therefore the accounts are secured. They'll never have an issue, and my buyer is 100% safe at all times.

 

ILY too man, hope things are well your way @Yellow_Hat_OSRS_Services! But yeah, check out @Sound’s reply because I think you missed what my suggestion is geared towards, similar to how Pikachu did.

I’m not suggesting to increase the required recovery warranty on the majority of account sales. This suggestion only pertains to account sales in which the SELLER maintains OWNERSHIP and SOLE ACCESS to the LINKED EMAIL on the account AFTER it has been sold and is in the possession of the buyer. 90%+ of account sales don’t fit this category because the seller allows the buyer to link their own email once the account is purchased. In those instances, I agree with you. However, as Sound stated, if the seller maintains the email address and the account truly is secure as advertised at time of sale, there should be ZERO risk of any foul play or malicious intent preventing a longer (truthfully, lifetime) warranty.

 

Thats silly if you're selling the mass volume some of us are, there are countless instances where email providers deactivate the emails if they are inactive as well if you have to continuously log into them and for some reason you get chain banned by the email provider you have a ton of email issues to fix. I highly disagree with the suggestion as its an utter inconvenience to have to worry about this type of stuff and as a seller whos had 0 issues for 3 years now I think the current rules work well with those of us who already do right. We shouldn't have to adopt what most use as a marketing strategy to say "lifetime insurance" when in reality thats a lie because #1 you wont be doing this in 10+ years and if you are and the games still active thats a completely different topic...

Having to hold access to email accounts on its own is a headache let alone having to deal with PW changes every time a client wants one when you're selling bulk, tons of different accounts, and dealing in high volumes is mental... To suggest we would have to do this and put other accounts at risk by recovering / changing passwords of client accounts to our own HWID,VPS, IP's and other forms of attachment is ridiculous. You both know @Sound @IGotOwned I have 0 issues with either of you but the suggestion is kind of not reasonable for people who are doing huge volumes of accounts especially for the type of market this is.

Maybe rework the suggestion and ill give it a read but as of now def 100000% not in line with most of us high tier providers.

<3

Yellow Hat

 

P.S also if a client has the account for 1 year, changes the pw countless times, records his ips and buys membership with various methods they will then become owner as well and can easily recover the account... So even owning the email rights does nothing for long term security and the system you're suggesting is flawed. Then a client could say "I never had access to the email how could I of done this" then you are sitting there with a closed mouth going "how did it happen" and having to refund a client + they keep the account...

The only thing having an email does and giving PW change links is make life complicated when dealing with volume and long term account guarantees. This is a black market not an insurance company, and if someone cant keep access to their own account then they aren't responsible enough to purchase or own one. And this doesnt even help the scamming issues all this does it make life more complicated for those who are already running a legitimate high end business.... Actually it makes it easier for scammers because now they dont even have to recover their accounts all they have to do is request a lost password request.... and the client not having the email cant even see a recovery request coming in giving them time to transfer the gold off their accounts / valuables. So no its not reasonable to ask us to adopt your headache of a method or provide scammers with a more viable way of scamming.

Yellow Hat

 

my dude you are YET AGAIN misunderstanding what @IGotOwned is suggesting.
He's saying that IF you as a seller decide to retain the registered email, then you should be responsible for the account.
If you do not want to be responsible, you shouldn't have the right to retain the email.
Nobody is saying you have to retain the email, or even that you should. Simply that if you are putting in your TOS that you will retain the registered email (much like myself, and a few other of the big account sellers on this forum do), that as long as you retain that email, you are responsible for the account.
Don't want the responsibility? Give the buyer the email. Simple.

 

Not giving them the email either because as an actual high volume seller we dont always do that method of singular emails or methods. Are you suggesting if we dont give the email we have to hold responsibility of the email? Or are you seeing as a choice we can follow your "method" because if its "if we dont give access to email we have to maintain access to it? or are you saying its our choice if we want to stay in the current TOS, because holding responsibility for a year is actually silly as well.

 

I feel like you're just ranting without even reading what people are saying.
Most of what you said has nothing to do with the suggestion.

 

Maybe I worded that poorly saying "give them the email"; what I mean is, allow them to change the registered email.
Many of the bigger account sellers that handle valuable accounts don't provide email access at all.
That is what we're discussing.

Nobody is saying you HAVE to adopt this, what he's saying is that IF you choose to retain the only email address linked to the account, that you are then responsible for it. That's only logical.