Lying

So, in IRC there was a discussion going about helping others, etc etc etc.

A point came up about lying, and I searched this section to see if a thread had already been started or not. Basically, the root question is this:

In what circumstance is it O.K. to lie, and why?

I'll go ahead and provide two examples for discussion purposes, but feel free to create your own circumstances.

Example A:

Your mother has recently bought a new dress. For the past 6 months, she has been trying to get her shape down so she could look good in the dress for your wedding. She feels she has done really well at losing weight and getting into shape. When she tries on the dress, she doesn't look bad but you think her ass looks too big still. What do you tell her when she asks your opinion? Do you lie and compliment her on a job well done? Or do you tell her the truth about her fat ass?

Example B:

A store clerk has been stealing money from his job. You, a random customer, notice this happening. The store clerk notices that you saw him, and pleads with you saying that he has a newborn baby, and is newly wed to a disabled woman and is just trying to make ends meat. If he didn't steal, he'd lose the baby, and his wife would be stressed and probably wind up in the hospital. A week later, without any prior knowledge of the situation, the store clerk is being prosecuted for theft and you are being called in as a witness to testify against him. When you get to the court room, you notice a woman in a wheelchair, and a newborn baby in her lap. When you are called to the stand, do you tell the truth, or lie to protect this mans family? Why?


Those are the best I could come up with . Please, let's hear honest actions. Don't tell me what so-and-so moral obligation fallacy etc would do... tell me what you would do in those circumstances, and why.

 

I'd say you'll face times when you just have to lie. I don't like telling lies to people close to me but I don't care if I don't know the other person or if I'm struggling my way out of something

 

It's ok to lie to little kids when moments can cause long-term mental trauma to them.

that's about all I can think of.

 

There are situations when you have to lie to protect other people or not to make them worry, for example, sometimes I don't tell my parents where I actually go etc..

 

I do and she just doesn't believe me
Like when I say "mom we're gonna go get really stoned and pick up some ho's."
she thinks it's a joke.

 

Example A:

If my mother was working hard to change her lifestyle I wouldn't say anything. I'd lie and tell her she looks good to boost her confidence. Why risk her losing her self esteem and possibly quit working at losing more weight? This kind if lie hurts no one so it's ok.


Example B:

I wouldn't lie for the clerk. He's a theft. No matter what his intentions are, he's stealing from somebody. He's stealing from the store owner/company owner who for all we know is going through rough financial times too. His company may be going under, etc.


If you lie to avoid hurting someone I believe it's ok.

 

This is a pretty senseless topic because there is no set definition of right and wrong; I could say lying all the time is perfectly peechy. Nothing can really be debated since it's all opinionated to the core.

 

You ignored the final point I made about not giving me the stupid shit that's constantly thrown around Sythe . If you were in one of those two situations, what would you do? I don't care about reality possibly not being real, you can't prove morality, you can't justify actions... all that bullshit is what ruins the sfa section and makes threads boring and repetitive.

Now, please remain on topic and follow the points I posted. I'm not looking for a winnable debate, but rather a conversation that has no right or wrong answers, but can remain intellectual with opinionated beliefs.

So I ask again, what would you do?

If I added something to this and said that when she attended the wedding, she overheard people talking about how horrible she looked in the dress, got really embarrassed and ran out of the wedding then blamed you for not telling her the truth and putting her in a situation that caused her mental stress.... would you change your answer?

That is very true, he is put into a circumstance that cannot be easily corrected. However, do you damn others for his actions? You say that if you lie to avoid hurting someone, it's ok... but what about his disabled wife and newborn child? If he goes to jail, then they could face some serious problems, that may involve hurting them both...

I want to ask now that do you believe you have the right to choose what lies you tell, and what lies people deserve to hear? If you're going to cheat on your girlfriend, and you plan it ahead of time... do you tell her? Does she deserve to hear it, or will you avoid telling her because you believe it would hurt her?

 

Thanks for admitting it! This is as good as a poll and really should have been a general discussion topic.

 

Reported. Stop posting in my thread with your nonsensical idiocy. Clearly you have no ability to to enjoy a philosophical debate. If Sythe and the rest of you morons would stop with the damn "oooh, you can't PROVE anything", then maybe you would be able to sit back and enjoy a conversation instead of parading OTHER people's intelligence and beliefs as your own.

Here's a lesson in life, kid, don't believe everything you read on the internet, and certainly don't take everyone else's word for it . I love how you all jumped on the bandwagon without actually understanding it at all. It's funny how stupid most of you people are ^.^.


E:

Oh.. and-

If you'd notice the description, it says intelligent conversations. IT also says "Argue YOUR views".... Neither of which you have done. I chose the right place for this thread, now get your idiotic dribble out of it.

 

When little kids ask, is santa real? is the easter bunny real? is the toothfairy real, it's okay to tell them they are.

For example A, if I thought her ass looked big I wouldn't tell her because it would be simply rude and not that nice for her self esteem IMO.

For example B, I wouldn't lie in such a serious situation because if they had proof you'd also get fucked on, I'd feel for him and his family but I would have to be selfish in that sense to save my own ass, you can't lie about shit like that it's too serious.

 

With regards to the store clerk situation, it would depend what they were stealing.

 

Under no circumstances unless to protect yourself or someone else from physical harm. If you start making exceptions, females forget how to tell the difference between a good lie and a bad lie

 

I see it ok to lie, whenever i need or want to... everybody lies in todays society and i dont think anyone can deny it.

 

Sometimes you must lie. I would lie in both situations. One to make the Mom feel better and one to save the clerk family.

 

I would lie in both situations, but in cases where there aren't lives lost or having to do so to make a loved one feel better about themselves. But in most cases I would say its better not to lie as you can yourself as a person get twisted up in your own shit and then think it is reality.

 

I'm a social engineer so it's in my blood to tell lies. and in all honesty, it's kind of an addiction. I would never lie to the people I love, but to the people I don't really care about or do not know I would lie directly to their face for my own personal benefit and satisfaction. its the truth and i feel bad about it...but thats just the way i am?

 

The fact that people say they would never lie to people they love is a lie, we try not to lie and its just what you imagine it would be like but it changes in different situations no matter how small it is you would have lied or will lie.

 

I'd lie in the first situation, just out of kindness. However if it was completely terrible and I knew she would embarrass herself, I might try to think of a way to solve the problem without hurting her too much.

Second situation, I wouldn't lie. Lieing in court isn't right under just about any circumstance. Plus, I know very little about the guy, and maybe he's deceiving me or the theft situation is more severe then I think.

 

I am not saying that the following statements are right, but it is what I would do in a similar situation.

I would tell her that she looks amazing. She can tell herself that she still isn't in perfect shape, but she can't compliment herself. She has been working hard to alter her appearance for the past six months, so some recognition wouldn't hurt in this situation.

I would lie. Necessity knows no law. I would tell the judge that I see him as a kind and hard working man, and that I strongly doubt that he would ever steal. If I get the chance, I would speak to him later and explain him that he needs to find a second job/social help.