Trusted Paypal/Paypal verification system.

Bear with me on this one.

Here is what I have been thinking. As a pretty active member of the Blackmarket section, I have seen over time how unsafe it can be at times for members to typically accept paypal. Through safe trading habits, it lessens the risk of chargebacks, and I have thankfully only been chargebacked on in 2 trades out of the 400+ I have done.

To combat the failability of paypal as a secure method of payment (we all know you can chargeback, even if it is gifted), I suggest developing a method of verifying that a members paypal can be trusted, through a presentation of successful trades with paypal without any chargebacks/reversals.

I know this would be somewhat time consuming in the beginning, but after we have initiated and gotten through the initial stages, I think maintenance would be relatively easy. Here is my idea for implementation.

Place a sub-forum called "Paypal verification" (or something similiarly, the wording is irrelevant), possibly here.



Members who wish to "verify" their paypal would create a new thread, just like in the vouch forum.

The actual verification process would be moderately lengthy. The requirements (this is just a proposal, it could be changed as is seen fit by staff), would be sort of like a mini OMM application, except with paypal trades as proofs rather than MMing trades. The specific requirements could be:

-Member must demonstrate 5+ successful trades using paypal without chargebacks. (so a screeny of paypal transaction history without any chargebacks. The whole transaction history would be screenied to prove that there are in fact no chargebacks. obviously sensitive information such as buyers/senders name could be edited. Additionally a PM from the member they traded with, a vouch with the persons paypal addy, or a MSN screenshot of the other persons paypal would be required to proove that the transaction listed are actual trades on Sythe.)

1. In order to avoid wasting time, the minimum amount traded should be $50+ (this would reduce scammers buying 5 pins/lame names etc just to get the "verified" status, then scamming.)

2. Member must have 100+ posts IOT apply (Yes I know some would disgaree with this to avoid spamming, but if they have been able to conduct 5+ trades, I think we can assume that they have 100+ posts)

2. To finalize the process, member must send a verification payment ($.01) to a market mod or whoever would be in charge of the process, proving that they in fact own the account that they are taking the proofs from (to prevent people from googling paypal images or some other bullshit).

3. After all the proofs have been verified, the mod or whoever in charge would post on the thread, simply saying "_____ (members name) and their paypal address _____ are verified at $___ in trades. For example, "Plznate and his paypal address ngxxxxxxxxxxxx are verified at $200 in trades". (what this would do is allow people to judge, based on their paypal history, the reliablity of a persons paypal account. If someone were verified at $150 history, then obviously there would be no worries of accepting a small payment from them. It simply provides the seller with concrete proof that the buyer has a good paypal trade history).

4. Another stipulation is that members can only update the thread for every $50 in history. For example, I go and get my paypal verified using the verification process for $50. Then I do 2 more trades for $15 more. To avoid wasting mods time, I would not be able to do the process again until I have another $50 in trades, so the mod could verify me up to $100, rather than doing it every trade or two.


I know this seems long and complicated, but honestly most of the work would be done by the member applying. The mod verifying would spend perhaps a minute verifying the screenshots of the successful trades and the transaction history. The mod then has a brief 30 second convo with the member, recieves the $.01 verification payment, then posts the member is verified up to $xxx.

The nice thing about the system is that it would be open for others to post in, similiar to vouches. So in the event that a member gets verified, then charges back, if there is not enough proof to ban them, then the member can at least post in their paypal thread, showing proof of the chargeback, which would disable their "verified" status.

Additionally, this would provide more security for sellers, because they can at least have some sort of concrete proof that the buyer has a good paypal history. A buyer is hesitant on accepting paypal from a relatively new member, member then links them to his paypal verification thread, and buyer sees he is verified for a $100 history, and completes the trade. I know I personally would be more willing to accept paypal from less than trusted members who had completed a verification process such as this.

To conclude, yes I know the system could be abused, but to no more an extent than vouches. Honestly it is 10x easier to get fake vouches than it would be to complete this verification process falsely, plus I think this is a more accurate measure of business ethics than vouches, as a vouch can be gained for something as miniscule as free skilling.

Suggestion/constructive criticisms are welcomed.

 

Sounds good. Not sure if there are any flaws. Is there going to be a 'PP Verfied' rank like the other blackmarkets?

 

I didnt think something like this would merit a rank. It would simply be an extra security measure in addition to vouches, so when deciding whether or not to trade with a person, they can view their vouch thread, and they can view their verified/trusted paypal thread to see the wuality of their vouches and the amount of successful paypal trades done in the past. Again, not fool proof, but a nice extra confidence measure when trading.

 

I'm really not up to reading at this time but I skimmed it

The thing is, as some of us aren't 18 yet, we flick between paypals as each one gets limited. If one paypal gets Sythe verified, and then it gets limited and I move on, will I have to make a new verification thread?

 

Then you would sadly not be able to use the system unless you do so for each new paypal. The concept behind this is showing consistent safe trades to prove trustworthiness; if you cant keep the same paypal then you simply wouldnt be able to utilize the system.

 

That's bullshit. How many of us are actually over 18?

 

I guess it could be changed to allow persons to change their paypal address, as long as they list previous paypals used along with their respective proofs.

 

It sounds lengthy but it can work. I do have to argue about the 100+ post count though.

 

Sounds goot but they ''vouch'' eachother that they're trusted with paypal altough they can chargeback 2 days later and the other guy prob forget's that he vouched him so he won't edit?

 

Thats why it would take more than 1 trade and a minimum of $50 in trades to combat this. Again, never said the system is perfect or flawless, but more accurate than vouches are, which can be easily faked.

 

claim and cancel?

 

Reported for spam. If you have nothing intelligent or relevant to say, then don't.

 

Sounds like a really nice idea
The 50$ minimum per trade, could it be like this:
1. I buy something for 20$.
2. Then in another trade with another person i buy something for 20$
3. Then with a third person i buy something for 10$.

Will that just be counted as 1 trade or does the 50$ have to be in one trade?

 

That would count as 3 trades, and fulfill your minimum of $50, but you would still need 2 more trades to complete the process.

 

It's actually pretty well thought out, and i agree with you.
Support.

 

I like the idea in principle, but there are some flaws. Payments remain disputable for up to 2 months, so it would be a while before you get some actual verified paypal accounts. Even if the account is verified, this won't stop the person from charging back in the future. Many scammers have a history of legit trades before they get caught (fatih). The best way to avoid chargebackers is to just be smart about who you trade with

 

I support, although couldn't donators just sign into paypal on a proxy and donate, then claim the payment back stating payment was not them (deferent IP) and get moneyback?

 

So then I could do 4 pin trades for $3.00 each and then buy some gold on RS for $40 and I would be considered to have a verified PayPal for 4 pin trades and 1 transaction for $40?

In my opinion the process sounds too easy and far to complicated to deal with. The Mods already have enough to deal with and most would not be willing to take the time necessary to complete this process.

Also, regarding vouches, the Staff mainly observe those vouches from either Staff, OMM, or highly-regarded/trusted members on the website. If the users of Sythe were better educated on when to or not to trade, they would take into account the vouches received by the users and more-so able to observe whether they can trust that user or not.

I'm not so sure whether I support this or not, but I don't think it will be approved.

 

Thanks.

This is correct. Again, the system is not perfect, but the verification process would most likely deter scammers due to the relative difficulty in verifying themselves. Still a better method of showing good transaction history than vouches.

If the funds were charged back from an account, then the member loses verified status, period.

Thanks for your input. To answer, yes the trades you listed would meet the criteria. The process to verify would not be easy enough that scammers with dynamic IP's do it on each new sythe account (post count requirement, plus $50 trade requirement).

The process for a mod to verify it would actually be quite simple. Put a mod or two in charge of the section. After a member fills out his app, he PMs a mod or posts "complete" on his thread. Mod spends 30 seconds viewing the screenshotted proofs, then PMs the user saying send $.01 to my paypal ______ for final verification. Mod checks their paypal at their leisure, and after seeing the payment sent (would require users to state their sythe name in a note with the payment), spends 15 seconds posting "verified up to $__ on this paypal addy" on the thread. Total input time per user, roughly 1 minute.

Again, I am not saying this should replace vouches, or be the end all method to avoid scams. I am just saying it would be an additional security measure that members can take into account before they decide to do a trade, and use that information as they will.

 

In that, would one not be abusing the system? There should be a requirement of up to $50.00 with all 5 trades exceeding $10.00 or more, to ensure a more trusted PayPal user. Also, if you said one could not just buy pins all the time to become verified, what holds them back from doing 17 trades at $3.00 each to reach a total of $51.00 and becoming verified? Must it only be a total amount of $50.00 from 5 trades?

It may not take that long, but with this website holding a little over 200,000 members (most not active mind-you), it would be a rigorous process to verify every user's request.

You may argue this by saying, "I said put a mod or two in charge of the section". However, you are suggesting it to be a part of the Market, where 6 Mods currently exist (as Spyike has resigned for the moment being). There would be no need for additional Mods but usage of the current status to complete this process. With support from those 6 Mods, you may better be able to progress towards this suggestion being approved. I would suggest that you contact those 6 Moderators asking them to view this thread and provide their opinion, as only theirs, Globals, and Admins are really useful at the moment.

I understand that you're not saying that it shouldn't replace vouches and it just another security measure. I think it would be useful in many ways as I trust very little users with PayPal. If this were implemented, we all would see both the good and bad, pros and cons, perfection and flaws.

Until you can think of a way for this system of verification to have little to no flaws, the better chance you will have of having it approved, in my opinion.