Mafioso's workers cleaned 1b+ off an end game 2233 ironman...

Ok, it's unfortunate we haven't been able to continue to discuss things on discord. It's evident things will continue to get aired here, despite us trying to actively find a solution.

The involved parties
Spencer - Victim
Buchu - Worker 1 - Had pin access
Eslam - Worker 2 - Did NOT have pin access

We have not found conclusive evidence to suggest anyone is, without a doubt, innocent or guilty.

We did collect Spencer's logs, and based on those alone, have no reason to suspect he dropped his own items. That that not dismiss a plethora of other possibilities, but we are not pursuing that outcome. He seems honest, so we are proceeding as such.

Based on the current evidence, and past orders, I believe we have sufficiently ruled out worker 1, Buchu. This sentiment is one Spencer shared, and the rest of staff agrees with. We can share the results of the investigation on Discord with a staff member, should they desire to see them. We believe, given the opportunities he has had, there is no likely scenario he would have victimized this account, and solely this account. The logs support his innocence, and again, the victim agrees this was not the responsibility of Buchu.

The only other reasonable suspect would be Eslam or a 3rd party, both of which are possibilities. If we pursue Eslam as a suspect, we would have to ignore the fact that Eslam did not have the pin to the account.
After this issue, Spencer confirmed what his pin was, and it was easily guessable. The pin has been shared with a member of staff.
If we assume Eslam could've guessed the pin, we would also HAVE to assume ANYONE who gained access to the account could have too. This includes malicious 3rd parties, who could have retrieved his login information online, and simply guessed the pin, just like they'd like to assume Eslam did.

The agreement with Eslam was that he would NOT have the pin, and his deposit reflected that.

His deposit for the job was 2b, and his unpaid logs are 200m.

Also, there was roughly 700m in UNFINISHED work for this order, not ~1.7b.

This brings the total coverage from Eslam to 2.2b, + an 800m refund (700 and some change, rounding up for good measure).

I don't think it's fair to make Mafioso's Raids division assume all responsibility for an insecure pin set by the customer, that opened him up to access from more than we'd agreed upon. We also have to take into consideration the pin lockout, meaning Eslam would've had a very limited number of tries between when this occurred and when the customer, Spencer, noticed, to GUESS the pin.

The value of dropped items were 1.4b. We are ready to offer to return the 3b in full to Spencer, usable wheresoever you choose to get these services completed.

Our previous offer was valued at significantly more, as I was openly paying out of pocket, because I felt there were good intentions, and YellowHat (with whom we've had the most conversation with, as Spencer was unavailable) seemed like a genuine guy.

Again, we have AMPLE reasonable doubt to suspect EITHER worker, and going on the evidence, the MOST LIKELY culprit would be the worker WITHOUT PIN - this is a demonstration of how unlikely this scenario is, and our logs support this. If a staff member would like to add me on Discord, I'd be happy to show how we arrived at this conclusion.

Spencer and YellowHat, I understand your side of this. But with less than stable evidence against either worker, you've already resorted to DM'ing Eslam - meaning you've made up your mind about his responsibility, and aren't willing to consider that your weak, easily guessable pin is the only reason he MIGHT have been able to access your bank - and is the same reason another 3rd party would've been able to as well.

Our offers were an attempt to satisfy a previously loyal customer and someone we felt had good intentions going into this, not an admission of guilt. We'd like to say we found information that pinned this on someone beyond a shadow of a doubt, but that's simply not the case.

I'd like to get Sythe staff's input on this very weird scenario, before we proceed. I'm honestly not sure how much of the responsibility we should be assuming with a pin that was so easily guessable that the only argument for this being our responsibility is an argument that also suggests it could have been literally anyone who could guess your account info/retrieve your account info from malicious websites/programs.

 

No where in your TOS does it state not to use a pin as it was and the previous employee knew that pin was such as well whoever accepted the order to which none said make it more complicated..


"Also, there was roughly 700m in UNFINISHED work for this order, not ~1"
There was only thieving completed on that order as well 1 agility level so the balance remaining is 1695m not 700m unfinished, please provide the logs of 99 agility completed, all logs turned into planks, 99 smithing as well the ore purchased and the darts made etc.. There are numerous incomplete portions of the services requested and he still doesn't have the planks, the 99 agility or the 99 smithing so to say he is only owed for the 99 agility isn't true and appears to be you trying to reduce the total amount which is owed.

"The value of dropped items were 1.4b. We are ready to offer to return the 3b in full to Spencer, usable wheresoever you choose to get these services completed."

He is not willing to accept this as recovering 1.4b worth of ironman items is far more than that and you know it or you yourself would use the 3b to get it done.. You are trying to use only the deposit from your worker + the gold spencer spent on the services to buy your way out of this which we will not accept. He has already stated above the list in which he is willing to accept and its extremely fair... He isn't asking for clue scroll items, d chains, 95% of his barrows and almost 90% of the rest of the items or gold that were lost. What he is requesting is a bare minimum that would allow him to play his account and regain his own items.

"
I'd like to get Sythe staff's input on this very weird scenario, before we proceed. I'm honestly not sure how much of the responsibility we should be assuming with a pin that was so easily guessable that the only argument for this being our responsibility is an argument that also suggests it could have been literally anyone who could guess your account info/retrieve your account info from malicious websites/programs."

With this its a shot in the dark trying to negate the issue at hand which is in the past Spencer never had issues with you nor with myself but as soon as it reached this team from the raids server it became an issue. You cannot prove someone guessed the pin and we already ran full diagnostics on spencers computer because we have other valuable data on there that might of been compromised. However nothing came from this and there are no other issues other than a worker from your team scammed him.. Either the worker with the pin was outsourcing the work and someone else had access, or Eslam received the pin from the worker who did have it and then proceeded to clean... However the chances are that there's more than those 2 working on it and one of those employees had access to the pin therefore allowing a complete bank wipe.


Saying you want to give spencer 3b for over $10,000 worth of services and items is absurd and unreasonable 100% of the way. You owe him 1695m alone from the incomplete orders and are only offering around 1300m from the 2b deposit, so no you aren't paying out of pocket and are actually still profiting close to 700m.. We have screenshots of what he paid and the incomplete work / levels.. The only things completed were "buying the ore for 99 smithing" which those ore are now gone, "99 thieving which was only 290m" or somewhere close to that correct, and 1 agility level? That leaves nearly 1700m on that incomplete order... So please stop trying to sound like you're doing a solid by offering him 3b from a cleaned ironman and you still profiting 700m...

I'm sure when others look at the math and see what you're attempting to do it'll result in a much more visible scene.

Yes you offered to do killcount and get some basic stuff back but you're avoiding the fact that your teams are responsible for this situation and you know for a fact its going to cost well over $3-5k to fix this at cost with 0 profits for you so ofc you want to make sure you only spend what is from spencer and from the workers deposit to fix this.

His offer above is completely reasonable and without a doubt 20-25% of his bank back.. He doesn't have 3rd party software on this computer that would compromise the bank pin and password, he didn't give anyone but your team the info and at the end of the day its not just coincidence that as soon as it reached specific members of the team during this ordering phase that it occurred. If he had software on his computer that would allow this to happen why did they wait until the exact moment that specific employees had access to the account? Why not a month prior or 2 weeks prior before ordering, or even a few months down the road when the bank value was higher?

You seem to speak like an honest man with good intentions but actions are louder than words and so far its just words and hocus pocus offerings to a situation that deserves a much better outcome than you are wishing for it.

As I mentioned before a DNT for bad trading practices especially after him stating he only owes a 700m refund out a nearly 2100m order where the user has only had 300-400m worth of orders completed.. They are trying to use his payment for services that are incomplete to pay off the client, that's shady and bad trading practice at its fullest.

The facts are that you guys first wanted to view runelite files and only speak through calls to avoid anything being on paper as well hoping to find a way to prove it was Spencers fault, once you couldn't prove it was his fault you offered to use his "unfinished services payment" + the "deposit" from the worker to pay off w.e you could get from your workers to make this go away behind the scenes... Then you lie and say hes only owed 700m back which is absolute BS, you didn't even offer to finish his 99 agility you just assumed you could use that $ to pay for his stuff back which is also BS you didn't say "hey can we just use your unfinished orders GP to get this back" you assumed you could take that money to fix your issues which isn't ok either.. Spencer doesn't even want the 1.7b back he would prefer you finish his 99 agility get the items requested and use the remaining GP to hopefully fix some other missing items / issues. However you want to act like it's a magical guess of a pin with a worker who shouldn't even be guessing pins, and if you had a worker you didn't trust guessing pins thats on you... He had a "2b deposit" but cleaned an account for "1.4b" I would like proof that he deposited 2b for this order as well / in general... It seems like someone thought they could clean an ironman and get away with profiting still and its not going to go like that. 3b for 1.4b in ironman items that cost more than nearly 5 figures to get is insane.

Man up, accept that even if your worker for whatever reason guessed the pin that you hired a scammer guessing peoples pins... and when would be the next time you said this if someones pin was 1313 youd go "oh thats too easy" ?? Stop making excuses and make an honest attempt to make this right because at the moment you're hoping that your fake attitude towards the situation can negate the consequences of your actions as a "business" which appears to be a group of guys outsourcing the work received to random bidders in a chat..

Dont throw Spence a good client, honest lad, and a straight forward guy under the bus because you hired a scammer. Also stop trying to use his incomplete service payments as a way to say you're offering back 3b because honestly its only offering back 1.3b/2b "deposit" ...

Simple..

Yellow Hat

 

The correct amount owed is 1469M in unfinished services. There was a miscommunication that arrived us at 700m, apologies.

We are offering a refund + the deposit of the worker + his earnings. Which would now be totaled at 3.7b

This is per the agreement that our worker would not have the pin. Your claim that "You cannot prove someone guessed the pin" is exactly right.

As you've said yourself, there is reasonable doubt here. This report isn't even against me, but a partnered Discord with us, whom Spencer knows very well, and knows Toxicity is the owner of - yet you both decided to come after me. There has been a plethora of shady assumptions you'd like made in your favor, but you're dismissive of a very true fact - the worker you are holding accountable DID NOT, AND WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO, HAVE YOUR PIN.

You only argument is that we should've had our workers actively policing your pin for you. That's a hell of a rabbit hole, to push liability for all easily guessed pins on another party, and make us solely responsible for this choice.

You are backtracking, as on discord we already agreed Buchu was not to be held responsible, as nothing indicates him. You may hold these believes, but Spencer has already agreed Buchu seems trustworthy.

Again, it's another rabbit-hole you'd like to assume is more likely. Without proof, you'd like us to make a decision purely because Buchu, whom Spencer agreed is a good guy, MIGHT have outsourced and shared a pin? Despite absolutely nothing suggesting that? How is this the more likely scenario than a normal hack? What brings you to this conclusion? We have logs from Buchu for his work done. You are throwing blatantly false accusations out as an attempt to dismiss Spencer's guilt in this poorly decided PIN.

Again, we'd like to await Sythe staff weighing in on this, and can send all of our research and explanations on discord if we need to explain. But I think the facts listed here, alone, are enough to show we are attempting to share in the responsibility due here in resolving this.

I don't believe we should be solely responsible for this breach, as a faulty PIN of your choosing should not be held against us. There is no way for us to rule out the uncertainties we have about this case, nor does the timeline we have established from logs/discord timestamps etc suggest this was even remotely conclusively on our workers.

 

"As you've said yourself, there is reasonable doubt here. This report isn't even against me, but a partnered Discord with us, whom Spencer knows very well, and knows Toxicity is the owner of - yet you both decided to come after me. There has been a plethora of shady assumptions you'd like made in your favor, but you're dismissive of a very true fact - the worker you are holding accountable DID NOT, AND WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO, HAVE YOUR PIN."

Yes partnered , they use your name and you advertise / take profits from it, and if I'm not mistaken profit from as well correct? If I'm wrong with this please correct me and bring in the proper people involved.

"You only argument is that we should've had our workers actively policing your pin for you. That's a hell of a rabbit hole, to push liability for all easily guessed pins on another party, and make us solely responsible for this choice."

Well it's a rabbit hole you are trying to open saying that the worker "guessed it" or a "3rd party site magically got access to the account as soon as that worker had access to it" you are trying to say either it was a "guessable pin" or he got "hacked as soon as it hit your workers hands" no... If you want to use that its easy to guess as an excuse you should have better moderation of it considering most clients won't have knowledge of this prior. As a provider you should be covering all these possible options to prevent people from becoming "clients" and turning into "victims" of your services... He only had you on his account which led to this not a magical hacking fairy that chose to enter his account as soon as it reached your side... If a worker magically guessed it then its still on you and your worker guessed it stating you hired someone attempting to guess pins still leaving you at fault for having someone there that would hack an account? Even if a worker guessed a pin which im not saying happened you would still be at fault for having that worker employeed who cleaned the account? The results are A "WORKER" cleaned a "Clients account" the pin didnt clean the account your employee did/ whoever else you're partnered withs employee did...


"I don't believe we should be solely responsible for this breach, as a faulty PIN of your choosing should not be held against us. There is no way for us to rule out the uncertainties we have about this case, nor does the timeline we have established from logs/discord timestamps etc suggest this was even remotely conclusively on our workers."

You seemed pretty sure about it here before you gave us an offer than was mostly based off what you already owed spencer back.. You are offering 3.7b?? which 1.7b of is spencers.. So you are offering $820 for nearly 10k of lost items??? Stop with the nonsense.




A pin not faulty, the employee was faulty and your overview of what should of been a reasonable pin was faulty.. You are trying to avoid the full consequences of your actions as a business owner / partner to said other businesses... If you thought or others thought a pin like this was "faulty" then you should of had a TOS for it / made sure you weren't hiring people to scam him..

"The correct amount owed is 1469M in unfinished services. There was a miscommunication that arrived us at 700m, apologies."

Oh now it changes once the math is proven.. ok... As well its not 1469m because there is no ore on the account... its 1695m owed and over $5k worth of items we are asking you to recover and well over $10k lost... There is less than 50% of total USD value we are asking you to recover but you are simply trying to pay off around $1600 worth.... Which you know wont cover the losses.

you are saying you shouldn't be totally accountable and thats fine we aren't asking you to replace 100% of the items, even if its half and halfs fault which im denying and saying its 100% your fault for hiring a scammer we aren't asking for 100% back, we are asking for way less than 50% of whats loss... So yeah you are already getting a break on that and its not 100% refund that we are wanting..

Spence wants enough to play his account and its that simple.. We aren't going after you for 100% of everything on a 1:1 ratio are we?? So stop acting like we are head hunting you and saying give it all back?? Give the 25-40% back in ITEMS which he has requested and take the loss and spence will take the loss on the other 60-75% ?? Hes not telling you to give him back 100% stop acting like the victim and be a man.

If it isn't your fault and instead a business partner well take this as a wake up call and dont mix your name with people who can't afford to fix the issues they create and if you decide to work with them make sure you save up enough from the profits to fix the issues that will happen by dealing with people like this...

Also as stated we want proof that the workers had the deposits you are claiming and that the specific worker gave you the deposit you are saying he did for this server specifically

Yellow Hat

 

The PIN never reached the hands of our managers. Buchu was the only one that could have policed the PIN and said it was weak - which we do not require, this is not a service we offer (pen-testing and security advisories aren't our forte), and AGAIN, Spencer already said he did not want to hold that against Buchu on Discord. I'm not sure why you're still pushing the angle that we should've advised you on proper PIN security...

You keep saying he's a scammer, but NO CURRENT EVIDENCE CONCLUSIVELY SUGGESTS OUR WORKERS, again...
The only one that could be possibly at fault, TO WHICH YOU'VE ALREADY AGREED, is the worker WITHOUT PIN...

It's not a rabbit-hole to say he would've had to guess it. All evidence conclusively shows he did not have the pin. And since you've agreed he is the culprit, you also MUST agree he guessed it. What's the other accusation here? That he hacked it? That he used malicious software to retrieve it? I'm not sure what angle you're pushing for if you're saying he's responsible, but saying him "Guessing it" is a rabbit hole...

The items he requested back are not 25%-40%. But this is not for us to decide here. There is plenty of evidence right here, in the conflicting statements.

You both want to rule out Eslam guessing the PIN, but want to conclusively decide that despite not having the PIN, and ruling out any responsibility on Buchu, Eslam is 100% guilty. This doesn't even make sense...

I'm not going to be able to reply for some hours, but will be reachable, intermittently, on Discord. We shall await Sythe's opinion on the matter. Nothing about this case makes sense, and this back and forth is getting us nowhere.

Exxistential#6196
852610051915120668

 

There's more than enough evidence spencer didn't "scam himself" to get back "15-25% in items" as soon as it hit your workers hands...

Look whatever you want to try and hocus pocus up go ahead but its as simple as you want us to prove your worker scammed him?? It's clearly your worker what proof do you want us to do, log into the computer of your worker and travel in time to record him doing it??

Your employees had access to the account at the time of the scam and cost him over $10,000 worth of services/items and you want to sit here and try to make some misarranged conclusion about a "guessable pin" ... what a joke.

I never had this in over 1000 services and there were some pretty simple ass pins... Your worker even if they did guess a pin scammed the client?? No where in your TOS does it say "dont make a pin like this" so yeah its your fault 100% and get over it.. We aren't even asking for a refund in cash = to the 100% lost value, hes asking for 15-25% of his items back so he can play his account...

Yeah lets wait on staff to see what they say because its clear you aren't a man and want to try some hocus pocus BS to avoid paying out of your pocket for this situation.. You said you were paying out of pocket but 2b from the employees deposit and 1.7b back from what spence is owed = 0$ out of your pockets... You guys aren't taking anything from yourself to make this right and its visible in this entire conversation..

As mentioned a DNT for lying about how much spencer was owed back and now lying about them taking out of their own pockets which if you do the math above its 2b from the "deposit" and "1.7b from spencers OWED REFUND FROM IMCOMPLETE SERVICES" = 3.7b which they are offering back...

Their not trying to help him their trying to spend 0$ to fix this and 0m's the only thing they tried to do was profit 700m off this by lying about what he was owed back..

We tried to do this behind the scenes and I tried not to be like this but you guys really went shady and tried to keep most of the conversations on voice calls so there wouldn't be a paper trail to bite you in the ass but everything you've said above is here now and proof you tried and are trying to fuck spencer over without paying a single dollar out of your own pockets.

As stated above once again we want proof of the deposits.

Yellow Hat

 

I didn't lie about anything. I actively mentioned 700m owed in services back multiple times, as did Zuku, on discord, and was never corrected. Not once.
We had a miscommunication that you only corrected once it got to Sythe. Check Spencer's ticket, a worker ran the numbers in there and corrected the amount owed immediately before my post correcting the amount.

I said I was paying out of pocket with our previous offer, which was multiple bills worth of services over the value of the 3.7b offer. The experience you'd like us to ignore, the time spent collecting these resources, etc are all things we have to pay a worker to do. Spencer has been around, he knows the Raids server rates are extremely high compared to our main server - but even at our main server pricing, the services we previously offered were well over 3.7b in value. This was in good faith, because it was not at a point of slander and bashing each other on the internet.

I refuse to ignore obvious facts about the PIN, sorry.

 

Lying again "multiple times and never corrected".... Stop lying lol its clearly here when searching 700m it wasn't mentioned until the last message you sent in the group chat and Zuku never mentioned it once, so yeah I'm sure youll go back and edit up some messages now to make it appear that way.








End of conversation above^...

Why would we argue that in discord or waste more time there after seeing this.. No one mentioned 700m other than yourself this one time the 2nd to last message on the conversation before we decided to move it to Sythe.

I promise you will keep lying and I'll bury you in more ways than one..

Maybe its best you do wait for mods and stop speaking before you give me more than enough to prove you're a liar whos trying to backtrack his way out of spending money out of pocket to fix an issue your team caused.

No where in your TOS before you edited it does it say anything about "a pin type" or "faulty pins" if this is something new and an issue never experienced before either you haven't had enough clients with pins or you had the wrong worker on account, and thats assuming it was a "guessed pin" which in all actuality chances are it wasn't and more along the lines of an outsourced order gone wrong.



Take my advice and stop talking until staff replies.

I'm going to sleep anyway so maybe take this time to come up with a reasonable way to fix this before it becomes more serious than a simple DNT for owing a client scammed items and trying to manipulate the situation so you only give back the deposit + unfinished orders.

Once again we want proof of the deposits to see if you're lying there as well, either you or the workers should have proof deposits were given on certain dates for records.

Yellow Hat

 

Re-read what I said. I never said you mentioned the 700m - I said I actively mentioned it, MULTIPLE times, and was NOT CORRECTED. Your screenshots demonstrate exactly that. I never claimed you said 700m, but that my misunderstanding was not corrected until we got to Sythe. It wasn't with ill-intent, just a miscommunication nobody bothered correcting me on.

I work long hours, and this was late at night for me, you'll have to forgive me. I never once assumed the number to be wrong as we were discussing it without correction, on our end as well. Everyone just seemed to assume it was correct.



Chris doublechecked the numbers right after you corrected me, about an hour ago.
(this was in the ticket, visible to spence btw... Not sure why we would've checked it publicly with malicious intent, and not sure why you'd have ignored that it was checked in the ticket before continuing to bash me here..)

You keep twisting what I'm saying and calling me a liar, when I never indicated YOU said 700m, only that I went uncorrected.

It is certainly best that we wait for Sythe staff.

 

If your worker can't even calculate what is owed back how can we take you serious on everything else you're wanting to claim? It was as simple as 5 numbers and wasn't corrected until I made it obvious?? Also you are saying both of you said it and weren't corrected once internally? How do you expect to prove who scammed Spence when you can't even calculate a order? Do you make these issues when quoting a client? I bet you never underquote a client by 800m on "accident" .. I bet you're spot on when it comes to accepting money but when its time to pay out for a mistake you magically make the mistakes costing the client nearly 1b in a refund owed for incomplete services?

Stop with the nonsense.

Goodnight. Hope you come up with something reasonable because everything you're saying is twisting your entire situation up more than it ever had to be and sadly now its public instead of you manning up and fixing it behind the scenes like we were hoping to do for you.

Yellow Hat

 

You asked me to let him calm down, so we obliged.

Woke up to it being taken to Sythe.



I believe we've been unrealistically professional and courteous, despite not having the same treatment, in our best efforts to resolve this with you.

Despite this, we still made "good faith" offers. You have been nasty and rude from the beginning, and shady as hell.

Spence was supposedly unable to communicate on Discord due to a "business trip", but we were staring at this:
While on this trip.

Not damning alone, but 17 hours, with only a laptop, while being too mobile to speak to us?
Oh, but he might've left it on his Desktop, right... Oh, but he was on a business trip all weekend, and this pic is from yesterday, when he was still unable to talk.

But maybe he remoted to his PC from his laptop and played for a bit... But then, why was using Discord to chat more difficult than REMOTING to a desktop to play OpenOSRS, rather than just playing on the laptop?

Nothing here makes sense to us... That's why we await Sythe's judgement. This is very weird, in all regards.

 

As I said I'm going to sleep and yes Spencer was gone all weekend and arrived late yesterday? It's not on him to communicate with you as I was appointed to take care of it by him which you all knew and avoided.

You showing how he was too busy to talk proves nothing? He didn't plan to get scammed before his business trip, and some of us actually do REAL Business outside of this OSRS life so yeah he was on a trip and I was left to handle it but you shady little rats avoided the situation hoping to get a voice call in alone with him.

The only weird thing is not actually weird and its you being shady.

How can any of this make sense to you when you can't even calculate a proper refund lol.

He was too busy to discuss this and its why I was left in charge but you guys spent that time trying to find ways out of the situation and ignoring my constant requests to find a solution

I'll make sure to show all those pictures when I wake up, the constant avoidance as well spencer saying to talk to me over the weekend as he was away?

Ohh thats right you didn't want to talk to me you wanted to trap the client who doesn't understand how all of this works into a fucked up situation so you could scam him.

Lets chat soon I'll be on tomorrow with plenty of screenshots to make you look more of a fool than you are now.

Yellow Hat

 

Also that picture showing OSRS open for 17 hours proves what?? That he left a client open while he was gone?? No one plays for 17 hours and most people only close their clients on restarts or updates?

You're making desperate attempts to make a simple situation complicated and I promise you I'll make sure 100% that its shown everytime you try to avoid it by being shady.

@LordZuku you too bud.

Yellow Hat

 

We communicated with Sythe staff, and used messages here to convey our intentions behind waiting for Spencer. We were told we could wait for Spencer, and Spencer agreed that speaking Monday was fine. You were the only one pushing for a solution sooner.

And this picture shows he was on it for 17 hours while having not been on it during the trip...
Did he end his trip, start the client, and resume his trip?

It was launched 17 hours prior to this screenshot, and reached over 20 hours running before saying he was "home". But that indicates he was either already home to have launched it 20 hours previously, or was able to remote to his desktop to play (for some reason, his laptop couldn't handle OSRS?) but not speak to us.

It just looks fishy.

Us refusing to speak until Spencer was able to chat was pre-approved though, as we simply wanted to obtain his logs and clear things up for ourselves before proceeding. We have a duty to investigate things on your side as well, and this was within reason. Again, Spencer agreed to wait until we spoke.

 

Just saving ya the trouble.
We had a timeframe established, and you were not conducive to this actually completing.
You actively delayed things, in fact, by having him not join the call until you returned.

You made ample demands, and plenty of threats. I'm sure you'll twist this into "just protecting a friend", but Spencer was much more accommodating, and he was the actual victim. We did nothing shady by asking to adhere to an agreed upon timeframe with the victim.

 

I gave you my Runelite/OpenOSRS logs @Exxistential so you clearly know that I wasn't playing Runescape while I was away for the weekend. I have flight info, time stamps on Instagram, and event info for all the things I was doing this weekend also if you'd like me to provide that I can lol. I've also never had OpenOSRS on my laptop because I was told it doesn't work on a Mac, I can also prove I've never had it on my macbook if you need haha

We took to Sythe because per our call with @LordZuku he was very clear that the offer he gave was the only one we'd be receiving. And it was a very low and unfair offer.

The fact of the matter is that you guys accepted responsibility after viewing my logs. Otherwise why would you have offered us a solution? Out of the kindness of your hearts? Doubtful

Buchu actually hit me up offering to give me his Ironman account as a replacement. This is a far better offer than the Mafioso team made. That's pretty sad.

I also dismissed Buchu from being at fault because @LordZuku told me you guys ruled him out. Plus he seemed like a standup guy. But I personally have no evidence of anything so me saying he's not at fault doesn't prove anything. He had a far bigger deposit so it wouldn't make sense for him to clean my iron.

You guys narrowed it down to one employee and that is in fact Eslam. Whether he received the pin from Buchu or guessed it himself, he had ill intent. And you guys hired someone that would do shit like this. This is 100% on you regardless of an "easily guessable" pin, which I've had in the past with orders with you guys. Like "1994". But hey, we never had this issue before. So maybe trying to blame the pin is the wrong angle here. You should be blaming yourselves for hiring a piece of shit that would do something like this.

Also it's very insulting that you're trying to use the money from the services that I paid for to pay for the items that your worker stole from me. What kind of business does that lol

I asked @Yellow_Hat_OSRS_Services to help me out on this and get involved because he knows from past experience that you guys have taken advantage of people so he didn't want to see that happening to me, since we are close friends. And I appreciate his help. You guys might not like that he's involved but tough shit. I don't like the fact that you hired an employee that cleaned my ironman account.

And yes like Yellow Hat mentioned, no where in your terms does it state that "if your account gets hacked due to an easily guessable pin, we are not responsible"
So maybe this is a learning lesson for you guys. You need to be better at hiring employees and taking preventative measures to avoid shit like this happening in the future.

The list of items I asked for is not very much compared to all the time and money it took me to get those. If you don't have the decency to make this right for a long-time customer who has spent a lot of money with you guys, then it speaks worlds about you and your business. And this won't go away so easily for you.

 

Being a business owner myself, I would do anything to fix a situation like this with a client. It reflects very poorly on you guys with how you've been handling it. The community is watching.

This is what I want from you guys, non-negotiable:

-dragon pickaxe
-enough ore to reach 99 smithing, including 99 smithing since this was already paid for
-blowpipe
-trident
-serp
-full arma
-10k rune & addy darts
-all zennie jewelry
-219k blood runes
-dwh
-faceguard
-all DK rings
-bandos top/bot
-prims & eternals
-blade of saeldor (i bought this from you guys already, with Corrupt Gauntlet KC)
-slayer helm/black mask
-DHL, including zammy spear
-whip
-fury
-600 super combats
-450 sara brews
-1100 ppots
-1200 sup restores
-850 stams
-enough COX KC to cover the 3 unique items, I had DHCB/Dinhs/Buckler. Scroll drops will not take away from KC for this and dupes will not take away from KC (if tbow is pulled then I'm happy to pay out of my pocket for that)
-finish the 99 agility I paid for
-enough teak logs for 99 cons and turned into logs since this was also already paid for
-guaranteed timeline for all of this
-guaranteed completion, if my account gets banned due to your team, then you will replace it with an ironman with equal value and skill

Tough shit if this is too "rng" for you guys
It was for me also when I grinded these items out

This is probably less than half of what was stolen from me so suck up the loss, make this right, and let's move on

 

There are some misunderstandings being made.

First of all, we should not have to implement into our TOS that our clients have common sense.

secondly, we’re not “using your money to pay for services”. We are offering it in the proposed refund.

in the service offer we gave you, it’s best to break it down like this:
We will handle you the amount of money back from his logs, his deposit, and your ticket refund.
With that money, you can then purchase, from us, the services we offered - the services we offered will far exceed that 3.9b, but that is what’s going on. I think you’re thinking you should get refunded and still get the services you paid for? I’m not entirely sure tbh…

As for the unwanted experience, I get what you mean. However, you’re asking us to ignore paid parts of this package.
To you, those parts are worth $0, sure. But to us, we WILL PAY the worker for experience gained, and it’s several bills higher than you realize. We can’t just ignore it, it’s collateral cost.

You both keep trying to use the fact that we made a service offer against us. This is not because we accept blame, it’s because we felt you were genuine, and wanted to find a middle grounds. You also mention “Well, Zuku made it sound like the offer he made on the call was the only one, so we came here”. But we made the offer you brought here in chat, an hour or so after the call? And it was already a different offer? We were actively discussing it, why lie and say it didn’t sound like we were making other offers when we literally did?

This whole thing is a he said/she said bashing competition now.

I think it’s best we wait for Sythe staff to weigh in.

 

We decided to look into account security further, for your benefit.

With your service orders from us or other service providers, you use the same naming scheme: xxxxxxxyyyy (will be in a reported post for confidentiality).

Anyone could have used the discord plugin to view hidden channels to see you had a ticket with us, as your ticket has your name on it. Anyone with knowledge from any of your previous service providers could have reasonably guessed your password/pin combination.

Just another fact that chalks this up to being "weird".

 

Haha now the story changes! I love it