[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

I want to clarify that I am not targeting anyone with this suggestion. In fact, I am currently offering this service myself. However, after much consideration, I can see the potential long-term effects it can cause on the market, and I believe that it is in everyone's best interest to discuss this issue openly and transparently. By doing so, we can work together to create a more sustainable and fair marketplace for all.

As you may be aware, trading discords are banned on Sythe, and any platform on Discord that facilitates peer-to-peer trading that would be considered competition to Sythe is not allowed. Users are not allowed to have open market channels on their servers.

[APPROVED]Forbid advertising direct competition to sythe
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"Community Name Sales" are essentially open market channels on Discord. It allows anyone to list their name for sale with the help of a name seller. The name seller is the owner of the server and has the ability to approve or deny listings.

These listings may be seen as a loophole to the ban on trading discords. While the listings are not technically on a trading discord, they still create a platform for open market trading outside of Sythe's control. This can limit the ability of other namesellers to buy names and to support their shops, as well as create a less dynamic marketplace.

Furthermore, this practice can enable banned or DNT (Do Not Trade) users to sell off their names using alt Discord accounts. This is currently taking place, but I am not pointing fingers at any specific individuals.

The RuneScape name market has been dry for some time now, which means that there is a limited supply of desirable names available. If you want to find a decent name, you may need to scout for names in the game itself rather than relying solely on online marketplaces.

While it may seem convenient to list your name for sale with a specific name seller, this approach can create a monopoly on the name market and lead to unhealthy competition among buyers and sellers. Specifically, when one or a few sellers dominate the market, they can approve name listings with an artificially high price, which can create an unfair advantage for those who participating in the market.

With the ban on "Community Name Sales", a new meta will emerge. The new meta would be listing the community names for sale on a seller's personal list.

Here's 2 of my ideas on how we can tackle this situation:
1. Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales - Sellers can only advertise names they personally are selling

2. Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales - Allow sellers to list names for friends on their personal list - Limit of 10 commission names

In conclusion, I hope that my suggestion has been helpful in shedding light on the potential negative impacts of community name sales listings. I want to reiterate that my intention is not to target any individual or group, but rather to promote a more competitive and fair name marketplace for everyone. If nothing is done, the current trend of monopolization may continue, resulting in artificially inflated name prices. Let's work together to ensure that the name market remains a fair and accessible platform for all.

I have added pictures of my Community/Commission name sales channels, so people who are not familiar with the topic can put their two cents in.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

Hi there,

Support, I just wanted to post on my own behalf as a participant & fellow name-seller within the community. I agree that these community “commission sales” have drastically impacted how the name market functions. Names are the most expensive they have ever been in the history of the market. I do understand a lot of names are banned, sniped, deleted, or hoarded. I personally believe this is also due to artificial price manipulation, nowadays names are bought and then they are attempted to be resold for triple the original buying price if they are lucky. Since these names are listed with the approval of external sellers that makes the market a bit hectic, no they do NOT easily sell for the listed prices realistically. Furthermore, I like the idea of a limitation of how many names a name-seller can sell for individuals as these individuals may or may not fully understand or comply with Sythe rules. I do get terms of services are put to be enforced but a lot of individuals will simply not follow them as requested from previous experience.

Kind Regards,
Milk

 

I believe the issue here summarizes that xxx name sellers not having the same exposure and trouble selling their own stock.

i find the part where it’s an issue for other name sellers to be quite irrelevant. It is your own responsibility & due diligence to grow your own shop. Bumping a couple threads a day can help grow your shop, but to actually gain numbers it takes $$ (giveaways), time, and lots & lots of patience. It’s not something that happens overnight and being the underdog is not an excuse to try and limit the bigger competition.

This has already been addressed Banned or DNT users can sell off their names if they have no debt.

Personally, we do not do this. We find it pretty dumb & chuckle between @Assassin when we see competitors put a name x5 the value of something ridiculously dumb.
We like to list names @ what we genuinely think the user can obtain in terms of price.
As well all know people love to offer 1/2 the value & ultimately it’s up to the seller to take the offer they like.

I would like to ask, why make this suggestion? You’ve been using us & others to list your names for a while now? Many names yourself have listed for pretty high amounts & we had no problem listing them? However now you come back to the market & I can understand you’re trying to make a name for yourself again by doing invite competitions etc.. but you’ve used & or abused this system yourself. What changed?
I’m not trying to “take shots” I’m just confused.

I would also like to add that community name sales in our server has been a really great success in keeping owner/seller private & has helped with people getting their names safely transferred without the fear of being sniped.

 

I do support it being removed btw however it was denied.

Suggestion - Ban Commisson Sales

 

Yeah I agree, sellers are responsible for growing their own shop, the suggestion to remove Community Name Sales is not about protecting underdogs or limiting bigger competition. It is about promoting a fair and transparent marketplace for everyone. By allowing only individual sellers to advertise their own names, it ensures that there is no monopoly in the name market and that prices are not artificially inflated. This would benefit all sellers, including those who are already established and successful in their shops, as it would create a more dynamic and competitive marketplace.

Wasn't aware of this and I'll retract that from my argument.

Yep I have "used and abused" the system in the past, I'm using and abusing the system right now, but this doesn't invalidate my suggestion. I just recognized the potential negative impacts that commission/community sales may have on the name market. Just want to have a fair and transparent marketplace for everyone.

 

I supported this before and still support this today

"Commission Name Sales" is basically a trading discord as anyone can theoretically list their name, and the "commission" thing is just a loophole tbh. Many of the reasons why it shouldn't be allowed before still exist, aka it helps scammers/name snipers sell their names off easily. We are even allowed to sell names on the behalf of dnt/banned users for some reason. Apparently what makes it "not" a trading server is the buyer and the seller do not have direct contact with each other, yet I personally don't get how that little difference completely makes commission name selling not a trading server/platform.

I think your other points are fair and make sense as well and even though I am one of the main culprits, I do see it helping the market in the long run, therefore I fully support removing commission name sales.

 

Support. Name trading has always been a sketchy industry and this exception to Sythe rules always seemed like an oddity. I can’t think of any reason to keep commission name sales, it doesn’t even fall under a “free trade” umbrella like so many other gray areas. Been away from Sythe for a few years, surprised this wasn’t already the consensus.

 

Agree that it's created this sort of weird monopoly where 2-3 sellers control the market and artificially raise prices to their advantage. One of these sellers in question tried lowballing me for a name I had purchased completely in good faith a year or two back because it was on a "avoid list" on their discord that they literally created. I had absolutely no knowledge of this list beforehand and wanted to know what was going on.

When prodded further as to why the name was on the list I was told it was because the person selling the name "wouldn't go first" when selling it which seems a little odd to me when you're putting it next to a bunch of names that were actually sniped/recovered/scammed. Just a really strange experience after not really being involved in accounts/names actively in over 5 years and definitely some weird monopoly stuff going on in my opinion.

I'm not against somebody having their own discord server to sell names, but I think the whole listing names for a fee, acting as a marketplace, acting as a "Name request thread", acting as a "Name price checker thread" etc etc takes it a bit too far imo. With these servers you're pretty much giving everything a person needs to not ever have to use the name sales section on sythe again and that's not right imo.

 

This, exactly ^^

Allowing users to "facilitate" and/or sell names for others shouldn't be allow in the first place, IMO. Letting users do it off-site is even worse. I'm shocked this is allowed given other rules that are in place.

I'm not in the name trading business per-se, but I've bought and sold ~10 names over the years and am active in the section. I have seen a significant decline in the quality of that market since commission/community sales rose into existence.

The fact that multiple name sellers / those who are profiting on this issue are here agreeing that the rules should be changed really speaks volumes.



I like @Zombie's suggestion of:

 

This exact same suggestion was made months ago and denied. Nothing new was brought in this one as far as I'm aware.


Its not giving easy access to scammer/sniper to sell their names since we follow the Avoid-List before accepting requests.


No support unless you bring actual solid reasons.

 

It actually brings lots of new users to sythe since we recommend all new users from our discord to create an account on here + vouching after each trades.

Can see from my own references (260+).

Lots more joined without my link but yeah.


Makes this community lots more active since there is more competition in pricings, aka people lose alot less on names so are keen to buy more names and switch more often. Compared to before where they were paying crazy high prices. Then getting offered 1/3 or 1/4 of what they paid. Making them mad and quitting the marker after the trade, telling their friends etc.

 

I think it's important to revisit the topic and discuss it openly and transparently. As the market evolves, new concerns may arise that were not previously considered.

Regarding the concern about scammers/snipers, while it is true that you follow the Avoid-List before accepting requests, it is still possible for scammers/snipers to use alt accounts or find other ways to bypass the system. Not all sniped/hacked names are reported. By banning commission name sales, we can limit the potential for scammers/snipers to exploit the market.

For some reason, Banned/DNT users are also allowed to list their names for sale which baffles me

It is also important to consider the potential long-term effects of commission name sales on the market. While it may bring in new users and make the community more active in the short-term, it can also create a monopoly on the name market and lead to artificially inflated prices. This can be detrimental to both buyers and sellers in the long-term.

While commission name sales may have some short-term benefits, it is important to consider the potential long-term effects on the market. By banning commission name sales and encouraging sellers to sell their own names, we can create a more sustainable and fair marketplace for everyone.

 

This I am completely agreeing with you, it makes no sense at all to let them trade freely.

Same as using name snipers services for your (not yourself) own benefits, should NEVER be accepted, we need to keep these guys out of our community and stop giving them attention, but this is a whole different discussion this community should have and is alot more worrying than this whole topic imo.

 

Agree with this sentiment.

But the rest of it - you're smoking a good one cap'n.

 

As an occasional name flipper myself who uses these discords regularly and have my own personal list of 40+ creative or rare names ranging from 80m to 2.5b, I am against this proposal for the following reasons based on my experience in finding customers and selling names.

1) You're taking away a platform for small-time members like me to be able to sell names without taking on a lot of additional effort which I simply won't do as it's not worth my time, and at the same time taking away from any small time buyers having a wider range available to their smaller budgets and possibly future growing with the community and seeking higher tier names like they do with items in game. It's one way that it's killing the market.

2) Discord is more accessible especially when my connection with the client is established over discord, not Sythe. It's an obstacle to explain to a new potential buyer the process of name trading and discord is a more familiar territory to the user and with big active name discords that have 5k+ members and vouch channels, it helps overcome that barrier versus sending the user to shady Sythe forums they never heard of before or have heard of but don't understand it or are aware that it can be the place for black market RuneScape activity. Meanwhile Runescape name trading isn't against the rules when only dealing with gold (assuming no rwt from all parties involved). When you put the black market activity in Sythe with this legitimate venture in one place, good luck finding a maxed player willing to participate in this market. At least with the discords, even though rwt is part of it, it's not advertised and hence doesn't break Jagexs terms. Discord allows for more control to separate the shady black market aspects of the game with the legitimate ones. Sythe does not, or even if it has ways of doing it, it has earned a certain kind of reputation that scares rule abiding players from entering.

3) You mentioned in the post that people with alt discords can still avoid detection and sell names and that by leaving it strictly to Sythe, you are tackling that problem. You are not tackling the problem against anyone that has the intention to overcome that obstacle. If they are savvy enough to snipe names, they are savvy enough to bypass any system you can try to place on an online forum. At least under the discords, we have avoid lists that take away some of that person's ability to sell a sniped/stolen name, and that information is easily accessible to such a point that anyone can just search the name in the discord to confirm if they find it in the avoid lists. How will this work with Sythe? Especially with unsuspecting buyers who are not familiar with the ways of navigating this outdated forum.

4) By taking away the community aspect of the discords, you're taking out the community and the engagement that comes with it. As you mentioned, the name market is dry, why put in barriers to it to make it even less accessible/engaging?

When technology changes, you need to adjust to it or end up being stuck in the past and being an obsolete platform that few still use. Rather than trying to bring things back to the forums, I recommend expanding into the new platforms as well that have gained popularity.

To me, this sounds like a way to monopolise the market and cut out all the little guys like myself who enjoy participating in the market from time to time and checking out the new names that other owners post publicly while selling my own unique names that others buy from me from time to time that big name sellers wouldn't bother listing (80m names).

If you'd like to share your thoughts with me on the above, feel free to message me on discord (Virtuality#3067). I prefer to check my messages there than getting an email notification when a reply is posted.

 

This post kind of backfires because The main reason Sythe removed Trading Servers from Sythe is because of the entire reasoning you just gave in your post here. This is one of the main reasons why community sales is being suggested to be disallowed on Sythe, just like trading servers, because of their extreme similarity and that it takes traffic away from Sythe...

 

Hi Alex,
Just wanted to respond to some interesting points that you have stated.

How does community sales bring more members into sythe.org? In addition, other name-sellers do already offer community sales themselves. However, referring them to sythe.org individually is another thing. From what I recall you had a promotion within your server where you were trying to refer people into sythe.org for bonds for a goal objective based goal. I am totally up for encouraging new people onto sythe.org & have implemented a system to as well but of course 260+ members referred weren't truthfully entirely from this new system.

I genuinely think people lose out more on names when they buy them for 3-4x the retail market price norm and then try to quickly resell them for liquidity. They simply can't sell them for that much fast so they need to significantly decrease the price. According to your own discord statistics you have way more 2b+ name customers in comparison to 5b+. The average name customer does not want to spend grands on a RuneScape name. Now, i'm not just trying to point fingers at just you but if individuals list their prices for unreasonable prices then it does upscale the market overall.

 

Community/Commission name sales is the best thing to have happened to the name market in my opinion.
I feel that it has brought forward so many more names to the market that wouldn't have been listed. It has enabled a safe space for name owners to list their names at the prices they are prepared to sell them for.
I also feel community sales stops big name sellers from controlling the market. One of the issues I faced when entering the name market for the first time was after I tried to sell the name I had bought from a reputable seller. I purchased the name for 1.3ishb and after a few months fancied a change. The name seller I purchased from wasn't interested in the name and offered me about 500m 07. I settled with another seller for 600m. they later listed the rsn for over 2b.. If C Sales was around at this point I feel that I may have not gotten ripped off.
Owners of rsn's being able to set the price they want is the right way to go. Comm Sales enables that.

Just my two cents

 

Idk who you bought or sold or what name you’re referring to but you’re not being ripped off.

Names are a liability they are generally not an investment. They can be seen as branding, you pay/overpay for something that represents you (your character).
You wanna buy & sell your name for the same price losing no money? Or potentially only making money?
Do you pay for sponsors? Do you pay for thousand dollar giveaways? Do you constantly have to take time out of your day to deal with imposters, scammers, time waster, people trying to exploit you?
Have you ever been chain banned for name hoarding or rwt for holding gold?
we are talking about thousands & thousands of dollars lost instantly to jagex not some 500m difference on a name thinking you’re ripped off.

The answer to that is no, you don’t. These are the risks we take.
Now if you want to be a “big name sellers controlling the market” then YOU need to sacrifice time & money.
Com sales is simply a bypass to an open trade market which sythe.org frowns upon.
It should be simply removed & the name market should be reverted back to how it was.