Donald Trump bans transgenders from serving in U.S. military

Transgender people are a stain on society and need help. They don't need encouragement and enablers such as yourself.

 

No, Ireland.

First of all, mental illness isn't the same thing as mental instability.

Second of all, transgender people aren't considered mentally ill.

You misunderstand me. Sure, their opinion may count for less, but I didn't mention anything about an opinion. I said that the quality of their argument doesn't hinge on their nationality - that is, a good argument with logical points doesn't suddenly become gibberish if you were born somewhere else. Arguments stand and fall on their own merits.

Sure they need help - the treatment is hormones/surgery. As for "stain on society", well, this is a board for arguments, not feelings.

Attempting suicide = mentally unstable. Not all transgender people attempt suicide, that is obvious.

Depression is a mental disorder, yes, but as I said, mental disorder != mentally unstable.

I do know that. They need help.

Also, try to contain your thoughts to one post, if you can.

 

They help they need is medicine. There is a chemical imbalance in their brain. This can and has been PROVED. If you’re really that ignorant i have nothing else to say to you except i hope you enjoy 8 years in a republican country.

 

Absolutely - hormones is the medicine that they need. I'm glad we agree.

 

Nope, what they need is SSRIs and anti depressants. A knock on the head would probably do them good too

 

First, SSRI's ARE an antidepressant.

Second, no. Medical science 100% disagrees with you.

 

Replace 'american' with 'military' and according to your argument you're not qualified to express your opinions on this topic unless you're in the military. Are you in the military?

 

If rosegold is saying whats tru they go through all this hormone treatment etc, i dont blaim him for doing it, 1 it extra cost they would have to pay for it, and they would not be the most levelled headed of all would they.

 

Why do you think this?

 

Plenty of people in the military have mental disorders and/or take medications. Supplying these folks with what they need is what makes the change from (potentially) mentally unstable to stable individuals capable of serving. Ignoring the issue at hand and leaving them to the wolves is what makes them unfit to perform their duties as a service member.

They aren't a liability and neither are transgender people. They aren't disruptive; they've done their part but now we're suggesting that there are "tremendous medical costs"? Bullshit. If Trump is so worried about it being too expensive, then he should have proposed that we don't pay for their transitions. That's something I can get behind.

Not to mention he makes it seem like there aren't transgender people already in the armed forces: "... that transgender in the military would entail" - did he not think this would mean we would have to kick out thousands of people who have the right to be in the service by saying they have no place in our military in any capacity? They've done everything that's been asked of them; been through training, deployments, years of loyalty to our country.

At the very least, just say it like it is if you're trying to implement something like this. Don't try to make it sound better than it is, even though the way it came out was still pretty fucking horrible. It was an ignorant thing to suggest, let alone share as a first-announcement of sorts via Twitter once again.

 

Currently, there are no transitioned people serving in the military. Obama regs made it possible for trans people to join, but they still have not come into effect, and Trump has blocked them from doing so. The service members who "identify" as trans have had no surgeries and take no medications. Quite literally they just refer to themselves as the other gender.
You've got to realize the Military does not want to spend more on anyone's medication than they have to. People are denied for seasonal allergies, although nobody gets upset about that. They have thousands of people lining up to join. Why would they willingly select the individuals who are certainly going to cost more money, even without the operation costs?
And personally, every transgender I've met be it post op or pre op- they have not been in a healthy state of mind. I'm sure there are those who are fine, but it is NOT the majority.

 

This is absolutely false. Anything trans service members have been promised prior to Trump's (in-progress?) bill will still happen. This includes hormones. I have a friend who (although out of the Army now) was on hormones whilst still serving as Active Duty. You're also wrong in regards to, "quite literally they just refer to themselves as the other gender." When you identify as trans in the military, you are welcome to transition, HOWEVER, whatever your papers say you are from when you signed your contract (ie if you enlisted as female), you will continue to be treated as such -- you will sleep in barracks assigned to females, you will use female showers, you will wear female uniforms, you will attend mandatory female health & wellness check-ups.

The military absolutely does want to spend money to keep their ASSETS in good standing, ie mental health / medications. I can speak for the Navy on this one that -- and I'm sure its uniform across all our armed forces -- mental illness is a thing we don't take lightly and we are always looking for ways to identify problems with our service members and act towards finding solutions to help them get better.

Asthma is an automatic DQ, yet you can get a waiver to join the military with asthma. Some branches treat certain waivers differently and some may be harder to get than others, but it's entirely possible.

I have many friends who are trans, and I have some trans military friends, both pre- and post-op, and they are perfectly happy people. It doesn't matter what majority you're trying to look at -- you can never speak for all -- and there are thousands of trans service members who are doing perfectly okay right now.

And if you read my post, I said: If this was truly about finances, Trump could aim for a bill that doesn't allow service members to get their transitions paid for at the hands of our funds.

 

I am aloud my own opinion no matter how many times you delete it, so many people on here crying over this, it really dont matter if you can not do the job get over it find a different onem they chopped there dick off or vise versa get over it, too many people cry over things they cant do from choices they have made onto them selfs. grow up not like its the only job out there, people do anything to get offended theses days

@Milotic if your gonna delete comments at least tag your name on it

 

What? I didn't post nor delete anything. I've been reading the replies.

 

Sorry my posted got deleted and you was viewing it my apologise @Milotic

 

Transgender people are over 14x more likley to kill themselves.. Transgender people have a very very long history of mental health issues, that goes back before many of us were born. Transgender people serving in the military bring up all sorts of different accommodation, logistical, and social issues within the military, rather it is the navy, marines, or other armed forces.

Putting a group of people who most likely (as most studies suggest) suffer from mental illness, depression, and gender dismorphia

I would love if they served in the military, just not in the armed forces, and even then, it would create so many concerns and probelms and would make the flow of the military off...

However, I think making ANY laws for the 0.03% of the U.S. Population that's trans (only a very small portion actually going forward with a sex change) is utterly stupid. The government shouldn't be in the business of sex or marriage, or mail delivery... They mess everything up

Kinda how target put the wants of 0.03% of the population ahead of the 99.97 percent of target shoppers in the name of social justice.


Bottom line: common sense governing of what we need, and banning transgendered only make them more victimized and thus creates a controversy that may never end.

 

This is what my cousin had to say on the matter. He's an Officer in the AF. When you join, your identification and everything military related has to match what's on your BIRTH certificate, not your current gender. I can't find to confirm whether or not they at any point accepted individuals who have already had transitional surgery prior to enlistment, but tricare does actually cover hormone therapy. I'm just going to suggest that you google the side effects related to hormone therapy and try to say it's a good idea to have people on those meds potentially in a battlefield. & yes, every branch cares for the mental health of their members and will do their best to help them fix any service related issues. You don't just join the military having PTSD, they can decline you for many of these reasons. Once you're already in it's a different story if it's developed after.

 

I'm in the military as well and I know first hand that your information can be changed. Do you realize that you can change the gender on your birth certificate? There are side effects with everything. Navy for example: We may be on war ships but we aren't in/on a battlefield (you can consider deployments in international waters a potential battlefield). Often times we're targeting enemies from over the horizon. Even when the fight is brought to us or we're in a General Quarters situation, we're still able to get everything we need to include medicines, which is why you're able to be in the military with required things such as antidepressants. If your cousin would like to talk about his experience with this more, he's welcome to -- but I know the Navy and have had experiences with Army friends in this situation.

 

I might be misunderstanding you, but are you saying that transgendered people are not level headed?

...What specific issues do transgendered people bring up?

Putting a group of people who most likely (as most studies suggest) suffer from mental illness, depression, and gender dismorphia

Great, let's stop making laws about trans people. Let's treat them like normal people.

Uh, what? Is this now a conspiracy theory thread?

 

Lol what? Target made it policy that anyone can enter and use any bathroom they feel like based on how they identify. This issue only came up after transgender issues became the best selling topic of the time lol. So no, it's not a conspiracy... It's something that literally happened?

Disclaimer, the link I am about to send should not represent my options, but is just used to show that this isn't a "conspiracy theory"... You are starting to sound like Hillary and CNN rn.

The second quote was from when my phone died so I never got to finish and forgot about the edit lol. But yeah transgender issues bring up hosing issues, accommodation issues, most teams have to take specific medicines before and after going through treatment that can have various different side effects, problems with squad mates, problems with mental health issues.. The list goes on.

I Was a Transgender Soldier. Gender Dysphoria Poses Real Problems for the Military.

^ If you read this you will find a testimony from someone who is trans and served our country ( I respect them for that, but not because they are trans and that makes it somewhat better, but because that would be indenity politics and is what this whole issue usually becomes)

(as the article states "transgender is a large umbrella".. I am not only specifically talking about stricktly trans people, BUT most transgender people DO have gender dysmorphia or other physcological problems)
to prove my point on suicidal rate... this actually is pretty well known fact and is even mentioned by more mainstream outlets... like... see link below

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf


And I do not think of "trans" people and these people who are just abnormal.. I feel like you are treating me like I'm some weird transphobic person. I'm not saying these people don't have the RIGHT to serve in the military, but the idea that banning them from the military is somehow some super immoral evil move is just false and is based on the statistical fact that "Trans people" (but also people with gender dysmorphia in general), are, FOR THE MOST PART, unfit to server in the most powerful military on earth. Most struggle with mental problems and thats the sad truth.


Again, the bottom line is that making stupid laws is stupid, but I can understand why Trump would do this. It DOES pose some form of national security issues and SHOULD be addressed. Making a law to outright ban them... not so smart of a move trump.

But lets seriously stop pretending like people who are transgender don't need help and aren't suffering from mental issues and are completely normal, because its not. Its NOT normal to think your Black when yout White, or Asian when your Hispanic, and its NOT normal to think you are a woman when you are a man, and its not normal to think you are a 6 year old girl when you 56...