Just how 'tolerant' should we be?

[Pakistani]

Well, I don't want to get into that, it's ignorant to say "everyone's brainwashed", maybe there's something others aren't understanding.

This has gone off topic, it was about a "friendship" verse from the Quran, to women's rights now...

Totally agree. I only posted on this thread because SMR was quoting verses of the Quran out of context.

 

[Pakistani]

As a Muslim, you're most likely biased in your presentation of Islam in the United Kingdom. I consider a minority to be assimilated, rather than a majority. Tacit animosity has been developing all over Europe in response to the growing Islamification of our historically secular or Christian nationstates. Recently, we have observed a change in the way ''multiculturalism'' - a euphemism for the presence of Islam in Europe - is both approached and spoken of. Indeed, a few years ago it would have been unthinkable for a contemporary, leading politican to speak out against multiculturalism. Angela Merkel of Germany broke this taboo a few months ago when she declared that ''multiculturalism had failed'' in her native Germany. Her comment was largely welcomed by the German people, who openly discredit their Turkish cohabitants. When I was in Berlin, one German referred to the Turks as the ''scum of Germany'', and, with an ever-growing Muslim populace of 4%, Germans are rightfully worried about the state of their country: the native German birthrate is in sharp decline, whereas Muslims continue to enter the country.

Following Merkel's declaration, other European leaders also spoke out. David Cameron of the United Kingdom, as well as Dutch and French leaders. Their declarations have encouraged the people of Europe to speak out; if leading politicians are able to bypass political correctness, the common people feel equally able to. For too long has Islamophobia been regarded as ''racism'' - it has nothing to do with race, and those who examine the concept of racism will understand this.



I agree wholeheartedly. I find the ever-growing presence of Islam in the United Kingdom quite distasteful, and perceive growing animosity amongst British people towards Islam and Muslims within the country. Unfortunately, Islam is incompatible with the British national identity, which is reflected in the utter and complete failure of assimilation, marking the failure of multiculturalism, or, behind the euphemistic smokescreen, integration of Islam into British society.

I have no doubts that the British people will rise up against Islam within time.

Was waiting for you to post. *sigh*

I don't see how we have failed to mix in with the British.

 

[Pakistani]

There's no point in sighing at me - I'm merely posting what I observe in Britain today. Other people are too scared to speak out.

Well from what I see we have mixed in with the british what more do you want us to do? Can you give me an example of how we haven't?

 

[Pakistani]

Gladly. You acknowledge it even in your own post: you refer to British people and Muslims as two separate people, which they are, as Islamic ideals are contrary to those of Britain. In Britain, we recognise females as equal to men, and we a liberal, socially progressive nation; tolerant of homosexuality, promiscuity, transvestitism, etc. Islam condemns such individuals to death. I don't care to debate verses from the Qu'ran; what the Qu'ran says is largely irrelevant - to see what a religion is like, we ought to look at its adherents and leaders.

We observe Muslim women trailing behind their male overlords, we observe the continuing presence of bhurkas, and we feel naturally that Islam does not belong here. This is because only a slight minority have integrated and assimilated fully. The majority live voluntarily in segregated areas, speaking poor English and intimidating the native populace. We are tired of mosques, of the cultivation of extremism on British soil, and, moreover, of the intolerance perpetrated continually by Muslims, despite our own tolerance towards them.

Why are you so proud of your Pakistani origins if you consider yourself to be British? Because Islam is incompatible with the British national identity.

Answered most of these accusations in the other posts.

If in britain females are equal to men, why is there still a 12.6% gender pay gap?

I consider myself to be a British Pakistani not just British.

 

[Pakistani]

12.6% is pretty low considering women only started working in this country less than 100 years ago. There's certainly a way to go, but in terms of attitudes, there is an unequivocal acceptance of gender equality. There most certainly isn't in Muslim-majority countries, nor is there amongst Muslim communities in the United Kingdom.



Why?

Because my parents are Pakistani? And I'm proud of my roots...

 

[JstarD]

and not only do they refuse to assimilate (which is fine if your way of life doesn't interfere with anyone else's), but demand Sharia Law, burn poppies, want to turn the White House into a Mosque, etc...

Many Islamic people (the non extremist type) technically disobey the writings of their sacred scripture in non-Islamic countries as they don't see non believers as enemies.
I, personally, think that Society does its job in how it builds into us morality and social etiquette, even to such strong believers of Religion.

What you have to remember is that the very vast majority of Islamic believers do not partake in this behaviour outside their own borders.
You see, the media have a huge role in a lot of this as they are the ones who overlook any believers with good morals and responsibility, and instead (if you read between the lines you'll notice this) seem to claim that all are the same, and they all take part in things like protests and burning poppies etc.

Why can't we just get along...

 

[Pakistani]

What exactly are you proud of? Where were you born? It is this dual-alleigance that characterises a number of Muslims in this country. The most troublesome are those that have alleigance primarily to Islam and their ''home countries''.

Whatever Finn.



Your constant bashing of Islam's getting boring.

 

[Pakistani]

Many Islamic people (the non extremist type) technically disobey the writings of their sacred scripture in non-Islamic countries as they don't see non believers as enemies.
I, personally, think that Society does its job in how it builds into us morality and social etiquette, even to such strong believers of Religion.

What you have to remember is that the very vast majority of Islamic believers do not partake in this behaviour outside their own borders.
You see, the media have a huge role in a lot of this as they are the ones who overlook any believers with good morals and responsibility, and instead (if you read between the lines you'll notice this) seem to claim that all are the same, and they all take part in things like protests and burning poppies etc.

Why can't we just get along...

I totally agree. Won't be posting on this thread again =/

 

[Pakistani]

If this is the approach you take to intellectual discussion and debate, I encourage you to abstain from such discussions in the future.



I am not ''bashing'' anything. I have Muslim friends. I'm simply reporting my observations and what I perceive to be the tacit inter-community animosity within this country. Such issues should be openly discussed. When they are not, extremism is cultivated. We have seen it occur in Germany in the early 20th century, and, more recently, we've seen it occurring all over the globe. Particularly shocking to me is that ''British'' Muslims - those born in Britain - have been the perpetrators of terrorism. That those born and raised on British soil are capable of such extremism illustrates with startling clarity that something is severely wrong.

I never wanted to het into a debate I only posted on this thread because SMR was quoting verses from the quran out of context.

 

[Pro Porkchop]

Because Islam is incompatible with the British national identity.

This sounds like bashing to me...

Anyways, OT: I have no problem with Islams or how they live in their home country. The only problems I see are when they commit acts of terrorism on other countries, and forcing of religion on those who are not in native Islam countries.

 

[Grrr]

I'm not muslim and I have lots of friends who are muslim and lots others who are of different ethnicity who have integrated into my community. I also have lots of majority ethnicity friends so I'm not biased. My friends from ethnic minorities are very tolerant and mainly agree with all of my views and principles which I hold. They also agree with my politics and speak better English than a lot of people in Britain.

While we are on the point of minorities, in your opinion having to speak English. How many British people who emigrate from the UK to other countries actually bother to learn that language? I doubt very much that they do. Of the hundreds of thousands, how many of them integrate into other countries socities and keep in line with the values and morals which are the "norm" there?

And who decides what minority groups who come to the UK should believe in as the "norms" of the UK? As I can almost 100% guarantee that my political beliefs and morals will be different from yours.

Although your point regarding your homosexuality I strongly agree with, no one should be made to feel like that. You shouldn't have to hide it from anyone, ever. And it's sad that at this day in age homophobia is still one of forms of prejudice which is still openly accepted and goes un-challenged.

I wouldn't say Finn is "bashing" anyone, he is open to his opinion and rightly so, we live in a society where people are free to these views if they can be expressed without hatred.

 

[wtp]

The Muslims I know don't assimilate well. They view themselves more Muslim than American, which is a problem.

Muslims aren't the only group though. Look at Jewish people a lot of them rarely interact with people who aren't Jewish.

 

[Pro Porkchop]

How is stating that something is incompatible with the British national identity 'bashing'? If I called Muslims 'dirty fuckwits', that'd be bashing. But I'd never make such a remark. People just like to call things 'bashing' when they disagree, and it prevents intellectual, healthy debate.

You were just looking for someone to speak out against you. It is obvious you were looking for someone to challenge the "bashing". And I was that person.

 

[hoxile]

I love religion. apart from terrorists. They can go burn in hell.

I love muslims who call everyone racists.. when infact they are the racism community. Burning our poppies, it's sick. They need shooting at.

 

[Justin87]

The Muslims I know don't assimilate well. They view themselves more Muslim than American, which is a problem.

Muslims aren't the only group though. Look at Jewish people a lot of them rarely interact with people who aren't Jewish.

Same can be said for any ethnic group. Chinese, Italians, Hispanics....

 

[Pakistani]

I love religion. apart from terrorists. They can go burn in hell.

I love muslims who call everyone racists.. when infact they are the racism community. Burning our poppies, it's sick. They need shooting at.

Wasn't the burning of poppies because you burnt the Quran?

 

[oblivion9032]

If in britain females are equal to men, why is there still a 12.6% gender pay gap?

That is relatively minor compared to how women and homosexuals are treated in muslim countries.