[Denied] Increase Punishment for Bad PMs

[Teeto]

Tired of seeing people getting impostor scammed because a $300 donor didn't bother or know about a good pm. Increase the ban to temp ban for 7 days that gets more severe for repeat offenses and a TWC after unban.

They are partly at fault for the scam because their ignorance was a major factor that caused it. If a middleman were to release funds before confirming that the other party received what they purchased and got scammed as a result would the middleman just receive a TWC?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were people self impostoring. They reap in the scam amount and all they get left with is a TWC which they can easily get rid of in a month. Also, make the PM template more noticeable. This is one good step Add proper discord template to all sections of the market

 

[Pain]

We have this suggestion literally every 2-3 months, it always gets shot down.

The punishment and accountability scales based on staff discretion and past PM offences, sometimes users are warned, sometimes their given just a twc with no liability, sometimes if its their 2nd-3rd offence their held monetarily liable for the scam and twc'd, sometimes their just held liable with no TWC,etc.

It scales based on staff discretion, theres no firmly posted "guideline" for this and there likely never will be. It's due to poor PM cases being case-by case punishment.

No support.

 

We have this suggestion literally every 2-3 months, it always gets shot down.

The punishment and accountability scales based on staff discretion and past PM offences, sometimes users are warned, sometimes their given just a twc with no liability, sometimes if its their 2nd-3rd offence their held monetarily liable for the scam and twc'd, sometimes their just held liable with no TWC,etc.

It scales based on staff discretion, theres no firmly posted "guideline" for this and there likely never will be. It's due to poor PM cases being case-by case punishment.

No support.

Not understanding your reasoning for no support; it seems your explanation for no support is the explanation that its currently done on a case by case basis? Are you saying you're happy with it remaining this way?

Because the suggestion is to enforce stricter punishment taking it away from staff discretion (and potential lenience for friends who've sent a bad pm) and having the consequences set in stone (so to speak).

Regardless, i support this suggestion - impostering is a big issue; mostly only trusted active market users are getting impostered (why imposter someone with no feedback?) and those are the users who really should know better.

If they can't be bothered to put a bit of effort in to perhaps protect their customers, let them take some sort of suspension from the market.

 

Too many people are sending bad pms and it is inevitable more people will get imposter scammed. A twc for a month for a bad pm isn’t hurting anybody or teaching them any lessons. Support it as it is always going to be a problem when there is minimal consequences at best.

 

I support, I have seen a lot of reputable members not doing PM's correctly. I believe that making the punishment heavier would make the situation a lot better.

 

I’m a big advocate in making sure PMs are correctly sent. I think TWCs are a good punishment but what else would be a fitting punishment? We can’t have them refund but we can’t permanently ban them. Maybe a longer temp ban?

 

[Teeto]

We have this suggestion literally every 2-3 months, it always gets shot down.

The punishment and accountability scales based on staff discretion and past PM offences, sometimes users are warned, sometimes their given just a twc with no liability, sometimes if its their 2nd-3rd offence their held monetarily liable for the scam and twc'd, sometimes their just held liable with no TWC,etc.

It scales based on staff discretion, theres no firmly posted "guideline" for this and there likely never will be. It's due to poor PM cases being case-by case punishment.

No support.

How are bad PMs case by case? If you send a bad pm which leads to someone scammed you should be punished accordingly. They don't look at the amount scammed, if you included one Discord ID but not the other, etc. If you scam 10m or 10b you will still be punished by the same temp ban for three months and permanent DNT. The only difference is the amount you pay back and how hard pardoning will be.

The punishment should be the same (I'm pretty sure it already is you're just spewing shit out of your mouth).
Your reasoning has nothing to do with my suggestion. If it's dealt case by case we can't up the punishment for it? It scales off staff discretion based on the amount of offenses? That's what I'm suggesting.

 

[Seattle]

I mean the buyer should be more specific I think personally when asking for a pm.

Like a screenshot / who to trade in game etc.

 

I personally think this is a great idea. The reason being is because people can send bad PMs, get a TWC and then just continue to do the same bad business practice whilst just having their TWC extended.

It seems like a TWC is just a slap on the wrist. I'm sure there are lots of traders who have received TWCs for bad pms, disputed it and got it removed after a month and then they go back to old habits which should not be a thing.

As @Hahanerd said I think that an extended temp ban would be fair however what about a market ban for a fixed period of time. So for the first offence it would be a TWC, second offence would be a 7 day market ban, third offence would be a 1 month market ban and then 4th offence would be a permanent market ban/perm ban - this is an example however I think a system like this could definitely work for consistent offenders.

 

[Rodman]

Completely agree. seeing too many people become victims because of someones poor approach.

 

I’m a big advocate in making sure PMs are correctly sent. I think TWCs are a good punishment but what else would be a fitting punishment? We can’t have them refund but we can’t permanently ban them. Maybe a longer temp ban?

2 week temp ban followed by a month TWC should kick everyone into gear alright

 

Sending a 'bad PM' resulted in the customer losing out on their money. If you read my post above yours, I mentioned how easily a highly vouched user could scam someone, I belive repayment would be the way to go and maybe teach people who wish to become traders as a living to actually follow professional trading practices.

I'd like to hear your response on what I've said, in regards to my post above and this.

Just because it resulted in lost money doesn’t they can be forced to refund as it is impossible to prove their involvement. But with the devaluation of a twc that they will 100% get removed after a month it does mean things need to change in some capacity. Most big traders laugh and will even admit it does nothing to their business or sales and will obviously get it removed once they are eligible. I just don’t know of a good way to increase the punishment that will cause the least amount of problems for staff members.

 

Supporting this. Increasing the punishment would literally make all the trades sit up instead of slouching.
It wouldn't do any harm to anyone anyways implementing this, except for the bad trades who aren't doing good PM's.

 

Didn't read but i spoke to video about this once and i feel like if it's a trash pm like "it's me" or something along those lines they should be forced to refund. If it's some trash that at least has like chat logs or both discord/skype IDs then twc. But the trash that just say it's me and give no chat logs or IDs should be forced to refund. Would make people think twice before being retards.

 

We cant force people to send certain PM's, It's a free market. If you choose to do business with a jackass that's your own fault. I thought when we moved on from skype this kind of shit would stop. Guess we were all wrong. I just tell people to come to voice and send the info via sythe PM. Btc address's etc. I cant be asked to do all the stupid shit you guys want.

 

I think TWC is enough if the conf. PM provided a way to differentiate between himself and the scammer

example: conf. PM between skype users. they put the sellers and buyers skype correctly but no chat logs. the buyer then claims they got scammed. The chat logs might of made a difference but its a fact the buyer didnt pay attention to the correct skype usernames in the PM, and skype usernames cannot be changed. TWC


Now on the other hand lets talk about discord. We all know scammers can literally make themselves identical when trying to imposter by having the same name and numbers using different font which looks identical. For an average buyer, the man in the middle scam is hard to see through. Unique IDs are the only sure way to be protected as well as paying attention to the chat logs.

example: Lets say a seller provides discord IDs, the trade, and chat logs. They DO NOT provide unique IDs and the buyer gets scammed. I would say in this case they should be held responsible for the money lost IF the chat logs were very similar. In this case they can cover the money lost OR face a 2 week ban and 1 month TWC after. If the chat logs were very different then just a TWC as that is a way to differentiate.


This topic is just tough in general as it is extremely hard to draw these lines as there can be many different situations. The whole point of a confirmation PM is to make sure youre talking to the correct person, so if the person sending the confirmation PM has not provided any info to prove that, then they should be held responsible. (example: your discord cant prove its you as someone else can have the same exact one visibly)

This has come up many times though and nothing changes so we will see.

 

I sort of support because I should have been banned instead of TWC imo. I didn't know about discord being case sensitive and had the wrong one posted on my profile which led to someone more and likely imposter scamming themselves to try to get me to pay out lol. but in my defense, the stickies are only in one section of the market which I do not use. I say put the stickies in every market and make it a ban for a month or whatever + repayment

 

[Teeto]

By making them repay and become professional traders if they wish to continue business on this site.

Pretty much the trader pays for his mistake not the buyer

 

[Teeto]

I mean the buyer should be more specific I think personally when asking for a pm.

Like a screenshot / who to trade in game etc.

Buyers aren’t supposed to be specific. It’s the traders responsibility to send a correct PM especially when a template exists

 

[Drayfious]

I agree a bad PM has no excuses when there are clear guidelines in place and it takes so little time.