Forgot to take screenshot, scammer gets away?

I understand that rules state that msn chat logs do not count as viable proof, however, does this scammer really get away with scamming me because i forgot to take screenshots of the active chat window?

http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1155372

He recovered the account about 3 days after talking with him.. so there was no need at the time to take screenshots. How can i show we traded?

 

I think you should do what most sythe user's do. Create a sythe folder and during all trades screenshot all the important information that will lead to a scam report. So if someone does decide to charge back / recover you always have the information needed to file a scam report on them. This has worked successfully for many sythers.

 

If we took everyone's word for things all the time, we'd have a lot of innocent users banned. That's why we demand extensive evidence from everyone.

 

How do you edit msn chat logs? I can make a video/teamview the conversation history..

 

For all we know, you could have already edited them.

Also, there's a template for reporting account recoveries; albeit they are the hardest form of scamming to prove. You can find that form in this thread.

 

Just take screenshots of ALL trades , ALWAYS get a Pm , and get them to confirm their msn via PM.

Save into a folder and get them when needed.

 

What if i show the paypal chargeback i did him? How would i get his paypal address without talking and trading him on msn?

Also, on his social updates, you can see where he added me. He since has removed/ignored me on msn

As far as the chatlog, it was last edited on 6/14/2011. I made that report thread on 6/19/2011. We also invited hahanerd to mm our trade, but he had to leave. You can confirm this with him. Tonil also posted on his mm thread:



He also is ignoring my pm i sent on here, and hasn't made a dispute thread on here about my chargeback. I wonder why. Also take into count his communication, or lack there of: not denying anything in pm and not making a dispute thread against me

I also have the screenshot of my first time logging into the account, if someone could compare the last ip on the account to his on here you would find out its his:




I believe i have proved beyond a reasonable doubt we traded.

Im just trying to remove him from this community before he scams again...

 

You need proof, i suggest you screenshot all trades and dont trade accounts with untrusted users.

 

They're right.
I hate the system, but It's just how it goes. That's why I'll personally never buy an account on Sythe. It's too risky and too hard to prove - it's also the most likely to get scammed.

 

I don't even report people who scam me anymore. The report system here is ridicules and way to hard to get someone banned. You know you won't ever trade with that person again, it's sythes fault if he scams others.

 

So in your mind we should ban off of 70% proof and not care what really happened?

 

I think the report system as it currently stands doesn't work very good and deserves a look at with other opinions and options available. If someone has other proofs as in they traded the person, the account was recovered, and the MSN histories back it up than it should be held like a trial. Get input from both partys, a lot of the time when someone scams they leave the community or don't respond. If they were to respond to a report, ask why they wouldn't respond to the person, ask why they were blocked on MSN. Use reasonable doubt. There are too many scammers here and I think a big part of it is because of the report a scammer system.

If someone walks into your house, and they are holding a soaked umbrella, there shoes are wet. It is safe and reasonable to assume that it is raining outside, although it hasn't been proven. Use this same kind of common sense.

Now believe me please, I am not trying to diss the mods, I think they do a good job with the tools they are given, I just think the system is flawed. I think the staff should take a serious look at it.

 

You're kind of contradicting yourself in this statement don't you think? You said use reasonable doubt which is exactly what they do in our court systems. You have to see both sides of the case the best possible otherwise it can be easily turned around.

You have to PROVE someone guilty and that has to come down to the buyer/seller being safe and knowledgeable. There are plenty of guides, perhaps if you videotaped the whole thing (hypercam, etc) it would be easier to prove. Alongside of MSN logs, and other proof backing up claims. Using a middleman is again a safe alternative.

There's only so much someone can do to prevent being scammed. Buying an account is a risk. Only make dealings with people you trust, as it is very easy to recover an account. (How can you defend yourself from that?) Otherwise buying RSGP, and items, etc are much more difficult to be scammed on.

What it comes down to is that staff do not hold the responsibility. You as the trader hold the responsibility to keep everything safe and documented. If you do that, everyone who scams will in turn be banned.

You don't have sufficient proof, a staff member can't ban someone just because you tell them to. What do you believe they can do to change the system?

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about, only in criminal cases would proof have to be complete beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise it is based on a preponderance of the evidence.

You can say all you want that it is the persons responsibility and not the staffs, but the bottom line is the person already knows that that person is a scammer and won't deal with them again. They try to get people banned to help the community so the rest of the people here don't have to go through it too. If you make the system too hard for them to help the community, then they will just stop helping.

 

If you can provide the vouch [posted by him], he ignoring your pms, and additional screenshots of the trade. That is more than good enough, to ban someone for account recovery. If you need any other tips, PM me.

 

Like how to scam people and not pay?

OT: Always screenshot everything, they have programs where you can just click a button and it will take a sc and save it for you instead of having to go through all the bs with paint.

Personally I just use the built in screen shot tool from Swift Kit as it does what I just said and it will upload all your images to imageshack then you just gotta paste the url's in the

 

Problem with what you're saying is that I'm sure the staff here have seen hundreds if not thousands of cases of which someone is accusing someone of scamming even though they didn't. This is exactly why adequate and sufficient proof needs to be provided for a ban.

I could easily muster enough proof to make someone look like a scammer and what you're suggesting is making it easier to prove someone guilty. This could in turn leave plenty of scammers unbanned and plenty of framed members being banned.

You need to understand how hard it is to prove that someone recovered an account, there's very little proof that could suggest he scammed the account. He didn't reply to your PMs, so what? I don't come here every day I don't reply to a lot of PMs I receive. I didn't reply to your MSN convo's - I could be on vacation, I could be having internet problems, I could not be at the computer, I could be in the hospital. There are plenty of REASONABLE doubts which is why a ban can't be handed out.

If you ask me the system is as good as it can be right now, and unless you have any ideas other than reduce the amount of proof needed you're not really helping the community.

 

If what you're saying is that to allow other people, beside staff members, to post with proofs, that would be HORRIBLE. If you look at powerbot, look at all of the people there posting random BS on the scam reports that they have no clue about.
However, if this is not what you mean, simply disregard this post.

 

To the above, yeah that was not what I meant. And to the above the above, I have no idea where you would get that it would leave scammers unbanned. If an account is recovered and the person blocks all communication and never comes back to sythe for 10 days + and there is reasonable proof through logs and screen shots than it should be enough. Also, I didn't say reduce the amount of proof needed, but to use common sense when looking at proofs provided.

I don't understand how anyone can say the system works. People get mad at me saying, "If you don't have an answer then your not helping". Is pointing out the fact that an answer needs to be thought of not helping? The current system leaves too many scammers here, I am sure people can agree with that. I am just saying that I don't feel the current system works very well and changes should be made. I don't even care if this results in requiring extra proof. Require people to take vids of trades, put up stickys on how to do this, anything that will help get the scammers out of here for good.

 

@Cami3532

If you don't like this system either come up with a better flawless one or leave? There isn't much else to say as this is the best way to deal with it currently. It's easier to just screenshot everything and save it for around a month or two.

That's what I do, and I bet if I looked hard enough I could find stuff from longer.