Did we invent math?

Was (is) Math discovered or invented?

Please back up your answer with a reason.
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In your response please include a few answers to these mind bogglers!

- If aliens came here would they kno 1+1 is 2?

- Is math realy a language that we all speak?

- How do you kno that 1+1=2? whos to say it isnt 4? or 3?

- Is it possible that math has always been there but mathematicians create axioms to prove their work and work backwards?
Example:
in 'regular math' 12+6= 18, but if we are using the axiom of a clock 12(pm)+6(hrs)=6(am)

- How could so many ancient civilizations live for so long without even having a representation for '0' or negative numbers?

- Does this mean our system is bullshit?

 

Math is universal. It was discovered, not invented.

Watch this video -



Also, the number e appears in nature everywhere.

 

Regardless of what people think, YES we did invent maths.

The same way as we invented language. We also invented time.

 

Math is the language of the universe. We did not invent it, we discovered it.

 

Maths was discovered. We invented the toaster, we discovered maths. We invented balloons, we discovered science. We invented computers, we discovered logic. We don't invent a planet, we discover it, it's objective, whether or not we know about it does not impact on its existence. Much is the same for maths, science, and logic; gravity didn't come into existence because it wasn't invented, it was discovered. Triangles didn't obey different rules, or no rules before sin, cos and tan were discovered. Toasters however did not exist before we invented them.

 

It was discovered

- If aliens came here would they kno 1+1 is 2?
Obviously, 1 + 1 might just mean different things to them, but the representation of 1 + 1 in their language would still equal 2 in their language.


- Is math really a language that we all speak?

See above post, the representation may be different, but the concepts are the same.

- How do you know that 1+1=2? who's to say it isn't 4? or 3?

Again, these are all representations of an amount of something you have.
If you have a single one of these objects, and you combine it with another single, you get two of the same object.

- Is it possible that math has always been there but mathematicians create axioms to prove their work and work backwards?
Example:
in 'regular math' 12+6= 18, but if we are using the axiom of a clock 12(pm)+6(hrs)=6(am)

That makes no sense... the clock isn't really an axiom, you can just use military time to represent the same thing if you'd like. (And have it be represented in mod 24 so that it loops around).

- How could so many ancient civilizations live for so long without even having a representation for '0' or negative numbers?

Again, nothing has always meant zero. You can think of them counting on a slightly more efficient tally system. And many humans have lived without writing, why would living without math be any different?

- Does this mean our system is bullshit?

Not at all.

 

Math was discovered, but the reasoning of math was, as you put it, "invented".


The idea of these two apples is what we discovered. This "idea" could be expressed in an infinite number of ways way including "1+1". The "1+1" is our own invention.

Take this for example:


This was created by us. It's a means of understanding or documenting what we've already discovered.

 

The rest of your post has already been covered by what other people have said, but this point makes you look idiotic.

A clock uses what is known as modulo arithmetic. That is, you set a limit, and once that limit is reached it resets. For example, counting in seconds is modulo 60. Counting hours on an analog clock is modulo 12. Counting sectors of a circle of width 1 degree is modulo 360. Modulo arithmetic is simply a different WAY of counting, not a means to disprove other systems.

Edit: to put it simply, you don't compare a circle with a straight line and say they're the same thing. Regular arithmetic is linear, whereas modulo arithmetic is circular.​

 

Well said.

 

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you get to place a random argument into motion. Theorizing that our math system is 'bullshit' is flying in the face of many, many brilliant minds who have slaved their lives away trying to understand something that is still not fully mapped.

Also, you can't ask people to back up an answer with a reason when your questions are not reasonable.

 

To the person who talked about 1 + 1 equalling two.

This is just a thought of mine, and it may be quite crazy, but just consider it.

What it, but some revolutionary change in physics, when you combined one apple with another, both apples actually disappeared. (Instead of being added and having two apples).

Now, I know this is crazy, but what if?

It is based on how physics works, it was discovered.

 

To the above comment, wouldn't you need the anti-matter equivalent of an apple in order for them to cancel out? Matter can't be obliterated unless you flung the apples at each other at speeds that accelerated electrons reach to smash each other. Sorry, I'm just trolling right there, but science itself is discovered, however, methods & processes are invented, i.e, you invented a way to smash the fuck out of apples to literally defy physics.

In response to if mathematics was invented or discovered it is all relative towards what you are defining when you say "mathematics", since many people look at the macroscopic view of math. "The abstract science of number, quantity, and space" is what mathematics is defined as in the dictionary, so in essence, as with any science, it is discovered. However, methods in which certain processes are simplified are invented. When you look at something as simple integration, it is an INVENTION. It never existed in any way or form other than adding a bunch of rectangles under a curve together. Sir Isaac Newton developed, and almost literally, invented procedural integration in order to prove a scientific theory, which was discovered.

To prevent any back lash, think of the Fibonacci sequence. The Fibonacci sequence is the sequence that goes 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55, etc(I can't write the subscript summation equation for it on here, but you basically add the previous number to the current number, so 1+2=3, 3+2=5, and so on). MOST flowers have a quantitative factor the applies to the numbers in the Fibonacci sequence, such as the number of petals(hence the reason that four-leaf clovers are so rare and are only result of mutation). It provides access to calculating consecutive number ratios in the sequence in order to achieve a closer number to the golden mean. The Fibonacci sequence also exists in the amount of branches a tree grows per interval of time at the same time, as well as applying to the 137.5 degree start of the Fibonacci spiral in shell formation, flower formation, etc(Google Fibonacci spiral).

Now, sure as hell, the sequence that Leonardo Fibonacci thought up of was not something that did not exist in nature; it existed prior to his thought process of it, therefore he discovered it. However, future mathematicians developed methods in which the Fibonacci sequence can be reasoned and understood such as the process of adjacent squares in the Fibonacci spiral, or the summations and inventions that resulted from it. That is the product of inventions of process/innovative methods of attaining "x" when using "y".

That being said, it is a very abstract science, and science is, for the most part, pre-existing. However, the methods for using discoveries to create something and processing information to simplify or recreate a discovery is an invention in of itself.

Innovation is invention, new observation is discovery.

 

I believe math is what we call an innate idea.

We're born with the capability of mathematical ability, but we just have to uncover it/learn it.

 

To the above statement, we are not born with innate knowledge.
We are born with the ability to learn from patterns that occur in our environment. It is not hidden in our subconscious minds, therefore it is not innate, but the logic is innate, since our brains work to put our environment into a logical order.
However, you are right about learning.

 

I think everything is discovered, not invented. A new recipe will always be there, waiting, for someone to discover it by trying new ingredients together in new ways.

 

Yes, with our physics you do. I was stating, however, what if physics had been (invented/created/chance) so that 1+1 actually equaled 0? We would have a different meaning for it.

We discovered that when you add an apple to another apple, you have two apples.

 

We didn't "invent math", its been covered a lot already, however assuming that an exoplanet contains alien life, its highly probable that at least basic math will develop on that planet. Basic math such as addition subtraction multiplication and division (which is a function of multiplication anyways), is necessary for even the bare minimum for an intelligent civilization.

 

Correct, the concepts are discovered, but you have to understand, that mathematics is also the PROCESS of attaining certain results for abstract science in general. The PROCESS has never existed, no one wrote down laplace transformations before it was written. The concept of it was discovered, but the method and process was invented for attaining the said results.

 

Really interesting queiston, I think our world is based on things invented by us, it was not discovered, but invented.