[DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

Discussion in 'Denied Suggestions' started by Moonchild, Oct 6, 2019.

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[DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.
  1. Unread #1 - Oct 6, 2019 at 9:58 PM
  2. Moonchild
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    I registered my Sythe account on a personal RDP server not only because I care about my online security but because my home IP address is dynamic so it changes frequently, unlike my RDP server which I will have for years.

    I donated some dollars, gathered 10+ vouches, and then a couple of weeks later I still get put in TWC until I post a thread using a home IP address.

    Okay, so I did. Like this guy: Home IP Address
    He got his TWC removed, but I have to show my internet bill as well for some reason which is unfair:

    [​IMG]

    This is a bit extreme for many reasons. Why doesn't EVERY member on a home IP address have to do this as well then? What's different, really? Now you're asking a user to completely forfeit their security just because they care about it.

    What if I don't even have access to the internet bill because I don't pay for it but rather a friend or family member does? What sort of information do you expect the internet bill to reveal? Because as far as I know internet bills don't have IPv4 addresses listed on them, unless you want my full name and address which is definitely not happening. If it's for location, well, a digital receipt can easily be fabricated which makes the point moot.

    Solution to this problem:
    You should only put very fresh accounts without any vouches and posts on TWC. It should be removed for donors, especially if they pay with PayPal, and it should be automatically removed once you're registered for X number of days and/or make X number of posts because the entire point is to make sure the user is credible. Registering on a home IP address isn't the only way to make sure of that. Oh, and definitely don't ask users for private shit like their internet bill because that'll kill your userbase.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  3. Unread #2 - Oct 6, 2019 at 10:33 PM
  4. IGotOwned
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    Nope. No support from me. My understanding is that a large reason of the requirement to post from your home IP is to prevent ban evasion, yeah? So according to your suggestion, a vader could donate and be in the clear.

    Having to check an internet bill isn’t ideal, but it’s making the best of what we’ve got.

    Did you try to work something out other than the bill thing before you posted here? Staff are usually pretty keen on helping to figure something out in situations like yours.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  5. Unread #3 - Oct 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    This is to protect the members of the site from serial scammers/ban evaders.

    People used to get banned for not posting from their home IP so being allowed here with a removable TWC is already an extremely mild "punishment" compared to what it used to be.

    No support.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  7. Unread #4 - Oct 6, 2019 at 10:54 PM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    No support.

    As said above the punishment for this used to be much harsher.
    The safety of members on the site is paramount, and if staff need extra information such as an internet bill to ensure that you're not a ban evader then they are and should be free to request that information from you or anyone else.

    If you value your privacy so highly just keep the TWC.
     
    ^ HNCdice, Techie and zwei siegen like this.
  9. Unread #5 - Oct 6, 2019 at 11:14 PM
  10. Superfluous
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    Take it up with @Pendulum if you can't provide a bill for some reason. My guess is that you can probably just send in a heavily-edited bill that doesn't contain personal info.

    There's no need for this to be a site-wide change though.
     
    ^ HNCdice likes this.
  11. Unread #6 - Oct 6, 2019 at 11:27 PM
  12. Moonchild
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    1. All of you are big donors and don't care about this because this issue because it doesn't affect your credibility as a new seller. You don't seem to care about your privacy and security either. And why aren't any of you on TWC then? I doubt any of you shared your internet bill. I did post on a home IP address too just like you. Why are we different?

    2. If "the safety of onsite members is paramount", then why are you allowed to log into any account using a different IP address than the one it was created on without verification? Why aren't you forced to use 2FA? There's a higher chance that a high-rep member's non-2FA account gets hijacked and used to scam thousands. I bet out of the three of you, at least one of you doesn't use 2FA and/or you don't follow proper security measures for picking passwords.

    3. All of you have ignored the fact that I did post from a home IP address, like the other guy who got his TWC removed after. How come he didn't have to share his internet bill but I do even though I'm more trusted?

    4. All of you have also ignored the fact that internet bills can easily be fabricated, so what does showing an internet bill really prove if I could just download a public bill statement and modify it, or edit the HTML on my current one?

    5. Two of you are echoing "the punishment used to be much harder so be happy" off each other as a form of justification to the current system, but just because it used to be even more absurd doesn't mean it isn't currently.

    Also, there are other effective and less privacy-invasive systems you could implement to catch and deter potential scammers with a little programming effort. Although the current system is decent, it treats members like me too harshly and starts to ruin the user experience quality, and asking for internet bills is way out of line. No other forums does that.

    Outside of the RuneScape sections, the forums is already barely active as is. I have referred 5 users myself and hope to see the other forum sections grow, but it won't with these kind of expectations from your users.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  13. Unread #7 - Oct 6, 2019 at 11:55 PM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    Many people on here do care about their privacy and security, which is why I suggested you keep the TWC if you feel uncomfortable with providing the correct information to clear it. We aren't TWC because there aren't any questions surrounding the legitimacy of the home IP we posted from. Either way you're not the first person to be asked for this and I sincerely doubt you'll be the last.

    Your last point about user expectations contradicts forced 2FA, not to mention that users are more than aware that they are liable if their account is compromised and used to scam. Many donor perks like name changes require 2FA to be enabled regardless and you'd be hard pressed to find a reputable user who doesn't have it enabled because they understand how important it is to be secure.

    @zwei siegen is the only one of the three of us that doesn't have 2FA enabled currently, and I'm willing to bet its because he physically can't right now. Anyone with this minirank is using 2FA. [​IMG]

    Yes, you posted from a home IP address, but the need for further information could stem from any number of reasons. Here's a link to the thread that explains this:

    No Home IP - Trade with caution (TWC)

    This has obviously been tried before and is quite easy to detect. Any staff member can attest to this.

    I think the current system that is in place is more than fair, any deterrent or means to prevent possible mass ban evaders from scamming users is fine as long as what is required is within reason. A picture of your internet bill is well within reason. But if you disagree, as I said earlier you are more than welcome to just keep the TWC, it isn't preventing you from using the site and it protects other users.

    I'd argue that users being scammed is a much larger deterrent to site traffic/activity than an issue like yours which has cropped up maybe 10 or so times in the last 6 months.

    If you have any alternatives to the system that is currently in place or any useful additions to it that would help deter scammers, you're more than welcome to suggest them.
     
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  15. Unread #8 - Oct 7, 2019 at 1:27 AM
  16. zwei siegen
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    I have provided my ID, internet bill, and my apartment contract in the past to confirm who I am but I'm glad that you're assuming that you're the only person this has ever happened to.

    You're acting like nobody on this site is taking any security measures and I'm not sure what this has to do with the original post, we're discussing home IP TWCs not account hijacking.

    I don't know the exact procedure that the mods go through when it comes to verifying your home IP, but if you don't like how they do it stick with the TWC, they don't ask you for your information for no reason.

    Give it a try and let me know how it goes.

    If you don't like how it's done here there's plenty of other market forums, nobody is forcing you to use ours.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  17. Unread #9 - Oct 7, 2019 at 8:33 AM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    Woudln't support this, you're most likely vading a ban thats why you don't want information leaked.

    This site is secure enough for my needs NOT to use TOR / VPN
    Sythe gets hacked, all I lose is my account details.
     
  19. Unread #10 - Oct 7, 2019 at 11:40 AM
  20. ABM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    I'd actually like to hear staff response to this and this is a very valid point.
    I assume it first and last name the staff want just to check if the user is vading or perhaps they're looking for an internet company? but I assume that can be found by lookup if the ip

    Either way no support as it lowers amount vaders and scammers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  21. Unread #11 - Oct 7, 2019 at 11:45 AM
  22. Sh33dy
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    @ABM they can check if internet provider match with his ip ?


    What secuirty are you talking abaout =? Ddosing ? well you have dynamic ip so that shoudnt be problem if your ip ever gets leaked you shut off router and turn it on walla new IP [not whole just few digits but still].

    ˝ but because my home IP address is dynamic so it changes frequently, unlike my RDP server which I will have for years.˝ < and why does it matter if your ip changes =?

    No support
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  23. Unread #12 - Oct 7, 2019 at 4:18 PM
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    No support. It's to prevent ban evaders and provide safety to the legit members.
     
  25. Unread #13 - Oct 7, 2019 at 5:02 PM
  26. Degenerate73
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    No support, although the method isn't very effective as almost every company now provides dynamic IP's, it does still trap the occasional few vaders.

    I also don't see the point in internet bills, most bills are paperless these days and are all electronic meaning you can literally buy fake templates for a few bucks or even get them for free
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  27. Unread #14 - Oct 7, 2019 at 5:58 PM
  28. TySimpson
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    [DENIED] Remove TWC for non-home IP address on certain accounts.

    This won't be happening sorry. We request bills when users claim home ips as their own, yet the ip is actually from a business/work location/public place.
     
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