Philosopher dumb question

[LeagueGames]

I had a debate in philosophy class.. and i wanted to know

what if "Jake" murdered someone..and pour ice on their body.. could "Jake' make the dead person "pronounce dead" a day later? assuming all the ice will melt etc etc? I read it once somewhere .. or saw it in a movie i don't remember

and say the person flee to another country

lol this sounds so dumb but i really want to know +)

 

[Aus Soldier]

Yes because rigamortis would set at a different rate.

 

I think I know what you were talking about, in some crime series (forgot which one) they put a guy on ice to be thawed a while later and put in a car.

Though I do not understand your question, a person is "officially" dead as soon as a medical examiner pronounces it. Even if a person has been dead for a year but never found, it doesn't officially count until he is pronounced.

 

[Lame]

I think I know what you were talking about, in some crime series (forgot which one) they put a guy on ice to be thawed a while later and put in a car.

Though I do not understand your question, a person is "officially" dead as soon as a medical examiner pronounces it. Even if a person has been dead for a year but never found, it doesn't officially count until he is pronounced.

They can find out a rough estimate as to when the person actually died. Lets say someone died at 4am last night and is found 1 day later they can estimate his TOD from 1am-5am.

 

[justinkiller]

Im not a mortician by any means, but I would think in the cold rigamortis would kick in faster?

I am sure they can tell if a body was submerged in ice however.

 

Im not a mortician by any means, but I would think in the cold rigamortis would kick in faster?

I am sure they can tell if a body was submerged in ice however.

I believe that the cells would break.

 

[rue]

I think I know what you were talking about, in some crime series (forgot which one) they put a guy on ice to be thawed a while later and put in a car.

Though I do not understand your question, a person is "officially" dead as soon as a medical examiner pronounces it. Even if a person has been dead for a year but never found, it doesn't officially count until he is pronounced.

If you're looking for a philosophical answer than this is dead accurate. And rigor mortis can be affected by several variables, but if the body is submersed in ice or any type of cold client rigor mortis can last for days on end plain and put. The crystallization of cells wouldn't happen over night however, I believe that takes an extensive period in deep freeze if I do recall. It would be more difficult for the medical examiner there's no doubt.

 

[LeagueGames]

My english sucks balls, but if i recall

the question was

Jack murdered Billy, Jack finger prints were on the murders weapon, Jack knew where the murder weapon, but there was conclusive proof that Jack was out of the country when Billy died. Jack murdered Billy.

I had this thought where if Jack someone slowed down Billy death, he would still be indeed the murderer because of the fact that his finger prints were on the murder's weapon and he knew the location of the weapon.

Now i thought that if you had a mountain of ice..and say that it would eventually melt. The dead person could actually die slower

 

[malakadang]

This isn't really philosophy, it's more law. Whatever Jack does, it does not change the fact that he is the murderer, since it was his actions that caused the death of another person (with malice and aforethought). Whether the police can gather enough evidence to incriminate him is another matter, since he would presumably have an alibi to corroborate a story that he was not there at the now distorted time of death.

 

[mage3158]

Body decomposition rates are tested thoroughly in different environments.

 

[Emperor Nero]

Body decomposition rates are tested thoroughly in different environments.

This isn't philosophical in any sense of the word, this is a question of law - with that being said what Mage here has stated is completely true. Modern coroner can easily tell you that a corpse at this temperature, in this environment decays this fast. If they don't then there are specialist out there that they can get in touch with that can - so it's not a problem really. You can't make someone die slower. You could starve them to death, but if they were shot you're either going to have them bleed out, die instantly, or survive. So if you're trying to deduce that Jack shot Billy and put him into some kind of magical ice bath that made him slowly die then that is impossible. The coroner could see he died of frostbite, hypothermia, or exposure.

If Jack was conclusively out of the country when Billy died of a gun shot wound then there is no possible way to delay a death by gunshot wound. You would have to die of other means. You could die of gunshot wound related complications, like if Jack shot Billy and then laid out for a couple of days and bled out because of some odd happening. If the gun shot was taken at a time when Jack was not in the country he cannot be held responsible unless he hired someone to murder him and then you get solicitation of murder and first degree murder charges.

 

[LeagueGames]

Jack murdered Billy, Jack finger prints were on the murders weapon, Jack knew where the murder weapon, but there was conclusive proof that Jack was out of the country when Billy died. Jack murdered Billy.


This is a philosophy question, i was just adding my thoughts in the next part.
what i am asking is.. is there any possible way that jack could of murdered billy if he was out of the country when billy died? He had his fingerprints and he knew where the murder weapon was

 

[I_DONT_BOT]

People being timed correctly as dead all depends on the rate of rigamortis, which is where the body is decaying. Obviously certain aspects such as wrapping the body or keeping it in ice will slow the process, but it can also be sped up by being left outside, or in a hot climate. If a body has been preserved, it can still be worked out when it was officially dead if it's a short term preservation, such as ice, but if it's been done properly, even the top medical examiners will struggle working out an accurate time of death, maybe with an outcome of inaccuracy.

 

[Emperor Nero]

Jack murdered Billy, Jack finger prints were on the murders weapon, Jack knew where the murder weapon, but there was conclusive proof that Jack was out of the country when Billy died. Jack murdered Billy.


This is a philosophy question, i was just adding my thoughts in the next part.
what i am asking is.. is there any possible way that jack could of murdered billy if he was out of the country when billy died? He had his fingerprints and he knew where the murder weapon was

What kind of weapon was it? There was an American diplomat that was killed int he 70's by getting shot with a pellet from an umbrella gun that had ricin (the poison) in it

 

[I_DONT_BOT]

They will look into the aspect of him being framed, and also the aspect of him escaping the country and preserving the body. They can usually tell if it's been preserved, just not how long for. With his prints on the weapon, they will try and bring him in if the foreign countries let them gain jurisdiction.

 

[Jedi Mind Tricked]

Jack has actus rea and mens rea by having committed the guilty act with intention therefore he is a murderer.

It doesn't matter whether he flees or not because if he is found he has still done the act however the ice may delay or confuse the authorities but they can easily tell whats gone on and therefore make a sensible judgement and assumption of the time of death.