Just to Clarify

We all get hectic times where we move from transaction-transaction-transaction and end up forgetting to vouch/thank customers, so we do it later. Either way we have the ability to bump our threads at any time we want if we wanted to do that break no rule of Sythe. I am not worried about not being able to keep my thread at the top. Trust me its not hard. I'm annoyed at not being able to interact with my customers in my thread. And as it stands doing it a few minutes after the customer does is intractable. Are we really going to start making more rules such as a rule that determines how long is too long to thank someone after they thanked you in your thread? Its ridiculous.

 

But we aren't a laize faire system or even a limited intrusion capitalistic system at Sythe. Most things here are regulated to what you can and can't sell, how you can sell them, and how you go about selling them.




Compare those threads circled in red, yours and R2's, to the one in pink. Which one are you most likely going to go to? The one that is at the top and has over 100,000 views and several thousand posts. Why do they have several thousand posts and several thousand views because they are bumped near constantly. Almost 3k of the posts in R2s thread are either his or r2anne's, most likely bumping the thread. True, not?

How is it fair to get to bump your thread with "Thanks" or "Added" or anything of that nature? Or as Just Un Dude said posting a vouch several hours after just to get a sneaky bump in.

 

There is no use for thanking a customer hours after the trade.
Absolutely no reason to do it on your thread hours later.

I always just say thanks on msn after the trade or via pm if it went through PM, it's not that hard.

 

Yeah but you failed to do research on the seller in pink. When he started he rarely merchanted gp, in fact he sold gp to R2 and myself. He was a farmer, not a merchant. Farmers can sell there GP off fast and don't need to have their thread advertised constantly. On the other hand a merchant like R2 will need to have his thread advertised constantly because for every second he isn't near the top is profit he loses. There have been times where I was in farm status and you would notice that my thread was not active at all. Even if Mark was a merchant when he first joined how is post count and views relevant? It could just mean he doesn't work as hard as we do.

 

Why are you comparing the sizes of threads? I have been selling on Sythe for 5 years+, I should be expected to have a lot of business. I am constantly active and always viewing Sythe forums, and before all this bumping mumbo jumbo, I would be posting on my thread 6-7 times a day.

If you are saying newcomers cannot have success, I say that is grossly false. Arcus started selling in July of this year, we all had our posts, and the old bumping rules. He is now one of the most successful on the site. So please do not tell me newcomers were unable to succeed.

The fact is, when others have businesses built up with solid reputations, it should be HARD for newcomers to set up a business directly competing with them. This is simple capitalism. If you want to take out your competition, you need to have a competitive advantage. Whether that is pricing, advertising, or reputation. We have a reputation, and that is something we EARNED. We should not expect a newcomer who has not put anywhere near the time and effort into their store to be able to compete at the same price points. THAT would be unfair.

 

Also if you take a look inside of Mark's thread his last page is filled with infraction worthy posts that break this bump rule, so I don't see why you are using him as an example lol.


You can look at it in other ways too. Keeping it the old way made it better for weeding out scammers. Nowadays I see so many 300+ vouch users get banned for scamming its disgusting. The fact that they can get so reputable so fast is scary because within a month people will most likely already trust them with billions, and thats where they seize their opportunity. Make it a tougher market. If someone is legitimate they will stay.

And as R2 said it was very possible to succeed as a newcomer in the old system. I was amazed at how fast Arcus managed himself, and also Viou.

And another thing about post count and views. Advertisement. Even if its little things like Cosrob displaying a link to my shop in his tournament. Its going to get my views and posts.

 

What? I didn't suggest anything, I was just showing you what Snow Patrol did, and I thought it was a great way of handling that situation. It wasn't meant to be a way around the rule. I also stated that posting two vouches in a row is spam.

 

Think about what you are saying and you will realize you are completely and utterly wrong. The rule we have in place now does absolutely NOTHING at ALL to help smaller sellers. The rule we had in place before did absolutely NOTHING at ALL to help smaller sellers. No bumping rule we have ever had as done anything to make it so that larger sellers are at the top of the forum less often. They have more customers, so they are at the top more. That is how it works and it will keep working like that unless you ban posting in the market all together.

 

R2 + Anne have posted 32.1% of the posts in their thread.
kmjt has posted 16.6% of the posts in his thread.
Mark has posted 45.9% of the posts in his thread.

Mark is being a lot more of a bumper than either of the other two.

 

Exactly as SuF said, the inherent fact that a customer post bumps a thread already gives an advantage to busier threads. This is simply a fact of all forums. Popularity breeds more popularity. People are drawn to the more popular threads; this is a way for the average user to quickly navigate forums and find the most relevant and pertinent information. Threads that aren't popular and don't get interest from the community die. THIS MAKES FORUMS WORK!

New sellers who offer nothing to the table will have trouble getting customers. This is a given. However, new sellers who provide a competitively priced, quality service WILL GET CUSTOMERS. This is NOT A PROBLEM! This has NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM! I really beg you to show me someone who has put in a serious long-term effort and not seen results.

You guys are essentially trying to fix something that isn't broken. By your logic, new traders such as Viou / Arcus / BSGPSeller even, should never had had success. But they DID! In the "OLD" system! As a matter of fact, the top sellers in the Gold Exchange are a COMPLETE MIX from different eras.

All this system does is confuse everybody. New traders are THE WORST OFFENDERS. Go to the accounts section. Tell me how many of them should technically be banned for all the incessant bumping there. If you tried to explain this rule to them, THEY WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Try and enforce this rule to the masses, and it won't happen. Instead, only those who are SUCCESSFUL are being targeted. From what mods are saying, this rule seems to be some sort of weird attempt to allow new sellers to gain popularity more quickly. Why is this even necessary? Why do new sellers need a break here? Sythe really is an easy enough place to start a business already for a newcomer.

I honestly believe the real motivation behind these changes is that certain sellers are jealous of others' success. We aren't talking about new sellers, we are talking about longstanding sellers who hate to see their threads not getting attention. Instead of accepting that their businesses aren't being competitive, they BLAME THE SYSTEM, NOT THEMSELVES. They say it's the bumps, it's the abuse, blah blah blah.

I say, if the rules are the same for everyone, there are no advantages / disadvantages. Period. So stop overcomplicating everything, and just go back to the rules that governed this site for over 5 years now.

If you are going to actually enforce this rule where someone cannot post on their own thread within an 8 hour span, you will need to apply it to new users as well. And really, in the long run, they will be the ones getting infractions / bans. Not us.

 

The staff isn't the one who actually started this problem, it seems big markters prefer knocking out competition like this by reporting what they consider to be a bump so it slowly adapted, out of the people who report people for voouching for another person on their thread or confirmations as excessive bumps its always another big marketeer. It was not by our logic which we considered vouching for somebody on your thread to consider as a thank but rather the competitors in the market. The bump rule was lowered to favour the more active members, and is slowly being manipulated from competition in the markets. If you don't believe me check your competitions reports you will see how it is being changed slowly from their reports.

 

Pun, if you refer to this quote, I believe it outlines exactly what you mentioned. Why cater to the slimy guys going around reporting everybody else's posts? The rules have always been (or they have always been interpreted as):

Within a certain timeframe (has changed over the years):

- Double posting is not allowed (includes all members of said service), Delete posting is not allowed

And that's it! So simple! Yet EVERYBODY can understand it and there is no ambiguity. It's enforceable, and easy to explain to other users.

Otherwise you get PROBLEMS. What happens if a customer says: "talking to you on msn"... and you're not actually talking to them. AKA they are currently talking to an impostor. Now, anyone on the forums will say, I should be allowed to reply to him no matter what, correct? And yet, this goes directly against the rules.

Perhaps the underlying idea of this rule is a dandy one. But the fact is, this rule is not enforceable, and therefore will not function. Simplicity is king.

 

How hard can it be to just play by the rules like everyone else?

There is nothing wrong with some competition, if everyone plays by the same rules.

 

That just shows the problem with the rule. It shouldn't matter if something is reported if it's not breaking a rule. No one should be able to change the way the rules are applied through reports, there shouldn't be that much room for interpretation. I think this problem is likely exacerbated by the fact that when doing spam reports moderators essentially get twice as many mod logs if they infract for every report.

I pretty much agree with R2. Imo there was never a problem with the excessive bumping rule being 'double posting within x time frame = infraction'. All that the new rule has done is bring about a bunch of conflict.

 

I thought it wasn't but when its being reported multiple times with proof of it being infracted in the past its hard not to infract for it. I don't believe its the fact mods wanting more logs but rather the fact its unclear to consider what falls under "added" and "thanks".

Forgot to mention I also do agree with R2p it was much better left as it was with "double posting within x time frame = infraction"

 

Essentially that's what I've been saying for months now about not creating grey areas within the rules. This isn't a country. I think we can make clear, simply and enforceable rules that everyone can easily understand.

 

Then why shouldn't the rule just be changed back to what it was? There seemed to be so much less conflict on the rule when it was at the 24 hours no double post. Why was the rule edited in the first place?

 

I agree with r2 in every point.

 

I agree with this entirely.

 

What if someone asks for a quote, you quote them, then another quote is requested by another customer 10 minutes later? Can you respond?