Is it okay for parents to hit their children?

Edit: Read the fucking thread before posting please. Odds are that whatever you were planning on saying has already been said twice so please try to build on what is being said, not just post half-assed anecdotal evidence.









It was getting off topic on the other thread. Here's where it left off:

 

You had same very good points, but still i believe physical discipline is very affective and HEALTHY for a child when they are young, after they are mentally developed where they are able to understand logical speech, then that's the point where physical means of discipline won't work anymore.

 

My parents beat the shit out of me for any little thing. I look over to my peers and see kids all fucked up and so young cause they dominate their parents lol. I'm not saying I'm a great kid but THOSE KIDS ARE A LOST CAUSE. I'm 17 and I know some girls who are like 14 taking xannies and smoking weed everyday lmfao. They're a lost cause. I'm not saying all kids are like that but MOST in California are.

 

Of course. It's another form of discipline, particularly used in early stages of life to condition children by associating bad deeds with pain. Just like how you would pinch a baby marmoset when it bites you. If you don't train it not to bite you, it will continue to do so into adulthood, and by then it's pretty much impossible to get it not to bite you. The same logic applies to humans. There are other variables that play a part in this such as environment and mental health. Though I'd say my parents hitting me as a child has molded me into a person with good character.

 

I posted my reply on the other thread.

However, I was spanked for being naughty as a child. My mother would only have to look at me in a particular way in public and I knew I was fucked. And would immediately behave myself. That sort of respect cannot be earned through positive reinforcement.

If criminals were positively reinforced when they committed a crime the world would be a joke. There has to be punishment, and punishment in the form of a smack to the backside or hand isn't child abuse. It's a spanking.

Majority of kids these days have no idea what respect for their parents or elders is.

 

You believing something and it being true are totally different things. I can believe global warming doesn't exist all I want, it's still happening, and it's still gonna suck when we pass the 2 degree threshold.

There are four basic forms of punishment for a child:
Physical punishment: Hitting
Verbal punishment: Calling them an idiot
Withholding Rewards: You can't watch TV, etc.
Penalties: You have to pay for breaking that.

Research has deemed to first two ineffective.

Little excerpt from a study regarding punishment:
It is important to look at the way parents administer physical punishments.

A swat on the bottom is a mild physical punishment. While it may do no permanent physical harm, it does not help the child develop a conscience. Instead, it teaches him that physical violence is an acceptable way of dealing with problems. Parents should avoid physical punishment. If they find themselves using it, then something is wrong and their method of discipline is not working. They may as well admit that spanking is more effective in relieving the parents' frustration than in teaching the child self-control. More effective methods are needed.

Harsh physical punishment and verbal abuse can never be justified as ways to discipline children. Parents usually spank when they are angry; a parent may not realize how hard he is striking the child. Verbal abuse hurts the child's self concept.

Comparing an individual that is actively thinking, has a conscience, moral compass, all that to a baby marmoset is kind of a stretch. A marmoset is not at the thinking capacity at a human and just associates the pain with what it did so it avoids it. There's also the other part that continue aggression shown towards animals will make them mean.

Actually, the longer you're in jail the high the recidivism rate is. Long-term incarceration is quite ineffective. Hmm, lets throw an individual for an exorbitant amount of time for a petty crime, have very little support programs if the individual is an addict, proceed to let said individual out of prison with $20, unable to get a job, little social net, and no family. Hmm, well what should I do now? (Lets not forget the abuses that can come with prison whether physical (beatings by guards/inmates) and emotional (solitary confinement).

Punishment may be needed to an extent, but using the horrific institution that is our prison system is a bad comparison.

Unless you're using some statistics, making wide generalizations like "majority of kids these days" holds no basis and just comes off as someone complaining about how they perceive the generation(s) below them. It's like my baby boomer parents complaining about the millennials and then I mention how they (as a generation) acquired more wealth then any other time period in the world, literally fucked the world economy, have continued to ignore to global warming, and in at least the U.S. have continued to have dated and ineffective policies such as that as mass incarceration and the drug war.

Respect for your elders is a stupid concept. I attempt to respect everyone equally, but respecting someone because they're old is utterly pointless. Congrats, you've lived longer then me, you can still be a total asshole.

 

The only area I really approve of hitting is on the butt. I dont see what hitting really does to a child only to make them dislike there parent (to a point). I agree with Tmoe -

 

This is basically the whole of it.

Stop trying to apply broad generalizations based on some misguided parents. You probably have no fucking clue whether or not said children were hit but even if they weren't, who cares. There are multiple ways of being a bad parent. You can be too lenient with your children but most children who grow up without consequences will, for the most part, self correct over time. Something that is harder to self correct, however, is the mental damage caused by living in an abusive household.

And don't you even dare relate prisoners to hitting children. For one children are minors and, as such, should not be treated the same way as adults who break the law. Secondly, we don't hit our prisoners. We lock up our prisoners and we make them do some shitty things, but (usually) no abuse by the prison staff is involved.

Like I have stated before, I don't care if you were hit as a child and you think you turned out to be some tough and respectful teenager. Statistically you are more likely to be a more physically violent adult (among other things) and exponentially more likely to hit your children.

Solve problems like an adult, not like a shit flinging monkey person.

No they aren't.

 

Well I think you've taken my comment a little further than it's intention. I was more referring to the fact that you're less likely to commit a crime due to consequences, as opposed to a positively reinforced system where you would be more likely to commit the crime as the consequences are less severe.

However, back to the topic. I'll reply from your other thread here.

Okay I'll give you the anecdotal points. I'm just struggling to grasp the action of a tap on the hand with any long term effects.

For example, ( hopefully not incriminating ) My eldest is currently going through the "terrible two's" stage. Now tantrums are clear in just about every disagreement or not getting his own way situation. The action we take for this is to immediately remove fun from the situation. Whether it be a time-out on the naughty step, or to bed for 10 minutes or so. The fact we remove fun from the situation does to trick. However, our youngest being 10 months, he has hit her on a few occasions or at least acted sly in the event of causing her distress. To that we've been more severe with the punishment, as it's a more serious incident we do not want repeated. So that would cause for a tap on the hand. Which, does the trick. It may be painting over other problems like you say, however.. The eye for an eye approach is a good thing when it comes to providing pain and receiving pain for a particular action, as that is pretty much what you will expect in any stage of your life.

 

I guess you skipped over the part where I said it's another form of discipline. As a child, the thing you hate the most is getting hit, so you try to avoid it by all means, i.e., not doing bad deeds. Why do you think asian countries have the highest rankings in education? Because this form of discipline is used and encouraged. There is also the other part where such discipline is used when kids are doing bad things, not for the hell of it.

 

Situations with very small children are especially tricky when you're looking at what actually fixes the problem. Usually when children get to a certain age they learn from each other that it isn't a good idea to fight. This behavior is seen in animals as well, where a kitten plays too roughly and, because of it, is denied playtime from the mother or siblings. You are an authority figure to your children and they should come to you for restitution, not vengeance. If you are the arbiter of pain then you will be seen as an executioner. It sounds like a very exaggerated nonsense but it's the only way to be clear about it.

Basically your children are going to have 2 options for the rest of their lives when it comes to physical encounters, they can either fight each other, or one will be hit and will then go to an authority figure to chastise the offender. As soon as your children know that there are always going to be consequences to fighting, they will stay away from it entirely. Your children should not, however, learn an eye for an eye from you. You should always be clear with the cliche 'two wrongs don't make a right' shit but, to do that, you need to follow it yourself.

I have noticed that now there is (or has always been) this macho, overly aggressive, alpha attitude that responds to any sort of annoyance or disrespect towards them with violent intimidation. I can only imagine this is the product of not being taught the value in peaceful indignance, especially when it seems to be more common in the lower class, less educated population. I'm not saying if someone is going to hit you just take it to the face, but I am saying that when someone bitches you out on the street don't threaten him, especially not in front of your children.

 

And actually the thing children hate the most is the feeling of disappointment from their parents. The kind without anger is the most behavior changing by far. Pain is in temporary and the best kind of punishment is one that will follow a child for longer than an hour.

 

You're being over critical about this. Also, asian countries that encourage such behavior are at the top of the education rankings. What's this again about it being more common in a less educated populations?

 

There is also a stereotype about how insensitive asian parents can be. My point is that the physical aspect of punishment is completely unnecessary and is outdated. You can be a successful, strong willed parent without ever hitting your child and, in doing so, you will be respected more.

 

The feeling of pain is not temporary. Say you burn your finger, are you not going to remember to be more careful so you don't inflict that pain upon yourself again? The same ideology applies to kids getting hit by their parents.

I can tell you haven't been around many kids to actually know how disobedient they can be. How do you gain the respect of a child?

 

A burn is a significantly different wound than a bruise or a red bottom. The only lasting effect is the resentment or fear that comes with it. Neither are constructive nor healthy.

I worked in a school district in a middle class county of southern california in preschool daycare up to 3rd grade including special education. I currently tutor children on my off hours as well. My duties included ensuring that the students stayed on task and payed attention.

You gain the respect of a child by being a friend and a mentor. How often does your friend slap you when you do something wrong? This is not to say, however, that you can't forcibly make a child respect you with discipline. The difference between the two is that one is healthy and builds a strong and trusting relationship.

 

I am not too sure where your answer came from relating to my point. I was actually expecting an answer that would inform me of the correct way to handle the situation.

I really think you're taking what I say to a literal extreme. We are talking about a tap on the hand here. I'm not promoting street justice.

Also, I think not approaching an eye-for-an-eye when it comes to fighting, and run to the authority will lead to bullying. Personally, I was raised to hit back if hit. It's served me well these many years.

 

How are you going to correct anything with a tap on the hand?

 

The tap on the hand is like you say, a painful interaction for a child. Or somewhat painful. This isn't common to him and obviously, like most children doesn't like it. So a way of teaching, you hit and this is what it feels like to be hit approach. He doesn't like it, so shouldn't do it to others.

There's not much choice for a verbal lesson in this as communication is still not clear enough for understanding.

 

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