middleman holding my funds

[chaserlemon]

Scammer's profile link: Yirru
Explain the service: middleman for an order for account creation

Amount scammed: ~$70

At the heart of the middleman service agreed upon with yirru was an understanding that funds would be held in escrow and distributed out over the course of a 6-8 week period accordingly. Yirru, Death, and I agreed to this in order to provide a level of safety for everyone involved. Yirru was compensated on the front end at his desired rate of $10, and Death was compensated as progress on the account was made.

Yirru's argument that when I originally sent him the $250 in BTC for him to hold and redistribute as the order progressed there was never a firm agreement as to what would happen if btc rose in price is flawed because the $250 in btc that he was holding never belonged to him. He was merely acting as an unbiased third party for the sake of safety. So if the btc never belonged to yirru & the value of that btc increased in his possession then the value of the increase should go to the owner of the btc.

Because I was liable for covering any shortages based on btc price drops I should also be entitled to any increase in the value of assets held in escrow.

http://imgur.com/a/VVFVaVR

 

[Superfluous]

@chaserlemon
I agree you should be entitled to the rise in BTC as well. If you were paid, say, 0.03 BTC, which happened to be worth $250 at the time, and that BTC is worth $300 now that is all well and good but you're still entitled to your 0.03 BTC.

@Yirru
Please pay @chaserlemon the full amount of BTC he is owed. Also pretty lousy of you to block someone that you're MMing a trade for...

 

[chaserlemon]

0.034291389btc at the current rate is $324.64.
minus the $250 comes out to $74.64. I'll pm my btc address. thanks.

 

Umm I just woke up, ill get to this in a bit. There was no agreement firstly about me paying for the rise in the btc.
I said I will be paying him 250$ whatever happens whether it rises or falls.

 

Also I paid @Death in installments and the price was different everytime, and @Superfluous please don't call me lousy without hearing both sides of the story, what kind of a moderator are you?

 

well, since my name was posted I gotta tell this

0.03097577 was given to me in total.
he sent 0.034291389 to @Yirru
total left 0.003315619 with could be the payment he took with amount to around $12 back when BTC was $7k
@Superfluous

 

If btc had crashed, there is no way he would've covered the difference. Show me once a screenshot of me agreeing to pay him more if the btc rose. If anything that amount should be owed to @Death and not @chaserlemon in the first place right as that btc was supposed to be his? I'm fine paying that to @Death even though there is no reason for me to pay it in the first place as there was no agreement for me to pay extra with the rise in btc, show me once where I have agreed to it please.

 

[chaserlemon]

this is a gross abuse of power. can't believe we're going through this.

my assets increased in value while being held in escrow. those increases are owed to me and only me.

 

[Superfluous]

this is a gross abuse of power. can't believe we're going through this.

my assets increased in value while being held in escrow. those increases are owed to me and only me.

This is accurate. Please pay the man, @Yirru. A MM should not be making or losing money on changes in the value of the things they’re holding.

 

this is a gross abuse of power. can't believe we're going through this.

my assets increased in value while being held in escrow. those increases are owed to me and only me.

First of all. they were not your assets. That payment belonged to Death, so it was his asset. I don't mind paying him for it, even though I'm not entitled to as I said I will be paying 250$ whether it goes up or down.

Why would I trust the fact that you would pay me if it went down? That is not a deal I would make.

 

This is accurate. Please pay the man, @Yirru. A MM should not be making or losing money on changes in the value of the things they’re holding.

What? Have you spoken to other staff about this? The asset belongs to @Death.
I've asked for one thing. Show me where I agreed to pay if btc was at an excess???? I went into the deal knowing that I was to pay 250$ whatever happened, whether it went up or down.

I don't think your decision makes any sense.

 

I have no issues paying the money I owe, I'm not a peasant. But I want a fair decision to be made. This guy has exploited death first, and now he is exploiting me. Please talk with other staff about this first as many people think your decision is ridiculous. @Superfluous

 

Can I request that @TySimpson handle this report, as he is a part of the mm group we're in so he has a clearer picture of what's going on.
If you have the time @TySimpson. sorry to bother you.

 

0.034291389btc at the current rate is $324.64.
minus the $250 comes out to $74.64. I'll pm my btc address. thanks.

Even here he is trying to exploit the value, can't you see this? @Superfluous

 

[Superfluous]

Here's what I think should happen in most MM situations:
-User1 gives money to MM to hold
-Deal between User1 and User2 happens
-MM gives money to User2

If that money is 0.03 BTC, then great. User1 pays 0.03 BTC, and User2 receives 0.03 BTC, regardless of fluctuations in the price of BTC relative to other currencies.

-----

In this case, you have these ToS where Chaser is covering the difference if BTC drops, and it is not clear who profits if BTC rises. So there are three options:

1) Chaser gets the excess value as he was covering the downside
2) Death gets the excess value as the BTC that Yirru was holding was due to be paid to him
3) Chase and Death split the excess value as there was no agreement about who profits if BTC rises.
Note that these options do not involve the MM, Yirru, getting to keep the excess value.

I had previously gone with option #1, though I apologize if I that wasn't clear. I've spoken to @Pirate and @Gen about this, and I still think this is fairest given what I've seen so far. My rationale is that the person willing to cover the downside should benefit if the downside is negative; i.e. if BTC goes up in value.

If there's some agreement that I'm missing here about who benefits from the upside of BTC rising definitely let me know though.

 

[chaserlemon]

Yirru, you were hired to stay an independent third party to facilitate the safe exchange of btc during the deal.

the fact that you're claiming I exploited Death when that isn't the position that the staff took over the previous report combined with the fact that you're claiming that the funds you were holding of mine belonged to death before you distributed them to him proves either you are ignorant of basic social and financial concepts (which I don't believe to be the case) or you blatantly have no respect for them when using this marketplace. You've made your stance of opposition to me & sympathy for death clear. While it might be a little unethical to state during the deal it isn't going to hurt my feelings. What I'm actually offended by is the fact that you're not only taking a side but that you're trying to use the power that I paid to give during this deal against not just me but every new member on sythe.

I understand and have respect for what you've built here, but the fact that you're trying to leverage your relationships with staff to sway a scam vote is the equivalent of doubling down on a dose of corruption.

Are we really trying to set a precedent that anyone with a large service system can bully newer members based on their discord size & relationships with staff members?

This is about so much more than $70 to me. I firmly believe that while some members may have more repsect based on their tenure here we shouldn't be encouraging the weaponization of that clout. We should be providing an environment where everyone can trade in t

 

[chaserlemon]

My level of interest in receiving the increase of btc vastly pales in comparison to my level of concern that yirru can pay ~$70 or whatever the price might be in order to have his way with an unsuspecting member of the marketplace.

Get this guy out of here.

His actions thus far & level of ethics displayed should be more than enough evidence to warrant punishment outside of having to pay back the funds.

 

The value decided was 250$ btc and not 0.34 or whatever it was. That is what I paid out in installments for a period of over 8 weeks. The price was different at each interval.

Once again, all I asked for was me agreeing to pay the excess if the price rose.

 

[Superfluous]

After this has somehow become the most drama-filled thread of the week, I've asked @Yirru to repay both @Death and @chaserlemon half of the difference owed. It's clear that Yirru should not profit here, and given that there was no agreement in place as to who should profit, I'm going with a fair split between the customer and the service provider. If you have other concerns just DM me or something.

@Yirru please structure your MMs such that you and your clients are clear about what is being agreed to. This could all have been avoided if you said "$250 FIRM regardless of the price of BTC" or "0.034 BTC FIRM, regardless of fluctuations vs. the dollar."