Mishandled Cases in the Names Market

Ignoring the fact that you're lying out of your ass right now, there is no solution to the name sales market. It breeds scammers who can snipe any name they want, hold onto it for 6-12 months, fake a couple of transfers & it being sold to them then sell it on for profit and not be caught unless they admit to owning it before they pretend it was sold to them.

The whole market needs deleting because there is no solution to make it a safe market (Which has been obvious for years). I honestly don't know why you were given a DNT when you're still out there sniping peoples names among other things.

 

+1 support for removing Sythe's name section. The Sythe names market as it is operating now is single handedly breaking the overall names market because there are users like you patrolling around say "there's nothing we can do". Thanks for modelling the submissive and "don't care" attitude because it's a really good representation of how things have been going on here lately.

 

add:
"Sellers are responsible for names they sell (similar to account sales)"

I mean if you can transfer it to a level 3, you can transfer it to someone elses account. and would eliminate double standards

 

Theres been loads of suggestions/threads about name sales and there never really is a solution. Its a risky market but people who participate in it are aware of those risks. Taking away the sniping rule is ridic lol. Getting rid of name sales is unfair.

 

If youre doing things this way you're facing the problem of Sellers refusing to take responsibility causing a decrease in actual sellers and market activity, while increasing the number of banned/DNT users since the sellers take the shots for the ones doing wrong.

Ive continuosly told my customers that transferring names is an optional account feature and if you want to garantee security of your name to just keep it on the account that comes with the name attached and not transfer at all. In this case the seller takes responsibility for the account in any case where the account gets locked/stolen (same as how account sales work now)

 

I think the Name Sales section will always be heavily flawed but there are ways to improve it as it stands now. No section on Sythe is perfect and if we start shutting downs sections based on the risk one or both parties takes on, we might as well shut down the entire Market. There will always be a greater risk than normal dealing with virtual goods, but that's why you try to deal with as reputable a user as possible to decrease your chances to little to none of any issues arising during or after the transaction. If any changes are made to the section, it should just be that all names are required to be sold/bought on fresh accounts (no registered e-mail address, etc). The buyer alone will know when/if the name moves and can't blame anyone but themselves if any issues arise; having the patience to wait and move it at a strategic time and in a strategic way can be their own strength or weakness.

There's a difference between transferring a name to a fresh level 3 account before you begin to advertise it and transferring it to an established account after you begin to advertise it.

 

It's fine if there's less sellers, those who will take the risk will reap the reward of charging a premium as well.

It's not preferred of course, but as is the current market is essentially the reverse, where the buyers have decreased due to the risk. There won't be a DNT/banned risk, because if the seller fails the transfer then just refund.


The majority of big name scams in the past have been people recovering their name, selling the account with the name and letting the buyer transfer opens up the "account was hijacked" excuse. - so it should be the seller doing the transfer if a buyer truly wants safety behind the name.

I know you are just trying to protect your own interests as a name seller, but as a buyer and avid scam report reader, I doubt that having sellers take responsibility for the trade, whether it is account sale of the level 3's (as account sale name) and actual name sales (transferring the name) will change the flow of the market.

I do think Sythe needs to take a stand on the market as is, as the loopholes currently make it probably the easiest to get away with scamming.

@Bonesack

Then it should be in the Account Sales section rather then Name Sales to begin with if only the account is being sold - this distinction might be the most feasible of all.

 

What I am suggesting is the most safe method of delivering a name from my experience. It's how most reputable name traders do their business; delivering names on fresh level 3 accounts for buyers to transfer at a later time at their own risk and discretion. It makes more sense to allow the buyer the freedom to choose when and how they want to move the name as opposed to moving it at the time of sale when it is most risky as that is when every sniper/scammer will know the name is being moved according to this new hypothetical policy. And the determination of whether an "account sale" should in fact be an account sale or name sale should be dependant on whether the value of the "account" comes from the stats or the name.

 

The names market is a giant shitfest. Here is one VERY flawed solution that name snipers would absolutely hate:

Introduce a new sticky: "Sniped Names - A MUST READ BEFORE BUYING OR SELLING ANY NAMES". These names aren't allowed to be sold on Sythe any longer.
Whenever a name gets sniped and there is proof that one of the parties had that name (so names can't be framed) the name should be labelled sniped, when confirmed by both parties. This would require a lot of (fast) moderation (hah nobody moderates the names market at all - this also has to change...).

Pros: You can't really prove that a certain individual sniped a name, but this measure would disallow selling formerly sniped names, thus ultimately screwing over name snipers - at least on Sythe. An argument that's often used by name snipers is "I bought it of person X and I didn't know it was sniped sadface". Names change a lot, but if it was mandatory to check the "Sniped Names" sticky before buying a name, one could no longer say that he bought it of seller X and didn't know it was sniped. Unknowingly buying sniped names would be a thing of the past - at least for the established name sellers.

Cons: This also means that the name is permanently gone from the market, which reduces the supply. It is possible for a sniped name to expire of an account and be acquired legitimately - however with this measure the name would still be labelled as sniped. People could have acquired the name legitmately before even knowing about Sythe - tough luck I'd say.

The most important part about this is the moderation. The list should be updated almost instantly once the name was reported as sniped. Otherwise people will simply claim that they bought the name "legitimately" 5 hours after it was originally sniped, because it wasn't added to the list in time. This could still be a problem, but if the window was less than 20 minutes, it would be highly unrealistic that somebody legitimately acquired the name.

Either this or simply allow name sniping. There is no in-between even though Sythe's current rules imply so. In reality the current rules allow name sniping, unless you're stupid enough to openly admit to it or get sold out by your name snipe buddy you'll get away with it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

When you look at other markets of similar nature (most particularly gamertags or any OG account names for that matter) where you run into similar risk/trust transactions, you'll notice that on these markets there aren't any issues being reported in regard to sniping. If you actually take the time to participate or observe activity in those other markets they rarely ever run into the shit storm of drama and reports that get brought up here.

It makes complete sense that the seller of any goods should be held accountable for safe-keeping and only offering goods to people they deem trustworthy, and I think this concept solves some of the problem. I don't however feel that the seller should be responsible for a refund if the transfer is intercepted for the main reason that performing a name transfer in itself is optional benefit to buying the rare name account. Name sales should be treated in the exact same fashion and procedure as an account sale. If you want to guarantee that you name doesn't get sniped, just don't transfer it and play on the account it comes with. Only buy accounts from people that you deem trustworthy with the knowledge and caution of knowing that at any point your account may be recovered. I'm not trying to safeguard myself in any way, shape or form because this isn't about that. However I personally feel that the rule against name sniping only invites the staff to deal with an abundance of reports to sift through that never will have feasible amounts of proof to "incriminate" someone as a rule-breaker.

TL;DR - Same principle as when buying accounts - you should only buy from those who YOU deem trustworthy, and from someone who is responsible enough to keep their stock risk free.

 

You have some good ideas here but what you aren't considering is that you're creating a lot more work for staff and relying heavily on community hearsay and input. I think its a safe and agreeable assumption that the names market isn't full of the most credible individuals and also that staff time could be put to a much more productive use.

 

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I agree with most of what Bonesack is said. When dealing with names, it's best to just sell the entire account and let the buyer deal with the name transfer. It's way to easy for buyers to accuse name sellers of sniping the sold name when things go wrong, which is why I never want to get involved in the actual transfering of names. Buyers should educate themselves on how to properly transfer names, the do's and dont's, they should know there's always a risk involved, same applies when buying a regular account by the way.. There's always a risk of it getting recovered.

What I think should happen;

• Only allow full account sales with the rare name on it.
  
• The buyer should be fully responsible for the name transfer. He gets to pick the time & method to transfer the name.
  
• If the account gets recovered at any point in the future, then the regular procedure of account recovery reporting should be applied.

When it comes to names being sniped;

• Just accusing someone of sniping a name, and assuming he "probably did it" isnt enough to warrant a ban/DNT. This should only be done when there is SOLID proof.
  
• I'd say Folt's explanation of Ethical and Unethical sniping was pretty good.
  
• If a name has been sniped, on the first transfer attempt after buying it on Sythe, and after report has been made about it, the name should be banned from being sold on Sythe.

I probably didnt reallly add anything useful to this discussion but I care about the name sales section so I just wanted to give my personal view/idea on it.

 

I think you've recapped all of the "good" really well here. It would be nice now to hear some input from the staff on how we can clearly outline new rules or make a new sticky thread for that section

 

Your poll hardly encapsulates every possible option and presents this as a problem that only has these solutions.

Since the introduction of name-changing the ability to snipe names has been around making the market itself extremely risky. It is the market. If someone scams (or snipes a name in this instance), there needs to be sufficient proof against them without a margin of error that could be a mistake. It would be ridiculous for moderators to intervene in a free-flowing market. We promote a place where you can trade, it is the user that needs to do so responsibly. If there is a market for name trading, then it should be here and the same goes for other markets (providing they meet the stipulation of being legal/ethical).

Attempting to regulate individuals and how they trade names is ridiculous. Use common sense; if it is safer for you to buy the full account with the name, do it. Do not expect moderators to forbid you from transferring the name to a new account, but recognize the risk in doing so.

If stickies need to be updated to make users more aware of the potentially dangerous nature of name sales, then they should be; however, I do not support any intervention by the likes of Sythe and its' staff on actual management of trades. There's a difference between requiring proofs to help prevent scams and requiring users to go through certain steps or sell their items in a certain manner.

So if not clear, let me reiterate.
- Users should trade names how they want to
- They should agree on the nature of the transfer among themselves
- Individuals who steal names will be banned providing there is sufficient proof.
- The section should not be deleted if there is a market for it
- Stickies may need to be updated to ensure users understand the risk of name trading

1. I think you're underestimating the common sense of any moderator.
2. If the proof is too faint or indirect, it will be denied due to insufficient evidence. We cannot remove someone from this site based on a whim or proof that does not fully meet the requirements as such.
3. Can you provide an example of moderators ducking their heads from such cases?

 

Thanks for the articulate and well thought out reply. To bring up topics discussed in the more recent conversation, I think the biggest question is why have a rule in place that is practically impossible to prove? (Name sniping rule). Dont you think this just creates a clutter of reports that will remain unresolved while wasting staff time?

EDIT: I did not post this topic with any intent to offend any of the staff, please don't take it the wrong way.

 

Obviously he got the DNT cuz none of it can be proven. Lol

Anywase I kid I kid. But seriously the whole situation is stupid. Don't remove the market cuz that's just stupid. It's a free market right? People just need to accept the fact it's a rough market to deal with and get over it lol. Or just get joshuaag1234 to transfer their name for them lol he's good at what he does.

 

I couldnt think of any worse solution, but that's just me.

 

Can you think of a better situation? Cuz I can't lol. I've bought a couple names but I just learned right off the hop to be smart enough to treat name sales like gambling. Don't gamble what you can't afford to loose lol. Accept the market for what it is because honestly there is kinda fuck all else you can do.

 

I don't see a clutter of reports happening due to the lack of name-sniping reports occurring in the first place. I personally don't see a reason to remove the rule since ideally it discourages people from attempting to partake in behavior they will be banned for (not counting the arguably unethical portion), but I do not speak for the entirety of staff (or Sythe as a whole).

As for the reports that are made, I don't see them sitting unresolved for some exorbitant amount of time. Either more information will be compiled showing without a doubt an individual sniped a name or it will be denied due to lack of evidence. I understand it is hard to prove, but that doesn't mean it should just be ignored.

Never worry about critiquing staff in any way, shape, or form (providing it is appropriate). Critiques are appreciated and if someone cannot accept feedback (either negative or positive), they probably shouldn't be staff in the first place.

You're trying to better Sythe and I know I (and many others!) appreciate that.

 

I doubt a lot of the sniping gets reported considering anyone with any experience there knows a report is pretty much a waste of time when nothing can be proven.