Heroism and the Military

Before I start, I know this thread is going to annoy people, or make people angry. If you're one of those people, don't just post a stupid knee jerk reaction. This is SFA, after all.

In this thread, I want to address what I see as the false heroism, almost deification, of soldiers of our various nations. This by no means applies to all soldiers.

A soldier is, by definition, one who 'One who serves in an army for pay; one who takes part in military service or warfare'.

The important section there is the pay. A soldier fights, and often kills, who is he told to for money.

War is a terrible thing, there is no doubt of that. Wholesale murder of humans on both sides for often trivial causes, or causes that could be solved diplomatically, are used as justification for the most disgusting of human acts.

And yet, when these paid killers return home, they are treated as heroes! Well done, you fought for money, what a hero!

I understand it's an entirely different matter when the conflict is a war of defense, but at present we (the western coalition) are fighting far away for an increasingly blurred agenda.

I've rambled here and I'm tired, so I'm going to finish. In summary, why should we respect soldiers above anyone else? At present, they are not defending us from anyone, and nor will they be any time in the near future. They are simply doing a job, which they chose, for money. And yet for some reason many people treat them as near gods, and equally many soldiers (including those on this very forum) demand these standards of respect.

Discuss.

 

It is not my intent to begin a flame match however there is much more going on in these conflicts than most will ever understand. However, back to the "Soldier".. Have you ever worn a uniform? How about tracing the freedom that you currently have to peck away on the keyboard? Soldiers serve a purpose and in the end their service provides you rights. Yes... I am a soldier and I have given up much in my life. Heck we can use today as a perfect example.. While I sit on a post in the middle of Afghanistan, where do you find yourself today? When you run outside and jump in the car did you bother to stop and see if a bomb had been planted while your were asleep? All of our Military Forces deserve respect and honor.. I can assure you they are not getting paid enough to be away from family and/or risk their lives the way we do. Unless you've served in the military you really have no clue what we give up to follow in the footsteps of those who served before us... In closing, No one will ever understand who I am and why I do what I do. My own opinion, I do it for the brothers who stand by my side. If I was not there, who would stand with them, You?

Also as a last line.. A soldier does not establish Agenda. He follows the orders of the person/people your popular vote elected into office.. Stand-down your military force and see how safe things remain at home. I see this same thing all the time until we packup to depart.. You need us much more than you'll ever know. Look around the world at the places that lack soldiers.

 

I don't need Americans (and Australians) killing Afghanis to feel safe, nor are the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan protecting my 'Rights' or my 'Freedom'. I also resent that my country has been dragged into your war, merely because you asked us to.

In any case, thank you for posting and providing another side of the argument.

 

lol... I have reviewed many of your SFA postings. I'm guessing you're in college and live at home with Mom/Dad paying the bills? Let me guess, opening books and maybe reading more than one person's view as to why our world works the way it does? Congrats.. You're learning.. but you are far from ready to make world decisions or even begin to understand why they're made. In about 10-years when you get a real job just maybe you'll understand why we do the things we do. Life is not easy and understanding why we would rather fight away from home is so you do not get a ring-side seat to something I can see you lack the stomach/heart for. "Americans killing Afghanis"? Are you just plain stupid? wtf do you know about this? Stop talking about something you have no clue over kid. I walk through the Afghan streets each day listening to people begging us not to leave in fear of the old ways returning.. Ever seen a girl gutted of her female parts so as not to experience pleasure? There are some real things happening over here you have no friggin idea of. Stick to playing runescape or some other fantasy game hero; you're so far out of your comfort zone its' not even funny. Enjoy your freedom young man, someone is out there making sure you keep it.

 

yeah, the idea that these soldiers are fighting for the money is ridiculous.

they get paid peanuts for risking their lives everyday, they're hardly motivated by the money.

but you can't argue about all the civilian casualties and WHOLE villages that are being destroyed for uncertain reasons

there are a great number of Afghans who wish the US would just leave their country, as well are there a great number of Afghans who welcome their stay as long as they help make things better and don't destroy their villages and kill their families

let's be real, the country is in shambles, people don't have clean running water, they have no homes, no schools, no jobs, nothing

there hasn't been much done to improve their condition over there

btw my uncle is a vp war consultant for a big corporation for the middle east

 

You honestly think they do it FOR the money? It's not like they're making top dollar. The money is support their own family. Just because they join the army doesn't mean they won't have a normal life later or that they don't have a family to support already. The money enables them to go defend their country and at the same time support their family. If they did it without pay the army would no longer be as successful, because money IS a necessity.

 

Judging by your ranks and user title, I'd say you're the one caring about this site more. But anyways, I've been told by many friends that the war is Afghanistan is more of an adventure then a war, and that in some places there is hardly any danger. What you're fighting is a war that doesn't exist, simply because if it was even a war you go around like Vikings pillaging innocent civilians. Want to know what a real war was? Ask a WWII veteran, not some 20 year old kid pwning n00bs in Afghanistan.

 

^ Exactly, the troops in service have it made. Look back on WWI-Vietnam, it was shit my dads a Vietnam veteran I can just ask him.

 

What would we do without these "20 year old kids pwning n00bs in Afghanistan"?

Not to mention these "old" veterans weren't always old. They were once "20 year old kids pwning n00bs".

So if we don't have 100,000 deaths, then they aren't risking their life and they shouldn't be considered a hero? Will you give your service? I know I wont, I could never do that. They're heroes.

 

What is that suppose to mean? And reference the typical soldiers' age, hate to tell you this but under 20 has been the common age of a soldier since the dawn of war; read a book or two. Oh and how about the talk to a veteran.. I'll pass on that one as I'm not anywhere near 20 and if I were to push aside Iraq and Afghanistan, that still leaves me 2 conflicts that you have most likely have eaten Pop-corn while watching on the Big Screen... Watch your lane Wizardzgame... your out of it.

 

Just wondering if your input from friends came from any of these 139 Canadian "Adventure" Seekers?

Since February 2002, 139 Canadian soldiers have died in the war in Afghanistan or in support of the war. Of these, 117 were due to hostile circumstances, including 84 due to improvised explosive devices (IED) or landmines, 22 due to rocket-propelled grenade, small arms or mortar fire, 11 due to suicide bomb attacks, and one died falling from a high ground position on a cliff during a combat operation that involved firefight. An additional 22 soldiers have died in accidents or other non-combat circumstances; 6 due to "friendly fire", 6 in vehicle accidents, two in an accidental helicopter crash, 2 from accidental falls, 2 from accidental gunshots, 1 suicide death and 3 unspecified non-combat-related deaths including 1 at a support base in the Persian Gulf. Canada has suffered the third-highest absolute number of deaths of any nation among the foreign military participants.

Down Playing the risk of a War-Zone is typically done by those that have never been in one..

Now back to the thread.. What do you think? Here is a small snap-shot of 139 Soldiers that will not be coming back to think about being a hero or cash-in on thier merc rewards. They will not be with family, friends, loved-one and/or anyone else again as they selected to represent their country/leaders popular vote elected. A soldier's life is not one of money, fame and anything near being a quest of a Hero.. Now I'm not saying this is popular opinion however I would say I have a little more insight as to what a soldier would think when it comes to this thread.. I don't give a damn what you think of me and my brothers' in arms. I serve a tradition that perhaps only your fathers would be able to support/comment on. I am a soldier and stand ready to follow the directives of my leaders... I am not the one that signs your country up for war/conflict, I'm the one that deploys based upon their orders. I deploy with all of the best intentions yet unless you've been in the middle of all hell breaking lose, don't talk to me about the fight to survive/live.

 

Wrong on all counts, don't make assumptions, you look extremely stupid.

I'm going to ignore the rest of this post for the same reason.

I've already explained why I don't need two wars in the Middle East to protect me from Terrorism (with a capital T). Repeating your argument ad infinitum gets you nowhere. How about you tell me how pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan will make me lose my Freedom (again with the capital F).

Just regarding what I said about money, I think I expressed myself wrong. I didn't mean that soldiers should not be respected because they're paid, I meant that a soldier chooses to take up his or her profession, and that nobody forces them to.

 

So if if we FORCED people to fight, THEN you would respect them? That's pretty much reverse of what the whole world thinks. They CHOOSE to spend their time fighting for our freedom, and THAT is why they deserve respect etc.

 

No, if people volunteered to 'fight for freedom' for no monetary gain, then I would respect them. Otherwise, they're doing a job like any other.

 

Like any other? What other job do you go and fight? Once again, they have families/futures. It's not like they're making top dollar.

 

This is the worst thread I've seen thus far. For someone to to even post about this has balls, but in my opinion you have none. Why would you even say that about troops? You sir, deserve no respect period. Idk what you hope to gain in life, but good luck!!!!!

 

If deifying soldiers is our purpose in life, I'm slightly disturbed.

 

Humans evolved 100% free with all the rights in the world. You can't provide anyone with rights, you can only take them away.

Because somehow itty bitty al qaida can fly halfway around the world and overthrow one of the most powerful countries in the world and enslave 300 million people? Please lol... I would rather you stay here and protect me from law enforcement.

No one wants you over there in the first place bro, except the guys in DC who are making millions sitting on their asses and the people who are controlled by the media and think that terrorists are going to take over the world. If you voluntarily chose to go bust your ass in the middle east for no apparent reason then that's your problem. Otherwise I don't care and I have as much respect for you as for any other person, actually a little less because you're simply a pawn for the government, a lot less actually...

What you do will never compare to what people in Vietnam and WWII did. Never.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082500940.html

So you're out there messing around in the middle east just because your buds are doing it too... great.

The electoral vote is what elects people into office buddy, not the popular vote, it has been doing that for about 200 years.

You do realize that by invading another country leaves the US completely vulnerable to attack right? What if a country invaded us right now? Oh you guys are on the opposite side of the world oops...

It's been like that for hundreds of years. Things are so corrupt over there that there's nothing anyone can do to change it except the people that live there. Dick Cheney said so himself:



and what do you know, 10-15 years later...

It was never in danger of being taken away, refer back to al qaida comment.

 

I do agree with you on the state of our war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Canada was also dragged into this war to help the US, so you're not the only one pissed off about it.

But the decisions made by the state are very different than those made by individuals serving in the military. Most of them join so they can make a difference, and the rest join because they don't really have a choice (i.e. the only respectable income they can get because of forces out of their hands).

So I guess RISKING DEATH for money is just god-awful, right? These men and women go into a war zone so we don't have to. They leave their families behind, mostly wives and young children, so don't they deserve a little compensation to help their families back home?
Individuals in the service are heroes. Period.

 

Since when was defying soldiers our purpose...You're an idiot..