I Propose Re-Organizing the Forums

While conducting a bit of market research, I noticed that a lot of successful forums use interesting tactics for increasing their productivity as well as their potential for new users to remain on the page. Some of the things I've observed are listed below, but one of the key things I've noted is a consistent, simplistic design. I'm not suggesting a full re-design of Sythe, as the design is simplistic as is, but perhaps a change of background, a new conceptualization of its current out of character theme, or something to that effect should be considered.

The things I've noticed successful forums doing:

• Forum information, Community Discussion, and other such information is generally positioned at the bottom. New users rarely care about the community, and would rather engage in the theme's primary topic first.
• The highest thread to post ratio forums are poised at the top to attract more users. Placement of a promotional forum during promotions at the top will often increase the promotion by originally placing the highest performing forum first. Frequent visitors will notice the change and investigate.
• Wording is everything, so the use of words like 'General' can actually decrease activity in the specific forum. Use less ambiguous words (IE Programming Discussion rather than Programming General).
• Frequently update the order to accommodate to a changing market. If the majority of your ratio lies in forum in fifth place with a declining ratio in 2nd place, allow a re-order based on current ratios.

I believe these will increase the productivity of Sythe, at least for the visitors that still come here. I understand it's out of the conventional wisdom of this place that things like this rarely change, but the research I've done is highly suggestive that it could potentially show promising results. I would recommend further investigation, but you'll find that it is so.

Additionally, I would recommend further advertising of the forums, and a theme'd look. Since the changing of the sub-title to 'The Craigslist of virtual goods' there has been a steady decline in the traffic to Sythe.org. While it does not directly correlate, many other significant changes have resulted in a lowered activity. Granted, a majority of the original market has grown up and quit, but that does not mean you do not have a suitable, promotable product that with enough repair could last a lot longer.

If you remain stagnant, at the current rate, while I do not have exact numbers, you will see a significant drop in relevant traffic within the next 3 years. Given that the site has been up for 7 years, and went well for the first 5, you now have a strong need to update and put a foothold in a new market. Social integration and such is imperative as competition at this point would surely destroy you.

 

I've read this (at least the idea) before or am I going crazy?

 

On smaller concepts it has been suggested and rejected. The re-designs have been proposed for quite a while, including the Market. But there's never been evidence to suggest why pointed out before. People have merely stated utility, utility, utility, but never understood. Now I'm pointing it out, and how it can rationally be done to benefit the forum.

 

No Support. The only section of the forum that I feel needs re-organization is the market section. Which SuF has already created a thread for these suggestions (voting period now) here: http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1465235

 

While your feelings are noted, I feel they are far from market research that shows enhanced productivity.

Lets take for a moment to think that you re-organize the market forums, which are indeed a mess, you still encounter the issue that first time visitors are always discombobulated and confused. They must find their way to find what they are looking for, and most are not looking for news or community discussion. Based on the ratio aspect, the highest performing forum is by far the Runescape Markets. These should be hoisted at the top, like a flying banner for new comers to see and for returning visitors to have easy access.

The community stuff is important, but should not reign over any of the niche, and can safely be put at the very bottom for those who are interested (which is NEVER a brand new visitor's interest).

Additionally, there have been many additions, removals, and changes in the sections of Sythe. It is a mess, and cleaning it all up would be necessary for the site to thrive.

 

While the idea might attract more users, I fear that those users might be the kind that should be avoided (going straight for the market section, disregarding all the rules etc.).

I do however feel that some of the Community threads would be better off below the market sections.

 

The market section is the kind of users this forum needs. The disregarding of the rules is indeed an issue, but it is handled by the moderators. You'll always have a rebellious type of user that can generate a problem. However, with an active moderation team that problem becomes mute.

The organization of the forums needs to trump the fear of new users this community has generated over the years. We're like old bar patrons that drive out new customers because we're buds with the current owners. It's not helping the bottom line, and any forum is better than no forum at all (which is what will happen when Sythe's negatives far exceed his interest).

 

I completely understand your point. But, we can not just put the most active forums at the top and the dead ones at the bottom. This may make the active ones a little easier to find, but we will take attention off the forums that need attention. By putting the popular forums at the top, we are not spreading sythe out appropriatly. What will end up happening is the first 3 forums (3 most popular) will stay popular and the less active forums will become even more less active due to their lonelyness at the bottom of the page. The reason we have the popular forums spread out is to make sure that traffic to all forums is as even as possible. Yes, the runescape market will always be more popular than other forums, but by focusing on solely the runescape market you are setting yourself up for failure in the other forums. It is important to keep as many forums active as you can so that all sythe users are represented equally. For example, one who came to sythe to sell Diablo accounts would not be happy that he is not selling any accounts because the Diablo section is in the shadow of the Runescape one. But, by equally distributing the popular sections, and putting the Diablo section somewhere mixed in, you ensure that the Diablo section will get at least some traffic from users who pass by. How often do u click a thread title that interests you while you are scrolling down the sythe homepage without looking at the section. I sure do this a lot. So by putting all the sections spread apart you ensure that all sections will get as much traffic as possible.

Thanks,
Anet390

 

That is a point for return visitors, not for new visitors. Popularity is important when you're in a niche market, which Sythe is. By promoting all forums, you actually hurt all forums because you reduce the amount of new users.

Think of it while reading my whimsical example:

Let's say you are walking and you notice a series of billboards. You'll pick out the billboard that has the most gleaming, interesting piece to you and notice it the most while ignoring the rest. If you are walking and there's a single glowing billboard that catches your interest, but then utilizes additional space to promote other things, your eyes will then travel further around those things as that billboard has caught your eye.

You actually pointed this out that you'll scroll until you catch the thread that interests you the most. Well, new users to Sythe are most interested in the RS forums. They'll join, maybe post a new thread or a reply, and while waiting... what do they do? They scroll down to the front page, confident they can find what they originally came for with ease once again.

You have an average of 10 seconds to keep a new user from leaving a page. Studies show that the longer a user stays on the page, their chances of closing the pages decline: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/page-abandonment-time.html

We get the new users to see the RS forum first and foremost, and the other forums follow. You don't need to worry about the less active forums gaining in activity, as they will promote themselves once new users flock in. You'd be surprised at how effective it is to market one thing and sell something completely unrelated. The average user doesn't realize when s/he is being sidetracked.

 

1. The advertisments on sythe are almost always RS related. This lets a user know that the forum is related to RS
2. It takes less than 10 seconds to scroll down to the Market Section
3. Users will know this is a market site by our motto "The Craigslist of Virtual Goods"
4. If a user decides to make an account, they have already spotted the section they are interested in and therefor know where its position is.
5. Your billboard example makes very little sense. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of factors that let new users know that we have RS trading (refer to 1,2,and 3)
6. Most need users get to sythe by Googling "Runescape gold market" or "Runescape market forum" or something along those lines, therefor they already know we have a market due to the fact that they found us on the search results
7. A hanful of new users are referred by friends. Obviously the friend explained to them that this forum has something that they would be interested in. This means that people will be signing up for the forums with prior knowledge of there being a market section
8. You assumed all users join sythe for the runescape markets. This is extremely untrue. There are a large sum of users on Sythe that either quit RS, never played RS, or play but not trade. These users deserve equal representation of their forum of choice.
9. News, Suggestions, Disputes, etc will always be first. When you go to MSN or Yahoo or AOL, the first thing you see on the site are headlines from the news or changes that the site has made. Obviously the priority is our active users and not our innactive users. The active users would take interest in these sections, where as many inactive users would not. But who cares if they don't, they are inavtive, and they can suffer by scrolling 1 scroll wheels length to get to the Market Section



Thanks,
Anet390/Andrew

 

A majority of browsers have adblocks enabled. While they may see the advertisements, an even larger number are immune to above the fold advertisements on websites. Google has done significant studies to show that while they can provide great revenue, the average user does not even see them.

If you don't see what you want right away, you'll ignore the rest. Not to mention, you're thinking in prospects of someone that knows the forum. For a new user, they may read the first 3-4 forum titles and then leave. By making them scroll you are killing the turnover rate.

That can mean a wide variety of things. Perhaps someone is looking for an Amazon Giftcard for cheap... there are much better organized sites than this that will quickly show you what you want. Sythe fails at this as it promotes ambiguity in both its name and sub-title. That is not the motto, by the way. It has never been effectively established, and it was a poor choice made by Sythe while re-designing the logo. He even challenged people to come up with something else, and then ignored a majority of the suggestions.

It's not about those that have already made an account. It is about those who have NOT made an account yet that need to be converted. Doing so requires an attentiveness to the average need of the new user based on niche marketing and current promotions.

It makes perfect sense. Your lack of ability to understand it is not a concern of mine as your opinion is not researched or backed. I'm not even stating my own opinion, I'm merely pointing out what many studies show as well as what the most popular forums are doing.

Just because I Google'd "Porn" and clicked the first result does not mean I can easily find what I'm looking for. The thing to look at is where most of the new users are coming from and what we can do to promote the longevity of their visit.

The friend referral is actually ineffective. While it can sometimes work out, a majority of people who are told to visit a website will check it out simply so they fulfill a social obligation. Very few will remain active, and even less will post frequently. The most effective means of retaining new users is through promotions from the site itself through Google, Articles, and other avenues of advertising.

Word of mouth is only effective if the target is seen as a good potential for conversion.

I never said all, I said most. The ratio doesn't lie, and the majority rules. If we can convert more people to the niche, the chances of the other forums' activity rising increases as we have more new users. And no, they do not deserve equal representation of their forum of choice. All forums are not created equal, and you have no 'rights' for a forum. What is best for the forum is best for everyone, as promoting all forums thins the site and causes everyone to lose.

The best bet is to pick the niche, promote it, and benefit from the fact that people that visit may have other interests they pick up while visiting.

You just compared a forum to... news sites. There are different marketing techniques for different types of sites. Those sites have to announce their news at the top because they have stock, they provide a service, and if they didn't their business would be destroyed. That is not true for Sythe, as the news is already at the top of every forum, and does not need to be listed at the top of the categories.

And our priority should not be the active users, or the inactive users, it should be making all users active. The community section does not promote new activity, or continuous activity. It promotes stagnant conversation that sometimes doesn't change for days at a time. Hardly a good first impression.

Your last reply was quite lengthy, and out of respect for you I decided to answer each of your points with an educated response. If you have any respect, you will shorten the length of your next reply so that I will not have to spend 20 minutes writing to correct your ill-informed points.

 

Shortened due to ruquest (I added numbers to ur quoted post to make following the discussion easier for others.

#1 - Ok, so some people see the ads. Some is better than nothing

#2 - Not true. Most internet users know that almost ALL forums and sites related have News, Suggestions, etc first and will scroll down to see the "juice" of the forum.

#3 - Maybe some misunderstand the title. When combining 1,2,3 you have quite a large number of users that realize that we have an RS market here.

#4 - 1,2,3 are examples of methods we use to get new users. Each may only attract some new users, but all 3 combined makes a pretty decent amount of traffic.

#5 - Well, when you google porn "PornHub" shows up first most of the time. PornHub contains porn. So you got what you searched for. If you wanted to find cow porn, one would not just google "Porn" in hopes of finding Cow Porn. One would google "Cow Porn". Therefor by googling Porn you are getting what you "searched for" maybe not what u wanted to find, but it is what you searched for.

#6 You yourself said "It can sometimes work out" well this means that there is SOME traffic from referrals. And once again this can be added to 1,2, and 3 to show all the methods we have of attracting new users.

#7 Ok, well MOST users may come here for RS. MOST of those users appearently know where the RS section is if you can correctly assume that they are on Sythe for RS. Also, Like I said, there are still a lot of non-rs members. They are members too. Just as we are. Their sections deserve at least some attention.

#7.5 As for your niche example, this is what 1,2,3,6 do.

#8 I compared the forum to popular internet sites. Users will understand that news comes first (like these popular sites) and will scroll down further (Refer to #2)

#9 While trying to get new users, it is very important to keep the active ones as well. There are more active users online per day than new users register, therefor if active users want to see News, they shall.

#10 ya, I tried to make this short, but it turned out long. My apologies. Don't feel obligated to reply to every statement I posted.

 

You are incorrect in your assumptions of how new traffic is not only generated but remains consistent. Marketing is a fine science, I do not claim to know all of the marketing strategies, but I have researched them thoroughly. This concept promotes a lot of the strategies successful marketers use.

// Shortened extensively. Everyone gets one incredibly long reply, you've had yours.

 

Lol. If i type for more than 2 mins ima delete the post and restart. As for marketing, there are much better method than this. Especially because most popular forums and sites on the web (including the RS forum) abide by the rule of News, Suggestions, etc. first. It just seems weird going into a forum and seeing ONE SPECIFIC SECTION first. I don't think moving the market forum up a scroll wheels length will affect the site traffic very much, if any at all. I do agree that Sythe needs a way to attract more users, but there are much better ways that don't require making other forums inactive nor do they require the changing of the "normal" forum layout.

Thanks,
Anet390/Andrew

 

http://www.warriorforum.com/

^ The most popular forum based website on the internet. Look at their layout. Look at their users. Look at the ratio of the different forums. Tell me, is it effective, and does it make sense?

The most successful board on their site is the very top one with 44.02% of the total threads and 32.62% of the total posts (out of 24 forums). The average of Threads/Posts per forum equating to 4.16%/4.16% (interestingly enough).

 

This is an isolated example. Yes there will always be some popular forums that will not have News first. But the thing is. We are not Warrior Forum, we are Sythe.org, we shall do as we please. Also, I'm pretty sure Internet Marketing has a much wider audience than Runescape Gold Trading. Also, it really isn't the layout of Warrior Forum that brings them users, especially because they have a MOTTO that say "Internet Marketing". I rest my case. I am going to watch a movie. I like the idea of increasing members, but this method is not the right approach. I have provided many reasons (HUGE POSTS FULL) why I feel another approach would be better so please do not claim that I am making assumptions without reasoning. And remember, we all have different opinions. So GL with your suggestion. I just personally don't think it is a good one.

Thanks,
Anet390/Andrew

 

Your personal opinion isn't rejected, I haven't stated that, it's merely incorrect. I provided you with one example, but their are countless examples, and having been in the web development field for 5 years and studying marketing strategies for 3 years, I've got a fair understanding of the concept of what increases leads.

Yes, it is a marketing forum and so it's more popular, I'm not talking about that. Look at the ratio of threads to posts for the higher up forums, it is higher than most on Sythe, as well as their overall thread/post ratio. These numbers don't depend on a high user activity, but rely solely on a better organization.

Sythe needs to employ better organization and thereby promote the forums that serve best. This increases traffic which then increases the potential for other forums to prosper.

 

Well said. SuF/Grave's idea should set some of your plans in motion. However, perhaps you should post your presumed layout or even base it off Graves. PM me links to other market sites who have what you consider the prime format as well. Thanks!

 

Will do. I can't promise that they'll be market sites, but I'll get a reasonable amount of sites together to make a solid point and outline a general format. .

 

I still feel that Sythe is a socially controlled forum. News is something that is important to this forum. I feel like it should be first.

@Nick - I have seen about 10 suggestions all saying the same thing. I think we should leave forum format discussion to SuF's post for now. His is an OFFICIAL post. I feel like all these other suggestions that are just based on SuF's should be PM'ed to him or posted on his thread....


EDIT: Also, for those active users that are too lazy to scroll down a few pixels and want a millisecond faster access to the Runescape Market can collapse the community threads by clicking the arrow here:


EDIT #2: Also, go to the homepage really quick and litterally see how far from the top the Runescape Market is. Literally the slightest scroll down will reveal its presence. Also, when you first click the sythe homepage, you kind of HAVE to scroll down anyway, because the only visable threads are the Rules and Donation redirect links, which are NOT moving. So new user will most likely see the RS Marketplace. (Please actually go to the homepage and see for yourself)