Minimum standard for vouches

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Kanye, Aug 4, 2022.

Minimum standard for vouches
  1. Unread #1 - Aug 4, 2022 at 11:27 PM
  2. Kanye
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Suggestion: have some sort of minimum standard for vouches left for others (quantity/who went first)

    I know the big thing is teaching users/newcomers to look at the weight of the vouch versus quantity (quality over quantity), however it's hard to do that if the vouches itself aren't detailed with at least some information.

    These are examples of vouches found:
    sold gp thx
    bought osrs, went fast and & smooth
    very good service!
    sold gold to this guy, ty
    the best <3

    These don't really tell quantity/who went first which would support a weight of the vouch/quality.
    There's huge differences that are left out in vouches (sold account can mean a tutorial starter vs a max ironman, sold gp can mean 5M vs 5B, services can mean 1-50 fm vs 100 solo CoX with access to max gear).

    Obviously not looking to put more things on mods times that they are doing for free on the site, but having this may start to set/build good practices to at least leave some general details to gather facts of the vouch/trade when users are reviewing the quality of vouches. Hell, I even think this may help support modes time in reviewing possible fake vouch reports being reviewed quicker/easier if some details are put into the vouch versus some of the vouches shown above.
     
    ^ CozyCoaster and Bert like this.
  3. Unread #2 - Aug 5, 2022 at 12:07 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    I mean, I'm semi onboard with this. I do agree, there should be more detail or even a template to vouch. However, I also think this may deter lazy users from leaving vouches (not a huge deal) but a bigger problem, what would you do with the current state of peoples vouches? Would the old vouches be removed if they didn't meet the new critera, would they remain, if they remain how could you justify the fair play in that. Join date?

    As I said, I'm semi onboard with this one, interested to see what others have to say as well.
     
  5. Unread #3 - Aug 5, 2022 at 6:00 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Support, as long as this suggestion is limited to a minimum (so no long list of requirements to vouches, just some basic exclusions/inclusions, like who went first/size of trade).

    To add a second argument: in case of fake vouching, the fake-vouchers will have to be more specific in what they have to prove in retrospect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  7. Unread #4 - Aug 5, 2022 at 7:52 AM
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  9. Unread #5 - Aug 5, 2022 at 8:04 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    No support from me.

    As with many other suggestions in the past, I agree with the intention and appreciate the logic behind the suggestion. I do agree and wish that vouches had more detail, but it just doesn't make sense.

    With that said, some are purposefully vague with vouches as an added layer of protection against RWT bans. Others are purposefully short because they are busy, it's their personality, or they simply amass so many vouches that it doesn't make sense for them to write a novel on each.

    I do not agree with forcing users to vouch in a specific way. If a user does not like the way a vouch was left, they're free to work that out with the party who left it. If someone is reviewing vouches to determine the trustworthiness of a buyer/seller, again, they're free to do their homework and contact whomever to further explore.

    I don't believe it's Sythe's responsibility to manage that process. We aren't a dictatorship. More is less, less is more.
    I actively trade on a number of other websites and none of those have vouch requirements either.

    Let's be honest, hundreds and hundreds of transactions occur daily that are facilitated through Sythe. There would likely be an overwhelming amount of vouches left that don't meet standards that would monopolize staff's time to identify, infract, and revisit to ensure it was corrected.


    Final thought. The only change I'd support is requiring the vouch to entail at least a basic description of the trade details. IE - "Bought gp thanks" "Sold RS account" "Did services for me ty"
    As it stands now, there's no requirement at all, that I could find. You quoted this vouch, "the best <3" - that one doesn't fly IMO.
     
    ^ MAGZ likes this.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  11. Unread #6 - Aug 5, 2022 at 8:48 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    No support,

    As suggested in the past, you can't go and force individuals to vouch a certain way. Even if you did, the moderators would have to go through every vouch and tag it. It's just not really feasible.. I agree that you should include more information but in all reality I would personally rather leave a few words rather than follow a template. Because I know if there was a template I would just never leave vouches.
     
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  13. Unread #7 - Aug 5, 2022 at 9:50 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    I'm not really making this for a template style approach, more-so just some information to go off in vouches. This was a solid 3-5 minutes of searching to find the vouches above, there's likely a lot more with absolutely no information to go on to gather information from the vouch.

    Not sure I'm following this statement. Can you elaborate?

    It sounds like you do support it? This post isn't really about having them vouch in a certain way (IE a template) but more-so to provide some basic information. Your ending point says just what I'm basically getting at.
     
  15. Unread #8 - Aug 5, 2022 at 10:02 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Not necessary honestly. As long as a vouch isn't fake then I don't see anything wrong with it being short and sweet.
     
  17. Unread #9 - Aug 5, 2022 at 10:06 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    I think vouches are a subjective number. There are members with tons of vouches who I wouldn't trust, and people with not a lot of vouches who I would trust. I think implementing a new rule regarding vouches isn't needed. It also would require Sythe staff to go through each thread and delete all the shit ones.
     
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  19. Unread #10 - Aug 5, 2022 at 10:45 AM
  20. Kanye
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    The first thing most jump to when a scam occurs is to tell this person/newcomer/etc to focus on the quality of the vouch & not quantity. You & I know these things because it's common sense & we've been around a bit, however most new users do not. It seems a lot of people are taking an approach to try to educate people in the market as well as topics/pinned posts/rules/etc that seem to provide a sense of education for trades (IE check discord ID, require a sythe PM, review feedback, etc). My $.02 is that requiring some type of basic information will help to support what is mentioned above & allow users to get some sort of information or sense of weight from a vouch.

    This isn't for an entire full fledge vouch change to have staff go through each post/thread & delete all horrible vouches & infract/etc as some may view. Hell I don't even have a specific answer to a 'what would happen to the old horrible vouches' question at this moment, but others may. I suggested it as more-so as a building-block/standard practice moving forward that I believe would be beneficial going forward.
     
  21. Unread #11 - Aug 5, 2022 at 12:21 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Like it in theory,

    in practice, it will never work. it is too hard to teach buyers who hardly use the site to leave a detailed vouch
     
    ^ Superfluous, Kanye and Fit like this.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  23. Unread #12 - Aug 5, 2022 at 5:35 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    This, and also.. it will "demotivate" a lot of people to leave a vouch
     
  25. Unread #13 - Aug 5, 2022 at 9:53 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    I agree with the others, Its hard enough to get customers to sign up for the site and leave a vouch anyways, ask them to leave a quality vouch? my customers will just flame me instead.
     
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  27. Unread #14 - Aug 6, 2022 at 8:21 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    No support due to the fact that it's way to hard get the customers to do so.

    Also i think customers should do research when looking at vouches if looking at vouches actually is needed.
     
    ^ Kanye likes this.
  29. Unread #15 - Aug 6, 2022 at 9:22 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Support because i am satisfied with the number of vouches i already have and want to make sure no newcomers can compete
     
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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  31. Unread #16 - Aug 7, 2022 at 11:58 AM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Agreed. If there was some sort of auto-generated template for every post in that forum I think this could be easily achieved, but I'm not sure that's possible with our current XenForo configurations. We'd talked to Matthew about something like this for other forum uses in the past (and I believe it was built?) but remains unimplemented.

    For example:
    Code:
    Who went first:
    How much was transacted:
     
  33. Unread #17 - Aug 7, 2022 at 12:11 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Something simple like that would be great as it doesn’t have to be ground breaking or research paper length. Quick and simple.
     
  35. Unread #18 - Aug 8, 2022 at 5:35 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Honestly if it were me, it would prevent me from leaving a vouch most times, call me lazy if you want but just let me leave my short vouch. Not only that, but then you would have staff that would have to babysit vouch threads to make sure every single vouch was posted correctly.
     
  37. Unread #19 - Aug 8, 2022 at 5:58 PM
  38. Kanye
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    Doesn’t really make sense as looking over your vouches you post — at least — the point of this thread with leaving at least some sort of basic understanding of what the deal was (IE sold 700M vs sold GP).

    To your second point the same can be said with every rule on Sythe or any new suggestion regarding mods. They don’t sit there stalking every thread for 4 hour bump timers for example. It’s things that get implemented as a standard and most start to understand and follow it — whether it’s someone reporting the post/etc or a mod eventually catching on or another way. This isn’t a suggestion to have vouches stalked 24/7.
     
  39. Unread #20 - Aug 8, 2022 at 7:56 PM
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    Minimum standard for vouches

    at the end of the day, i would say vouches can be compared to feedback, i.e. a vouch means positive feedback.

    if you are receiving a vouch would like the vouchee to give a more specific vouch to prove your trustworthiness, that responsibility currently lies with to yourself to ask them

    this suggestion really is an ode to teaching newcomers how to spot scammers, how to not get impostored, and in this case how to tell if someone's vouches are of good quality etc etc
     
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