It is man's duty to protect women.
Feminists going too far?
- Thread starter Wonderland
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It is man's duty to protect women.
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What about treating women differently because of their looks, or idiosyncrasies (by idiosyncrasies I also mean stuff like the way they dress, the way they groom themselves, talk, act, etc)?
You should treat a woman differently than you treat a man. It's only a problem when you treat them with discrimination or negative intentions.
The idiosyncrasies you mention are all examples if how you should be gentler with women.
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Why? What if someone said you should treat black people differently than you treat white people. Or that you should treat blue eyed people differently than you treat brown eyed people. Surely you would disagree with the latter two, so what do you think the distinction is between gender, race, and eye colour?
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Because there are clear biological, physiological, psychological, and sociological differences in gender....
This is why I don't support the hate and inequality movement called feminism. It's a blatant attack against males. Feminism is no more the definition you claim it to be than Westboro Baptist church is a church or baptist. Anyone can call themselves whatever you want, but it doesn't change that you are a part of the feminist hate group if you support them, their legislature, or agenda.
The CORE of feminist belief involves giving more rights and privileges to women than men, end of story. If you are talking about a group whose core is equality of all people, that's called a human rights activist, not a feminist.
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Notwithstanding the fact that some differences do exist between races, lets talk about some of these differences between gender. Why should men and women be treated differently because one has a penis and the other a vagina? Why should they be treated differently because one menstruates and the other doesn't? These are clear biological and physiological differences. Why do they entail that we should treat men and women differently?
Your fundamental point is that men and women are different and therefore we should treat them differently. There are many differences however, for example, women generally have thinner skin than men. Which differences in particular require that we should treat them differently?
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The blatant ignorance on this thread just disturbs me. Not being aware of the problems doesn't mean they are not there and just further shows the privilege you have. It's like a white teenager saying that police killings are not a real problem in the U.S. and then looking at the stats and seeing how minutely they're effected.
Without feminism suffrage would have never happened and hell, women likely wouldn't be working at the capacity they are today. Feminism at it's core is about equality (broad, I know), but unless we're going to have a discussion about what equality is, and whether equality is possible (which it's not.)
Its literal definition is: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes .
Many of these issues you're pointing out are advocated by feminists. The actual feminist movement believes that women should be equal to men. Ex:Men and sexual abuse, women taking children after a divorce, etc.
In the U.K. the retiring age for women was raised to 65. In the U.S., what the hell are you talking about? The earliest someone can receive Social Security is 62 (male or female.)
A lot of feminists recognize this and believe there should be both Maternity and Paternity leave. The U.S. is the only Western country that doesn't even have guranteed Maternity leave. You just pointed out something they're advocating for #woops
Insurance rates are done by companies based of the statistics of you crashing. Sorry to break the news, guys get more speeding tickets and in more accidents then women. Hint the raise.
That's a divorce case for you, they're generally split down the middle both sides unless an agreement was signed that could potentially void a "split" upon a divorce (ex: cheating.) + Some female UK Parliament speaker (I think?) came out a week-or-two discussing this and how that precedent gives the wrong message.
Statements like "women aren't expected to work." What? More info pls
@see feminism
@see feminism
Well that's unfortunate, but people of color are also serving significantly more jail time for the same crime then white people. That's a problem with the justice system that needs to be fixed.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Less then 500 men will die of Testicular cancer this year. Nearly 40,000 women will.
Again, what?
Again, what? Some basis for this please. Also, don't forget the sexualization of some of the donations towards women. Ex: Breast cancer movements aimed at "saving the tatas." There are numerous cases where men will flat-out leave their wives because they lost their breasts to cancer.
Again, what?
Hey bro, that's called gender roles. They're created by society and try being in a relationship without them, it's quite nice.
More like it's called being polite and/or nice. Also gender roles which I've already mentioned. My ex would often get the doors for me and vice versa. Hell, my friends and I get the doors for each other all the damn time.
As there are black-only organizations, I fail to see the problem with an organization that's women's only. Are there not also organizations that are men-only, or at least heavily dominated by men?
Ps. Definitely not the same advantages.
No, just no.
The blatant ignorance on this thread just disturbs me. Not being aware of the problems doesn't mean they are not there and just further shows the privilege you have. It's like a white teenager saying that police killings are not a real problem in the U.S. and then looking at the stats and seeing how minutely they're effected.
That's the thing, that is what feminism is about, but quite often that is not what is publicized. The individuals whom claim to be feminists that attacked her, well, are not feminists. There's no problem with traditional values. There are definitely extremists within feminism that give the entire movement a bad name, but that is not the movement as a whole. There are definitely problems, but writing off an entire thing due to subgroups (ex: Islam and ISIS or Christianity and the Westboro Baptist Church) is just ignorant.
Without feminism suffrage would have never happened and hell, women likely wouldn't be working at the capacity they are today. Feminism at it's core is about equality (broad, I know), but unless we're going to have a discussion about what equality is, and whether equality is possible (which it's not.)
Its literal definition is: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes .
Many of these issues you're pointing out are advocated by feminists. The actual feminist movement believes that women should be equal to men. Ex:Men and sexual abuse, women taking children after a divorce, etc.
In the U.K. the retiring age for women was raised to 65. In the U.S., what the hell are you talking about? The earliest someone can receive Social Security is 62 (male or female.)
A lot of feminists recognize this and believe there should be both Maternity and Paternity leave. The U.S. is the only Western country that doesn't even have guranteed Maternity leave. You just pointed out something they're advocating for #woops
Insurance rates are done by companies based of the statistics of you crashing. Sorry to break the news, guys get more speeding tickets and in more accidents then women. Hint the raise.
That's a divorce case for you, they're generally split down the middle both sides unless an agreement was signed that could potentially void a "split" upon a divorce (ex: cheating.) + Some female UK Parliament speaker (I think?) came out a week-or-two discussing this and how that precedent gives the wrong message.
Statements like "women aren't expected to work." What? More info pls
@see feminism
@see feminism
Well that's unfortunate, but people of color are also serving significantly more jail time for the same crime then white people. That's a problem with the justice system that needs to be fixed.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Less then 500 men will die of Testicular cancer this year. Nearly 40,000 women will.
Again, what?
Again, what? Some basis for this please. Also, don't forget the sexualization of some of the donations towards women. Ex: Breast cancer movements aimed at "saving the tatas." There are numerous cases where men will flat-out leave their wives because they lost their breasts to cancer.
Again, what?
Hey bro, that's called gender roles. They're created by society and try being in a relationship without them, it's quite nice.
More like it's called being polite and/or nice. Also gender roles which I've already mentioned. My ex would often get the doors for me and vice versa. Hell, my friends and I get the doors for each other all the damn time.
As there are black-only organizations, I fail to see the problem with an organization that's women's only. Are there not also organizations that are men-only, or at least heavily dominated by men?
Ps. Definitely not the same advantages.
No, just no.
"Abandoned"? All of the original feminists are dead and they largely accomplished their goals. There comes a point when you've won the battle and it's time to disband. If you want to fight a new war, you ought to start a new group: not try to piggyback off an older group when there are a bunch of crazies doing the same thing. It only confuses people as to whether you want to advance rational goals through rational argumentation or are one of the crazies--because the original feminists no longer exist.
No. When people start using the government and force to implant their ideas about what gender is on small children through the public school system, that is similar to what is done in a totalitarian Islamist (not Islamic) State.
Fine by me. But most self-proclaimed "feminists" I've met go further than this: They think it is the duty of schooling or the government to impose a different idea of gender onto the public--namely, their own subjective idea of gender.
We're on the same page so far.
If you're actually just going around telling people not to mistreat women, that women ought to have legal equality with men, etc., fine by me. I support such a goal. But I've rarely met any self-proclaimed feminists--at least here in America--who are so humble about the social changes they are trying to effect. They want a revolution--and they want it by force, by state mandate.
No need to be rude
Not being rude, but "there is a difference between knowing the name of something and KNOWING something." (Feynman) Getting so caught up on what the definition of feminism is does nothing to advance the legal equality of the sexes: It merely serves to advance the interests of the most radical feminists, who play the same semantic game--you ought to be a feminist and agree with everything I say, otherwise you're promoting "gender inequality", "rape culture", "evil", "Satan", "the end of the world", whatever.I agree, but this is precisely my point. It doesn't make any sense to talk about "society" forcing "gender stereotypes" on "every girl" because there are only individuals, each of whom has their own, private, individualized concept of their own sexuality and their own sexual ethics.
Once people start calling themselves "feminists", they tend to (at least from my own personal observations) slide down a very dangerous slope where they begin to actually denigrate other women who believe in more traditional gender roles for themselves.
"You don't want to go to college and would instead raise a family??? What the hell is wrong with you; you're a weak women; you're promoting gender inequality, etc." No, that's what you're doing by telling other people how to live their lives.
If a woman wants to get an education and a job, good for her. If a woman wants to be a housewife, good for her. It's none of anybody else's damn business what another sovereign individual decides to do with their own life--whether it's devoting it to their work, to their children, or some combination thereof.
But as long as you don't do that, I'm glad.
I hope not.
Feminists aim to invade the privacy of others and exert their laws and policy on them, not protect themselves from oppression. The existence behind the group is a fallacy.
Like I mentioned, someone who advocates for equality of the sexes does not need to align themselves with one of the sexes.
@Tmoe, when I go to the front page of that heforshe organization?
It says they are taking action against violence faced by women, not men. This isn't equality, it is literally the exact opposite. It even says "share this with men".
The front page of this organization is self defeating, it already takes the premise that sexes are not equal and that women and girls should have to be protected from violence and discrimination, while men do not receive that support.
Honestly shameful propaganda, anyone who supports this shit should be disrespected.
Like I mentioned, someone who advocates for equality of the sexes does not need to align themselves with one of the sexes.
@Tmoe, when I go to the front page of that heforshe organization?
It says they are taking action against violence faced by women, not men. This isn't equality, it is literally the exact opposite. It even says "share this with men".
The front page of this organization is self defeating, it already takes the premise that sexes are not equal and that women and girls should have to be protected from violence and discrimination, while men do not receive that support.
Honestly shameful propaganda, anyone who supports this shit should be disrespected.
I get what you mean but the problem for me is this constant message of "Men have to, men havn't yet, men need to, men must, men, men, men and men once more". Why not use a message like "everyone for everyone" not "He for she". That's sexist
I personally think that we should abandon the feminism movement and start an equality movement and please don't me that they are the same because they aren't. A fair amount(I'd want to say most) of feminists are wolves in sheep clothing (read:feminazis) and I personally don't draw an "=" sign between feminists and the supporters of feminism. To me feminist is a person doing something for the cause and a supporter is someone who supports the actions of those people. Does that make the supporters feminists? I don't believe that's the case. And for some reason the feminazis are outdoing the feminists and been doing so for a while now.
In conclusion this whole topic is stupid because it's not the feminists going too far, it's the feminazis going too far. Feminist are a dieing breed and the movement has pretty much been taken over by fooking NAZIS I TELL YA!
Hero
Cbf posting some opinion that's deep and shit but all I have to say... in Canada there is no such thing as male sports. Every team for recreational sports was "co-ed" meaning girls could play which fucking sucked because they were always the weakest link in the team yet there is an all girls league that they didn't want to play in? How is that fair really. You choose to make our league less competitive for "gender equality" yet it would make more sense if each league was separate since guys are definitely not allowed playing in girls leagues. /End rant girls out of guys sports teams and vise versa.
Lol I know right.
Feminists are quick to attack private clubs for sex-separated activities, yet here's my question to anyone who bothers to post after this support the feminist hate movement: Where are all the feminists advocating for women to be drafted to go to the front lines of war? Surely women are not equal under the law until they are allowed the equal opportunity to be forced by the government to wield a weapon and be explosives bait while they occupy deserts halfway across the world for the sake of holding their countries flag.
Hero
Don't you know that women equality only applies when it's convenient and favors women gosh that's why it's called equ.... oh wait.
feminists always go too far...they're feminists.
I CBF to try and go quote and respond to all these different things, so I'm just making a broad post.
The whole argument for an "equality" movement rather than any other movement which focuses on a specifically oppressed population is a movement that ignores the problems with the specifically oppressed population. Sorry to break it to you, but men and women don't face the same problems and the problems that are faced are strongly stacked against women. I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't worry about being raped every time you go for a late walk, or wonder if you can accept a drink from the guy offering to get you one. Perhaps you do, but I'm assuming you don't.
In this specific circumstance, it happens to be inequality for women. You cannot have some movement for equality and say everyone is equal without first recognizing everyone is not equal. Sharing your feelings on how you think women are equal or don't have to face particular problems you do do not invalidate their own.
What you define feminism as (whether it is feminazis which are definitely real) does not matter. Feminists do not equal feminazis. The concept of feminazis is disappointing and it's a shame they call themselves feminists, they're not. They're on par with a hate-group.
It's aimed a men because it is about mostly men suppressing women. Women surely do the same and there is plenty of women is due the same, but by the numbers there are surely more men.
Regarding sports, I myself don't see a problem with different leagues simply due to the differences in a biological build. Now if a woman would like to join a male dominated sport (ex: highschool football team), she should be able to providing she can meet all the same requirements a guy would meet.
Entrr that's unfortunate that it's like that where you are, I imagine that can ruin a game. Thankfully at the schools I attended there were boys/girls, but the option for women to join our football team was still there (and we did have some female players and they were ridiculous good.) Equality definitely isn't just "lets give everyone the exact same thing."
Last time there was a draft, it was Vietnam and it was unpopular as fuck. No one is going to advocate for a draft; furthermore, I wouldn't expect there to be a draft anytime soon, the U.S. military is fucking gigantic.
Also there is a push to allow women to be in combat roles in the military and it has been met with resistance. You say these things as if they are fact when you have no idea what you're talking about.
The whole argument for an "equality" movement rather than any other movement which focuses on a specifically oppressed population is a movement that ignores the problems with the specifically oppressed population. Sorry to break it to you, but men and women don't face the same problems and the problems that are faced are strongly stacked against women. I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't worry about being raped every time you go for a late walk, or wonder if you can accept a drink from the guy offering to get you one. Perhaps you do, but I'm assuming you don't.
In this specific circumstance, it happens to be inequality for women. You cannot have some movement for equality and say everyone is equal without first recognizing everyone is not equal. Sharing your feelings on how you think women are equal or don't have to face particular problems you do do not invalidate their own.
What you define feminism as (whether it is feminazis which are definitely real) does not matter. Feminists do not equal feminazis. The concept of feminazis is disappointing and it's a shame they call themselves feminists, they're not. They're on par with a hate-group.
It's aimed a men because it is about mostly men suppressing women. Women surely do the same and there is plenty of women is due the same, but by the numbers there are surely more men.
Regarding sports, I myself don't see a problem with different leagues simply due to the differences in a biological build. Now if a woman would like to join a male dominated sport (ex: highschool football team), she should be able to providing she can meet all the same requirements a guy would meet.
Entrr that's unfortunate that it's like that where you are, I imagine that can ruin a game. Thankfully at the schools I attended there were boys/girls, but the option for women to join our football team was still there (and we did have some female players and they were ridiculous good.) Equality definitely isn't just "lets give everyone the exact same thing."
Last time there was a draft, it was Vietnam and it was unpopular as fuck. No one is going to advocate for a draft; furthermore, I wouldn't expect there to be a draft anytime soon, the U.S. military is fucking gigantic.
Also there is a push to allow women to be in combat roles in the military and it has been met with resistance. You say these things as if they are fact when you have no idea what you're talking about.
whaatitdo
Guru
Technically, by the definition of feminism, you are saying you aren't an advocate of equal rights for women with men if aren't a feminist.
The problem lies in the misnomer that feminism means women should have more rights or women only organizations.
To me, whoever is making those claims, just doesn't know the definition and is clearly looking for a false example to complain about their feelings.
The problem lies in the misnomer that feminism means women should have more rights or women only organizations.
To me, whoever is making those claims, just doesn't know the definition and is clearly looking for a false example to complain about their feelings.
jed1
Grand Master
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According to social status quo generalization...for now...
Non-feminists are not the same as rape advocates. This is the main fallacy of feminism hate movement is that women are able to be exploited by men, but never the opposite - solely discriminating against men because of their sex.
This is why it is not an equality movement. It's as you said, "aimed" at men. Men are targets of the hate.
No argument against that.
It's not about the likelyhood of the event, it's about equal protection under the law. Women are offered protection against forced armed combat under the law, men are not.
Once again, the same with sports teams, some people have an issue with sex seperated equality (men's and women's leagues). When men and women's leagues are combined, the more competitive at that particular skill/sport/talent of the two is forced to compete at the level of the lower league.
It's not that people should be advocating that women should be forced into armed combat, it is no wonder that movement faces resistance because forced armed combat is hell on earth - they are advocating that men and women should be treated equally under the law.
Feminism is self defeating in the fact that they claim equality, but align themselves with and support only one sex, not both.