[DENIED] stricter punishments for outsourcing without customer approval/knowledge

So it might come as a surprise via my title as it's probably not the right wording, but in general I find it quite gross when I come to find out so many servers/service providers are outsourcing their work to vennies and bragging about how much they make privately from conning these hard working people off.


Now then, first of all this is completely against the rules as 99% of the people we can talk about here are doing it without permission just for the simple fact they make an extra few dollars from doing it and claiming it to be them doing it, but instead stack 50-100 orders up at once and outsource them all.

As much as i'm not a fan of hiring them as such (and yes we do have 1 venne who works in my team, an actual assigned worker who deals with work not outsources/privately) I do understand the fact of their country being a lot different to ours and their economy being a lot different there for they turn to games like Runescape/World of Warcafft and such to make income to support themselves and their families.

- What I am suggesting is that people who are actually breaking this rule and KNOWINGLY breaking this rule are either dealt with via a more major issue than just TWC as with all the times it's thrown at them they just appeal after yet again outsourcing work and getting it removed to be re-applied.

- If there is substance to claims maybe ban their threads for X-duration or similar things to show that they are actually breaking the rules and we will not endorse this sort of behaviour.

 

I think the mentioning/targeting of Venezuelans in this thread is misplaced. It throws people who are reading the suggestion off what you're actually proposing. Tidy up the suggestion, which from what I can see you're wanting stricter punishments for those who outsource work without the customer knowing.

 

And I quote -

But yes, you are correct. I do feel it's an issue and at the same time everyone does it knowing that they are not allowed.


Edit - Desire helped with the title to make it more clear, as I say I am sick and tired of the slander they do privately and generally displeasing to understand they are not paying them correctly - When you're paying your "venne worker" pennies and you're charging $100-200-300 etc that's just stupid.

 

It feels like you skimmed over my thread a bit too easy.

It's everything you mentioned, they are ripping vennes off underpaying them for the work they do on top of outsourcing it, I have no issue if you want to use a venne but if you're going to pay them shit pennies when you're making x10-20 the price you pay them then take the piss out of them bashing them privately for it, that's when I say nah.

They are people and should be treated like it, not as a scapegoat for people to make their bill money.

Edit - I mean I understand as someone who is a venne sweatshop you wouldn't understand.

 

First of all, don't get pissy because I called out your shitty acts.

I am not discriminating the people of their country, I am stating you guys are scum bags and should be held accountable for actually using the market properly, within it's rules that you obey to when you sign up to use the forums.

The rules should be changed as people clearly are not willing to follow the rules, this isn't a "personal discussion" as it's not based on me vs you, it's vs all of the providers who use the same concept to get cheap labour via outsource.

Edit - If you do feel this is "targeted against you" then that's up to you to decide like you decided to block me on Discord after mentioning I don't agree with the whole scene you all run.

Maybe fix up on the ruling, outsourcing without permission isn't allowed - Should be handled appropriately.

 

I will leave this here for you @Zora as it seems you don't understand what term you even try to put across.

https://gyazo.com/0c996d1d6217cfc6196587df9d49c262

In fact, I am doing quite the opposite. By mentioning that you are all devaluing human lives (vennes to be exact, as they work so cheap if you need them to) you are actually in fact assisting with making them even worse off than they originally was.

Not only this, but you are openly breaking the rules that you agree to via making your profile on here and advertising your work, which should be handled correctly and there should be further detailed ruling than the good old "we're not allowed to outsource without permission, we do we get TWC" bs.

Oh, and there is this below here - Sounds like outsourcing to me and similar acts to me, taking advantage of people based on their background and such.

 

I am saying "you" as a whole, not "you" specifically, stop being a drama queen.

If I am mentioning "you", if I say all of "you" does that mean just you, your team your family and your pet dog? No that means everyone between too.

I have given you a bit more information regarding your stuff though, and thank you for supporting.

 

As for your questions here, sorry idk how to add quotations in previous posts properly.

- First of all, I know the trade with caution is the way it happens, they then get that appeal it in 30 days happy person goes along and does it again and appeals rinse and repeat - I mentioned this is the thread at the beginning.

This means more strict ruling should be put in place, it's clear people do not wish to follow the rules, there have been many examples in previous reports and such as well, a trade with caution isn't valid anymore.

- They have it in their TOS that "workers" are assigned yes, it doesn't mean workers are actually used though, anyone can claim their grandmother is their worker when she isn't. I enjoyed the day when competition was competition and you actually owned a decent respectful establishment, now you don't see that. (you see what I did there, "you", not defining it as you yourself but as a whole)

 

Before anyone thinks, and i'm posting this because I know certain mods hate it when I talk -

I am not against @Zora lmao, we've spoken privately and all is good.

 

I mean I have 40+ venezuelan workers.

People generally ask where the worker is and I tell them but if I can express not a single one of my 40+ employees have a deposit however I never have a single issue because these are vetted to the max.

I think the issue is though that so so so many people are hiring banned or TWC/DNT venezuelans.

There needs to be a change to the dispute section as well, if a worker scams the employer shouldn't report the "employee" the client should report the provider and handle it in that manner.

At the moment so many providers are going "worker scammed the client" no your "employee" scammed the client and you should be the face of the scam.

Why is it that an "employer" is blaming a "worker for a scam" openly? no you hired someone that scammed your client you are responsible and the provider should get a DNT/TWC for hiring randoms to touch client accounts.

Pretty simple.

Don't hire people who aren't going to do your clients right because you want profits.

Not @Zora just in general hhhh

Yellow Hat

 

EXACTLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

Before i write this post, i have nothing against Vennies, I have my own private worker, i treat him as if he were my brother or best friend. I also dont rip him off. He works his worth 100x over and doesnt stop.

So i have had 2 services now amongst a couple of the top providers(1 we all know about) , both outsourced without my permission/knowledge. One didnt have anything about outsourcing in TOS, The other claims work MAY be outsourced, Yet i was never told my work would be one of those jobs that MAY be outsourced.

That's where my particular stance is. Service providers should tell their clients EXPLICITLY that their job is being outsourced. For example "Hi Ben we currently dont have any workers, as per TOS we could arrange an outsource to do the job for you, would that be ok?" Y/N answer, Yes= "ok this is the worker, here is his discord info/whatever" No="ok have a nice day"

Not "we may outsource everyones order, tough shit if you think its unlikely, because we have a venezualan farm to carry out 99% of our orders. And we wont tell you if we do outsource it."

A way some service providers is getting through a loophole is they set up a single "worker" account that is actually masking Multiple people/workers/family members... All a facade to the client..

I really really really think Outsourcing is a big problem on Sythe, and should have to be made more clear To clients under Sythes TOS If a job is going to be outsourced, not just agreeing that a job "may" be outsourced and then being left in the dark about some random on their account.

First offence is a TWC, second offence is another TWC etc etc because sythe Rules claim it as a TWC offence no matter how many times it is broken. Even if you lie to staff on a report about outsourcing You still get a TWC

It should be something like this which imo is still fairly lenient
1st offence: Twc, appeal in 30 days after fixing your mess
2nd offence: 6mth TWC
3rd offence: Ban/DNT

 

I thought there was already an instant TWC if you dont tell a client anyway already? @BlackBlasses

DNT for how long for the 3rd offence is the question <3

Yellow Hat

 

Support for tougher punishment. The way i see it, its so easy to stack orders and vouch farm WITH outsiurced orders LOL. Who's gonna find out?

 

Luckily discord doesnt hide "hidden" channels server side, but rather client side so with a little bit of betterdiscord plugins you can see what channels are hidden.. sadly you cant see the insides of said channels, but its an easy way to see if a server is outsourcing.. theyll have like multiple workers with a couple tickets, then 1 worker with 20+ active tickets LOL

heres an example of a service provider who only claims to outsource a couple orders! This is for 1 "worker" But noone would know because they tell their clients "worker X can start this soon!" - when in reality its just them giving to another venny, I wont publicly shame this server because they didnt lie to me when questioned about it

 

Lets not bring venezuelans into the picture. Loads are outsourced cheaply to poor folk across the globe. What grinds my gears is how easily and happily service-owners exploit this loophole in sythe;

Outsource 100 orders --> One turns bad and gets a TWC?

Outsource ANOTHER 100 orders to vouchfarm and successfully appeal the TWC because, cmon, what can the mods do to find out plus the only real measure mods could use in TWC voting is PRECISELY that: Vouch count.