Epicurus about God

[Legit.fm]

It's been five years since I don't know what I am. Am I an atheist or a Christian? Once it was all so obvious and so clear, but now I really am indecisive. It actually was Epicurus who made me start thinking five years ago.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

You probably all have seen this before, I'd like to see all your opinions, but especially those from Christians. I am NOT trying to prove a point, I want a peaceful discussion. According to the rules I have to make a statement, well, what Epicurus said is my statement. Opinions?

 

[SexayMistahBee]

Are you by any chance...

Was once a very devoted Christian when you were young
but started to lose your faith in your teenage years as you realized how cruel the world actually is?

You think that you know that God exists.
But you cannot believe, because you are uncertain.
You have no faith in him.

Am I right?

 

[Legit.fm]

Are you by any chance...

Was once a very devoted Christian when you were young
but started to lose your faith in your teenage years as you realized how cruel the world actually is?

You think that you know that God exists.
But you cannot believe, because you are uncertain.
You have no faith in him.

Am I right?

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[Mafek]

You're currently in your state of mind, an agnostic. Most of the world is agnostic, but doesn't quite understand the meaning of what it is. If you believe in god, but don't know what he looks like, sounds like, feels like, smells like, you can't really be sure what (s)he is. Atheists are agnostics too, because they don't believe in god, but have the belief that something had to create them.

 

[Angelmax]

You're currently in your state of mind, an agnostic. Most of the world is agnostic, but doesn't quite understand the meaning of what it is. If you believe in god, but don't know what he looks like, sounds like, feels like, smells like, you can't really be sure what (s)he is. Atheists are agnostics too, because they don't believe in god, but have the belief that something had to create them.

Says who?

 

[DtheK]

Well in the Book of Job it is clearly shown how human beings do not have the capacity to comprehend God's motives. Furthermore, God does not have a duty to explain [why there is evil] saying that the right to know the truth can be overridden or deferred when disclosure of the truth would interfere with a greater good.

 

[Kleenex]

Well in the Book of Job it is clearly shown how human beings do not have the capacity to comprehend God's motives. Furthermore, God does not have a duty to explain [why there is evil] saying that the right to know the truth can be overridden or deferred when disclosure of the truth would interfere with a greater good.

I really couldn't have said it better.

God's reasons for making evil and allowing sin to happen are his own, and we are not expected to understand or comprehend. If it was clear to us why, then it wouldn't be faith. Faith isn't logical, and that's why true believers will get into Heaven. I hope I answered your questions.

 

[SexayMistahBee]

That's exactly how I feel.

Overtime, people will start losing their for many reasons.
Maybe in this case, it's that you see so much evil that God is not taking action against.
In my case, I see too many religious leaders contradicting their teachings.
I tried hard to regain my faith, but I can't understand a thing the preachers are saying anymore because I moved back to my home country, after living in the states for years.

However, reading the book of Job really helps me out lots of times.
Hanging out with devoted Christian friends, who don't contradict theirselves or do things against what is said in the scripture helps a lot, too

 

[Mafek]

Says who?

Says reality; every human being that can think has once wondered where they came from. Wondering is the beauty of agnostics. You're not sure, but your thoughts are always open. That is the mind set of most of the people in the world, and if you deny it, you're a liar.

 

[Maleficent]

It's been five years since I don't know what I am. Am I an atheist or a Christian? Once it was all so obvious and so clear, but now I really am indecisive. It actually was Epicurus who made me start thinking five years ago.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

You probably all have seen this before, I'd like to see all your opinions, but especially those from Christians. I am NOT trying to prove a point, I want a peaceful discussion. According to the rules I have to make a statement, well, what Epicurus said is my statement. Opinions?

What debate do you bring to the table? If you aren't stating facts or trying to prove a point your most is a waste of time.

This forum is a area for knowledgeable discussion and facts not opinions.

 

[Itz Me]

What debate do you bring to the table? If you aren't stating facts or trying to prove a point your most is a waste of time.

This forum is a area for knowledgeable discussion and facts not opinions.

Read the quote. He's wanting someone to counter it.

 

[Rabs]

It's been five years since I don't know what I am. Am I an atheist or a Christian? Once it was all so obvious and so clear, but now I really am indecisive. It actually was Epicurus who made me start thinking five years ago.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If i was a king in the previous times and i was able to watch a live death match in an arena for my amusement, does that make me evil, or even challenge my existence? Although i had the ability to prevent death by stopping the match, it was not seen as such a tragedy in those days... Thus the perception of good/bad/evil has changed.

Furthermore, different people have different perceptions about the boundaries of good and bad.

Gods reason for not preventing 'evil' is the fact that we all have freedom of choice. When you prevent only one side of the spectrum, it becomes unbalanced. To this day the world is overpopulated in certain areas, but if there was no 'evil', surely it would become a lot worse.

One must define 'evil' and their personal ideology about the role of 'God' in order to answer this question themselves.

'Evil' can be seen as death itself... I often get asked many times 'why do people die, why cant people just live on forever?'

It's simply just the cycle of life and the fact that we only view the bad side in the news and media.

God does a lot of good and prevents/stops a lot of tragedies which we have no idea about because its not oblique.

Bottom line is, God gives us (for e.g.) 4 roads to choose from in order to get from A to B. God doesn't interfere with our decision, or chose what road we take, but God does already know the outcome of whatever road we chose before we actually chose it.

It's our right as humans to chose those roads, God only steps in when he feels it needs to be done, although we won't notice when he does.

Whether or not there is a God, people find the need to believe in a higher being for the better of society.

 

[Sanctuary]

I always tend to struggle to express my thoughts on this specific subject in type, but I'll do my best to give you an answer.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

God is quite capable of doing anything, He's God. Jeremiah 32:17 says, "O Sovereign Lord! You have made the heavens and earth by Your great power. Nothing is too hard for You!"

And to go back a step, it's not a question of whether or not God is willing. It's not like sin is something that's too big for God to handle, there are 2 key words you need to consider: Free will.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.[/I]

This goes back to my previous answer; free will. God doesn't take pleasure in watching his creation suffer. You can use the parent analogy; If a child does something wrong, a parent will let the child go through the punishment to learn from their mistakes. Does that mean the parent enjoys watching their child being punished? No.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?[/I]

Again, I don't like the use of the word "willing" here. God desires for us to be in harmony, that's why we were created. But going back to free will, God didn't create humanity to have a bunch of puppets; to be on little strings and do whatever it is the puppeteer wants to make them do. We have the ability to make our own decesions. So to crossing out the use of "will" here, I'd say it's more of God allows it.

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?[/I]

He is quite capable of doing anything. Psalm 8:3-4 states, "When I look at the night sky and see the work of Your fingers-the moon and the stars You have set in place-what are mortals that You should think of us, mere humans that You should care for us?"

As shown in the parable of the lost son, Luke 15:11-32, God just wants to love on us. So if we were programmed little Jesus-zombies, what kind of love would that be?

It's all about those 2 little words: free will.

 

[amazing horse]

i dont belive in jesus

 

[mel1441]

Well, all honesty.. I've never seen that quote before. I think I have heard bits and pieces of it but just can't seem to get a grip of where its from.

I am a Non-Practicing Catholic, I go to a Private Catholic School, I have a theology class once a day, and I usually just sleep. I am passing the class with a 97, and besides for matching on tests the one quote I use and always will when talking about theology is. . . "We are Catholic, We are meant to Suffer."

Now does that sound right to anyone? That our God(Sorry if I offend you) makes us suffer when we are supposed to be at peace?

Left it open for discussion. xD

 

[Verial]

I remember reading somewhere were someone explained the world in a very nice perspective, basically think about it like this: look at mountains, with no civilization, its like looking at the ground, then look over at L.A, and look how much civilization has spread, with pollution, and all that stuff, we are like a fungus on this world, we take all of its resources, and keep growing. i forget who said this, and it was in different wording, but its something to findout and look into.

 

[Schnell]

I remember reading somewhere were someone explained the world in a very nice perspective, basically think about it like this: look at mountains, with no civilization, its like looking at the ground, then look over at L.A, and look how much civilization has spread, with pollution, and all that stuff, we are like a fungus on this world, we take all of its resources, and keep growing. i forget who said this, and it was in different wording, but its something to findout and look into.

Mr. Smith in the Matrix makes a good description of it.