School Shootings

As some of you may know, mass school shootings are a common event specifically (but not exclusively) happening in the U.S. The consensus behind why this is happening at the current rate is due to deficiency of “mental health”. This in combination with access of guns (most commonly semi-automatic), and a culture that feeds off sensationalizing deaths by guns can only tread downhill with copycats wanting recognition. It is currently reported that there are 22 school shootings in 2018. This means on average there is 1 school shooting per week.

Why do you think this is happening and is there a solution?

 

In most countries guns get banned after the first massacre but gun culture is ingrained in American Culture so cutting ties is a lot more difficult. I don't see any other plausible reason why frequent shootings occur apart from easily accessible firearms.

 

Where are you finding these facts? "Most commonly automatic" in particular. I'm laying in bed on the phone and tried looking it up with no luck but all we hear about in the news/articles is the SEMI-automatic AR15. Automatic weapons are illegal. In this recent Texas shooting it was a shotgun and pistol from what I've read.

Also less than 5% of shootings in the US were done by a shooter with a mental health problem.

In your first sentence you say we're talking about mass school shootings. CNN only required 1 person being shot and included accidental shootings. In a country of 300 million+ that sucks but honestly it's not a lot.

The solution is, as you ironically say, is to stop sensationalizing gun deaths.

 

This dude is right, also most of these school shootings happen in low socio-economic areas and raising the welfare levels for these areas has shown to significantly reduce the number of shootings in them (though the fact that firearms are accessible to students is obviously a far greater reason). Either way, no one should have access to a firearm unless they have a legitimate reason imo.

N.B. I don't live in America so my perspective is skewed against weapons as I live where shootings are rare let alone school shootings. Though a strong argument can be made against the anti-firearm community in America as the political dynamics are different in relation to guns in America than most countries.

 

You’re nitpicking here. I didn’t specify whether the guns were fully or semi automatic, but rather that they were automatic (they are). I hyperlinked the report so you’re able to verify what I’m saying.

The title of the thread is “School Shootings”. I mentioned mass school shootings because of its significant relevance to the U.S.

It seems like you’re justifying these shootings by minimizing dead lives with averages. It should not matter how little is lost when comparing sizes. It is the fact that these incidents are becoming normalized and are trending upwards. There is more to the equation than just sensationalizing deaths by guns.

 

What are you even talking about? There's a big difference between automatic and semi--automatic weapons lol.

Go re-read your OP. Your first 3 sentences are linked together and talking about MASS school shootings. There's a big difference between the two and I'm only pointing out that your article was using sleight of hand to make the problem appear worse than it is. Click their link and read the parameters they used in getting the number 22, then you'll see why it's important to differentiate

Did I justify the shootings anywhere in my post? I agree that there's more to it than just people being over-dramatic but that's a huge factor. Buying a swimming pool should worry you more than sending your child to school with this upward trending gun violence as statistically speaking it's much more likely to kill them.

 

What happens with the existing 300 million+ guns in the country then?

There are some willing to give up their guns, and there are millions telling us that their right to bare arms is among the most important aspects of their lives and they will die defending their right to do so.

 

yeah this is the problem i think ... there no way to resolve it i believe !!!
but a way to start is how i said to stop selling it will be good as a start only...
then they can start asking every body for his weapon and give him some money back .

 

Semi-automatic firearms still constitute as automatic. You're exhausting yourself by nitpicking me not specifying. I did specify, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Here is my concluding statement:

I did not mention mass shootings in this instance as that would be factually incorrect. School mass shootings in the U.S. however are consistent which is why I noted that. The 1 shooting per week is to put into perspective how often this is occurring. It's not to be taken literally.

It may be unintentional, but I did say it "seems" like you're justifying the cause with the end result not having a significant impact when you juxtapose numbers.

 

1: Semi-automatic guns all largely operate the same way. Automatic weapons, which are often described as machine guns, are different, in that squeezing the trigger once fires cartridges repeatedly until the shooter releases it. While semi-automatic rifles are widely available, fully automatic weapons are not.

2: I didn't say that you mentioned mass shootings in that instance. I said you mentioned it in the first three statements and that is misleading/the same thing that your article is doing. While factually correct under scrutiny, it intentionally gives a different message to the reader (and I fully believe you fell for the trick before this was pointed out to you, so I don't understand your reluctance to accept it).

3: Nowhere did I give a reason or excuse on the shooters' behalf.

I will not be responding to anymore posts from you until you can put something serious together because this is borderline spam at this point. You're trying to win a debate by claiming the moral high ground while saying absolutely nothing, which is not what the SFA section is about. We haven't even been able to get into other proposed solutions yet because you're holding on for dear life to your OP when you're just wrong about the difference between automatic/semi-automatic weapons.

Your report says the same thing I'm saying. Semi-automatic weapon. It also doesn't say that semi-automatic weapons fall under the category of automatic weapons. So again what the fuck are you talking about lol

 

Semi-automatic/fully automatic firearms fall under automatic since they both have automated qualities. You don't have to educate me on something I already know. I should have specified from the start to avoid this meaningless discussion. The emphasis of this thread as well as its purpose revolves around the question I left.

It's only misleading if you don't read everything I've typed. The message it gives to the reader is that "school shootings are a consistent event", which is factually true when you average the shootings. Let's put more emphasis on "school". Under no circumstance should "school" shootings be consistent. It should be ones safe haven, second to home.

I didn't say you did on the shooters' behalf. You insinuated the lives lost where not that big of a deal when you contrasted numbers of the current living in the U.S. How would one take "honestly it's not a lot"? You're justifying something here when you say that.

You're free to do as you please. You shifted the argument to nitpicking instead of giving a substantiated answer to the question I left. I'm simply responding to you.

 

Okay. Can you link me something to back this up? You keep saying the same thing over and over but producing nothing to back it up. I've tried researching it to see if you're right. Everything I've found differentiates the two and does not list semi-automatic as a sub-category of automatic weapons... because you need to squeeze the trigger on every shot and nothing about that is automatic.

Also as I said I'd love to get onto the central question of your post. But until we figure out who we're talking to (someone who knows what they're talking about or someone who doesn't) this "nit-picking" (what this forum section is about) is necessary.

No one disagrees that school shootings are a bad thing. I disagree with 1: the severity of the problem and 2: the implied causes of the problem in your OP.

One can say something is not a big deal without justifying it. You linked the definition of justify to be a smartass and nothing I said fits those parameters. Again no one disagrees that school shootings are a problem, but we disagree about the severity of the problem because if you care about child deaths, swimming pools should be of much more concern to you.

Again, gotta get through the bullshit to get to the substance of the discussion.

 

What you call nitpicking I call addressing factual inaccuracies. That what this forum section is for. If you don't like it, go post in off-topic.

 

You want me to link something that backs up "semi-AUTOMATIC" weaponry falling under automated firearms? There is a difference between the two which is why you'll see "fully and semi" being the former subsequent to automatic. I didn't specify which initially, so you're really nitpicking here. Don't be ridiculous and petty. Your entire focus is on this when it shouldn't be. If you're arguing that there is a difference, then drop it because I've acknowledged that from the start. I've been following gun related stories for years. I'm pretty sure this difference is covered and acknowledged on many different types of media for every individual shooting/mass shooting.

You're shifting the argument. What you're arguing doesn't need to be an argument. Which is why I said you're nitpicking.

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who do agree with it, otherwise it wouldn't be happening on a consistent basis. Implied cause? Please expand on that.

If I say death by intoxication isn't a big deal because it only applies to 7% of deaths worldwide (example), I'm justifying it not being a big deal because it's not that many in the bigger picture. This is what you have insinuated here.

 

That's the un-diagnosed statistic. The people who commit these shootings are too fucked up in the head to even think about mental health. Also considering the fact their parents gave them a terrible upbringing, I doubt it would be diagnosed anyway. I personally believe every person to shoot up a school has a mental health disorder - what else would destroy your mind to think that it is a good idea to do so?

Anyways, there's much more to it than just removing guns. America has guns and America has always had guns. Stricter background checks is a good place to start instead of abolishing all weapons. It's pretty sad that upon purchasing Sudafed in this country your name gets put into a database that your purchased it BUT that doesn't happen within firearm purchases.

In my opinion, something to compare it to would be the abortion process. I'm not going to explain further, as we can either assume here or you can read up on it yourself, but it's not a one or two-step process like buying a gun is. Why is it that purchasing Sudafed requires your name and drivers license to be put into a database but not purchasing a gun? Why is it significantly harder to receive an abortion than purchase a firearm in America?

I'm all for the Second Amendment, but it needs to be regulated now unfortunately. I'm 19, live with my father, and he owns well over 10 guns in a safe. I know how to treat a gun properly and anything to do with safety in a gun (my dad has used firearms for 30+ years and my brother is in the military). I don't know the passcode to his safe, and he'll probably never give it to me. That's not because he doesn't trust me, it's because their his guns. The shooter in Texas had accesss to his fathers guns. That's not how it should be. The only thing for self-defense I have at college/in my room is a knife.

I'm busy rn so I can't expand more but if any of you respond I'd like to elaborate soon.

 

Okay lets give this another shot now that I actually have the time to t ype out a full post

When we categorize weapons as automatic, semi-automatic, or otherwise, we do it based on their firing capabilities. The key word in semi-automatic is SEMI, not the automatic which you cutely capitalized and colored for us. The two are different you're correct, and you did say that the two are different, I congratulate you on that, but saying that a semi-automatic falls under the term "Automatic weapons" is just wrong. Automatic weapons are banned in the US. If a semi-automatic weapon fell under the category of automatic weapon it would be banned as well (provided it was made and owned after 1986). It's an important distinction. We categorize weapons based on their firing capabilities. Pulling a trigger once to shoot once is not an automatic weapon.

Why is it an important distinction? Because in your OP you listed potential causes, one of which was the accessibility of weapons "most commonly automatic." I see that you've edited the OP now, good job. I agree that it's irrelevant now, but your unwillingness to just say "I was wrong, fixed my original post" and clinging on for dear life for the past like 3 posts is still hilarious to me.

But anyways, okay. We can finally move past that now!

You got me there bud! Let me correct my statement. 99.9% of people recognize school shootings as a bad thing. I'm glad we found time to correct that amongst all my nitpicking.

This is a horrible comparison. Intoxication according to you accounts for 7% of deaths worldwide, school shootings account for LESS THAN 100 DEATHS SINCE 2015 IN THE US (Source List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia And since you seem like the kinda guy to question the wikipedia source without providing one of your own we'll double that number to 200). School shootings are a bad thing, but they're honestly not deserving of all the media attention they're getting.

Anyways now that we're done with that (FINGERS CROSSED) we can speculate about what needs to happento help decrease the amount of gun violence in general in our country. I'm all for background checks being as intrusive as possible. As I mentioned in an earlier post an all-out ban on guns is not practical and neither is a mandatory buyback program, for reasons also mentioned above. All we can do, in my opinion, is make background checks stricter and perhaps require training for one to own a firearm, similar to the training required for airplane pilots. Laws requiring the safe storage of firearms would be great too, to be sure that they're only being handled by their rightful owners and allow us to hold those that treat their weapons carelessly and, for example, let them fall into the hands of a mass shooter, responsible.

It is the un-diagnosed statistic yes. It's also the statistic for all gun violence in the US, not just mass shooters. It's the best data I could find so I made sure to specify in the post, but I apologize if I didn't make that too clear as I was in a rush too. I'm unsure whether or not they diagnose people after-the-fact too, because as you said the number's likely slightly off for reasons you've provided.

"What else would destroy your mind to think that it is a good idea to do so?"

Religious extremism, racism. I'm hesitant to attribute mental illness to people without proof as media coverage of mass shootings as it's been shown to heighten negative attitudes towards people with serious mental illness. I can't find the study I was looking at last night that mentioned that, but here's a shorter one Effects of news media messages about mass shootings on attitudes toward persons with serious mental illness and public support for gun control poli... - PubMed - NCBI

 

99.9%? Proof of this statistic?

I started the sentence with "If I say" and highlighted it being an example. That number is something I threw for the sake of argument; a hypothetical scenario. I'm not sure if you went to college, but providing Wikipedia as your source in an argument will not make you sound more credible.

School shootings are deserving of the media attention because of the setting and because you're dealing with children. Under no circumstance should the attention be diverted.

Making background checks stricter wouldn't have stopped the latest school shooting. It's a step in the right direction, but it can only help so much. The best way to go about this is holding parents accountable for the decisions their child makes. Not all decisions, but critical ones that involve massacring children/adults. Safe storage of firearms doesn't sound so safe.

 

I'm not American but I believe there is a law in most states where parents are held liable if guns aren't stored safely. Holding parents liable for things they couldn't control just sounds wrong. As people who work full time, you can't be expected to micro-manage your kids life. The best you can do is instill good teachings and try to be involved in their life but that really doesn't prevent them going awol because thats not how mental illness works.

I think something cool to do is have trained arms carrying security officers on site at schools.

 

What indication do we have that one is in favor of school shootings besides people shooting up schools themselves or openly supporting a school shooting. This is not a polled statistic but rather my estimation. If you would like to dispute my guess then feel free, I'm open to learn. However, currently I know of less than 22 people in 2018 who are in favor of school shootings out of 300,000,000 Americans.

It doesn't matter whether it's a hypothetical scenario or not, it's a disingenuous comparison. 7% and 100/300,000,000+ to 200/300,000,000+ are not comparable. A cause that accounts for 7% of avoidable deaths worldwide is a huge deal and we would much rather be focusing our attention there.

Lol
"And since you seem like the kinda guy to question the wikipedia source without providing one of your own we'll double that number to 200"

I'm open to other numbers if you wish to provide a better source, but complaining about my source that I've already implied is likely wrong and offered to double the number is dumb.

Under no circumstance? That's a little over-dramatic, but I'm not here to debate your feelings so you feel free to focus all the attention you want on the 1/1.5 million chance that a particular child will die at school in the next 6 months.

1: Holding parents accountable for things like that makes absolutely no sense. It's been proven that a psychopath is BORN a psychopath. Just a shitty roll of the dice. You'd be holding parents accountable for something that's completely out of their control (provided that their only crime is being the parent of a child that commits the crime). Surely you must have a better proposal than hoping that a child with murderous intent and seemingly nothing to lose decides not to shoot up a school for fear that his parents will be held accountable for his actions.
2: How does safe storage of firearms now sound safe? I'm referring to parents locking their guns up where their children cannot get to them. It's already law in some states and I believe there are only benefits to making it federal law.

 

Instead of trying to eliminate the issue of mass shootings how about REDUCE the chances of it happening. Because completely eliminating this problem is never going to happen. Especially with the media glorifying it.

Stricter gun control or work towards removing the right to own/purchase a gun. Even then you can't eliminate every gun in America, but it's a step in the right direction to reduce the amount of guns in America. In this world there will always be good and bad people.. it's just how life works. Also ya'll need to stop arguing over semi/automatic guns.. such a pointless argument. A gun is a gun.