Black Lives Matter

[tMoon]

Anyway, another thing I think about the BLM is that it's a really small issue in comparison to many other issues we have in our society. People put it in the public spotlight, while bigger issues fly under the radar. If for no other reason, I see it as a bad thing because of that.

Something being a "small" issue is no reason to ignore it, definitely if it is an issue prevalent throughout the entire country and many people would argue it is hardly a small issue. It deals with loss of human life paired alongside that issues such as domestic terrorism are huge concerns yet largely never occur. Ex: More toddlers have shot and killed adults in the U.S. than individuals have been killed in (religious extremist) terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

/I note religious extremism due to Dylan Roof's terrorist attack that killed 9 black individuals. Largely ignored as a terrorist attack, but it was; however, it was homegrown and had nothing to do with the likes of the IS.

 

[Program]

Something being a "small" issue is no reason to ignore it, definitely if it is an issue prevalent throughout the entire country and many people would argue it is hardly a small issue. It deals with loss of human life paired alongside that issues such as domestic terrorism are huge concerns yet largely never occur. Ex: More toddlers have shot and killed adults in the U.S. than individuals have been killed in (religious extremist) terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

/I note religious extremism due to Dylan Roof's terrorist attack that killed 9 black individuals. Largely ignored as a terrorist attack, but it was; however, it was homegrown and had nothing to do with the likes of the IS.

Nowhere did I say ignore it. Don't put words in my mouth. I was saying it's hogging the spotlight while bigger issues that may even concern more loss of life aren't getting the attention this subject is.

 

[tMoon]

Nowhere did I say ignore it. Don't put words in my mouth. I was saying it's hogging the spotlight while bigger issues that may even concern more loss of life aren't getting the attention this subject is.

Removing it from attention implies throwing it on the back-burner and effectively giving it less attention and arguably ignoring it

Sure, there are plenty of bigger issues such as the Syrian conflict, but the general American public is effected by little-to-no amount. If "bigger issues" are being ignored, it's likely due to them (among other things) not being bigger issues (at least to the public), there being no public interest, overall apathy with said issues, or the inability to improve on such issues. Also, I wouldn't mind some examples of "bigger issues" you would rather be covered; you are being quite vague.

 

[Program]

Removing it from attention implies throwing it on the back-burner and effectively giving it less attention and arguably ignoring it

Sure, there are plenty of bigger issues such as the Syrian conflict, but the general American public is effected by little-to-no amount. If "bigger issues" are being ignored, it's likely due to them (among other things) not being bigger issues (at least to the public), there being no public interest, overall apathy with said issues, or the inability to improve on such issues. Also, I wouldn't mind some examples of "bigger issues" you would rather be covered; you are being quite vague.

Lol? Less attention =/= ignoring. Not even arguably.

Drugs. Human trafficking. Mass shootings. Terrorism. Global warming. etc etc etc.

I see more on all the media about BLM and LGBT and whatnot than any of these issues and others lately. In comparison, BLM is a way lesser issue.

 

1) I'm not sure exactly what you are saying but I think it is highly unlikely that the pattern of police violence has changed so dramatically in the last 5 years that the 20%+ difference the Harvard study found is invalid.

2) I was not talking about unarmed people because BLM is not just about unarmed people. I was not using my example to prove my point. I was using to show why it was useless to prove a point.

3) He is held up as the poster child by BLM even though the cops actions were entirely justified. They are literally saying his life is more important than the cop's because he was black and the cop was white. I see the support of Brown has entirely grounded in racism and black superiority.

4) I disagree with their premise so I would obviously disagree with the actions they take based on that premise.

5) We aren't going to agree because we clearly have some fundamental differences in what we consider racist.

1. When averages have stabilized in the sense that the addition of new numbers will hardly have any significance in the average total itself, the newer numbers become absent.

Example: The average height in Ms. Green's classroom is 179.5 cm (total amount of kids in classroom is 28). Two new kids were added to the classroom with an average height of 139.2 cm. If I were to simply just add the two averages without accounting for the number of kids in Ms. Green's classroom prior to the addition of two kids it would come out to 159.35, and if I do account for the kids in the classroom, it comes out to 177.6. Hardly a difference.

For stabilized averages to be in concert with the addition of newer numbers, the numbers would need to be overwhelming.

2. I didn't only give statistics about unarmed black people getting shot by police. You tried to prove a point by not proving a point? That sounds logical.

3. You can also justify that his actions were poor in method. The best outcome would be for both parties to still be alive, and that wasn't the case.

4. It's not a matter of opinion. You said they only care about black people getting shot by police when it's much larger than that. Systematic oppression doesn't just account for the police department.

5. We're going to disagree because the definition of racist is not applicable to your examples.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up black-on-black violence. Black Lives Matter is specifically against police violence against blacks. You might as well ask why they don't protest sickle-cell anemia (which disproportionally affects blacks).

Personally, it seems pretty clear that there IS a pattern of institutionalized violence against blacks, so I don't have a problem with them protesting it. Why would I?

 

Tomi Lahren to Colin Kaepernick: "If This Country Disgusts You So Much, Leave"

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1063123907114129

SIT THE FUCK DOWN IT"S OVER PEOPLE IT'S OVER GO HOME

Not everything she says hits it out of the ballpark but there is a point to be made. Ofc everything she says is wrong though if you just read all the most upvoted comments on her page for the video

 

[Shredderbeam]

Tomi Lahren to Colin Kaepernick: "If This Country Disgusts You So Much, Leave"

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1063123907114129

SIT THE FUCK DOWN IT"S OVER PEOPLE IT'S OVER GO HOME

That's a terrible argument, and not exactly a novel one. What, you can't criticize America? If somebody has a complaint, they should just leave?

Also, her remark that "your white parents adopted you, so therefore white people can't have caused problems" doesn't make any sense, at all. White people aren't a single monolithic hivemind.

She also asks for evidence, which I can give you: Justice Department Announces Findings of Investigation into Baltimore Police Department

She also has loved ones fighting overseas for his right? No, sitting in Korea/Japan/Afghanistan does nothing for any Americans rights.

What a moron.

 

That's a terrible argument, and not exactly a novel one. What, you can't criticize America? If somebody has a complaint, they should just leave?

Also, her remark that "your white parents adopted you, so therefore white people can't have caused problems" doesn't make any sense, at all. White people aren't a single monolithic hivemind.

She also asks for evidence, which I can give you: Justice Department Announces Findings of Investigation into Baltimore Police Department

She also has loved ones fighting overseas for his right? No, sitting in Korea/Japan/Afghanistan does nothing for any Americans rights.

What a moron.

She didn't say because white parents adopted him white people can't cause problems...

She was saying maybe he should have a little bit more of a better outlook on white people especially considering the parents that raised him were white.

And you can't say Kaepernick isn't a racist in this case because all you have to do is check his twitter feed and half of his retweets are stuff that spews that "white men are evil" shit.

Gyazo - e771b88d82b0ace7405910184115877c.png

Yeah it's standard practice and this is why he did what he did in order to better the BLM. I honestly can not understand how so many people speak all this stuff about BLM when they can't even admit they're racist themselves. In Kap's case a lot of people are arguing stuff like well sitting during the national anthem doesn't make you a racist! And they're right and idgaf about that but all I had to do was look at his Twitter and it's obvious he's a racist accusing other racists.

She's also not saying you should leave the country if you criticize America...

She's saying his thought process is messed up in regards to HOW he obviously thinks about America (more like white people) and criticizes it. Finding everything you can find wrong with white people regarding racist actions like Kap and using that as an excuse to forward your own movement is racist, especially when you're somebody like him who is a famous NFL player that has many fans (or used to at least when he was good) and he uses that as propaganda.

Yes I'm aware of the Baltimore shootings and I'm not trying to defend it in any way to be clear. I'm not trying to say "oh those white cops were innocent it wasn't their fault!" and she doesn't defend that in the video either. I believe she's addressing the mentality of "Everything is so wrong in America" that seems to be common among many people in the BLM and how ridiculous that is.

 

[Shredderbeam]

She didn't say because white parents adopted him white people can't cause problems...

She was saying maybe he should have a little bit more of a better outlook on white people especially considering the parents that raised him were white.

She asked him "how dare you blame white people", then immediately called his attention to his white parents. Again, "white people cause problems" does not equal "all white people are monsters".

And you can't say Kaepernick isn't a racist in this case because all you have to do is check his twitter feed and half of his retweets are stuff that spews that "white men are evil" shit.

Gyazo - e771b88d82b0ace7405910184115877c.png

Yeah it's standard practice and this is why he did what he did in order to better the BLM. I honestly can not understand how so many people speak all this stuff about BLM when they can't even admit they're racist themselves. In Kap's case a lot of people are arguing stuff like well sitting during the national anthem doesn't make you a racist! And they're right and idgaf about that but all I had to do was look at his Twitter and it's obvious he's a racist accusing other racists.

That doesn't say "white men are evil", at all. That simply says that this sort of stuff is the norm, not the exception.

She's also not saying you should leave the country if you criticize America...

She's saying his thought process is messed up in regards to HOW he obviously thinks about America (more like white people) and criticizes it. Finding everything you can find wrong with white people regarding racist actions like Kap and using that as an excuse to forward your own movement is racist, especially when you're somebody like him who is a famous NFL player that has many fans (or used to at least when he was good) and he uses that as propaganda.

No, she literally said, "if this country disgusts you so much, leave".

Yes I'm aware of the Baltimore shootings and I'm not trying to defend it in any way to be clear. I'm not trying to say "oh those white cops were innocent it wasn't their fault!" and she doesn't defend that in the video either. I believe she's addressing the mentality of "Everything is so wrong in America" that seems to be common among many people in the BLM and how ridiculous that is.

She didn't say anything about the general mentality, she asked for evidence that black men are being murdered - in short, evidence that the police are biased against blacks. What I posted is evidence.

 

[kmjt]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up black-on-black violence. Black Lives Matter is specifically against police violence against blacks. You might as well ask why they don't protest sickle-cell anemia (which disproportionally affects blacks).

Do you agree that there is more black on black violence than say white on white?

 

[SuF]

1. When averages have stabilized in the sense that the addition of new numbers will hardly have any significance in the average total itself, the newer numbers become absent.

Example: The average height in Ms. Green's classroom is 179.5 cm (total amount of kids in classroom is 28). Two new kids were added to the classroom with an average height of 139.2 cm. If I were to simply just add the two averages without accounting for the number of kids in Ms. Green's classroom prior to the addition of two kids it would come out to 159.35, and if I do account for the kids in the classroom, it comes out to 177.6. Hardly a difference.

For stabilized averages to be in concert with the addition of newer numbers, the numbers would need to be overwhelming.

2. I didn't only give statistics about unarmed black people getting shot by police. You tried to prove a point by not proving a point? That sounds logical.

3. You can also justify that his actions were poor in method. The best outcome would be for both parties to still be alive, and that wasn't the case.

4. It's not a matter of opinion. You said they only care about black people getting shot by police when it's much larger than that. Systematic oppression doesn't just account for the police department.

5. We're going to disagree because the definition of racist is not applicable to your examples.

1) I'm not following your math. How did you get 159.35? That number makes no sense. If you add the two children the average based on my calculations drops to 176.813.

But that is not a fair comparison. You are claiming a few things:

1) Violence against blacks as a percentage has gotten worse over time.
2) Violence in the last 5 years has gotten significantly worse

If we ignore #1 then 1/3 of the data is coming from the new data. A fairer example would be adding 14 kids with an average height of 139.2 which results in an average height of 166.06. If we don't ignore #1 and assume that we are getting more and more short kids over time we should add in even more short kids. Let's just say 40% instead of 33.33% which means adding about 19 kids with an average height of 139.2 which results in an average of 163.21. That's a huge effect on the data.

So if we apply this to our real example in order for blacks to be 20% less likely to be shot and for your idea that blacks in the last five years have gotten much more likely to be shot than whites the first 10 years of the study would have had to have seen blacks to be 40 or 50% less likely to be shot than whites and that seems absolutely ridiculous.

Even without doing the math I think we can assume a peer reviewed study would have thought of this and would have checked how the percentage changed over time.

3) BLM blames the police for their justified shooting of Brown. If Brown hadn't attacked a cop he wouldn't be dead. Racism isn't the issue here. Thugs attacking cops is the issue here.

4) I do not believe there is any evidence that blacks are systematically targeted for death by police. Their premise is idiotic so of course I do not support their actions based on that premise.

5) I do not believe it is worth discussing what is racist and what is not so I agreed to disagree so that's that.

 

[SuF]

Do you agree that there is more black on black violence than say white on white?

Sorry to jump in but I don't even think this is a worthwhile question to be asking. Violence is not a race issue. Violence is a socioeconomic issue primarily and a cultural issue secondarily.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Do you agree that there is more black on black violence than say white on white?

I haven't seen any numbers, but I'm sure that's the case. What's the relevance?

 

[kmjt]

Sorry to jump in but I don't even think this is a worthwhile question to be asking. Violence is not a race issue. Violence is a socioeconomic issue primarily and a cultural issue secondarily.

I haven't seen any numbers, but I'm sure that's the case. What's the relevance?

You are kind of implying that black on black violence has no correlation to police on black brutality. If you went into two neighbourhoods; one more violent than the other -- would you not feel more tense and on guard (as a police officer) in the more violent neighbourhood? If you know gun violence is high in a certain area you would probably be more on edge and more likely to jump the trigger. Do you agree that if (theoretically) black on black violence no longer existed, these police brutality cases would significantly decrease?

 

[Shredderbeam]

You are kind of implying that black on black violence has no correlation to police on black brutality. If you went into two neighbourhoods; one more violent than the other -- would you not feel more tense and on guard (as a police officer) in the more violent neighbourhood? If you know gun violence is high in a certain area you would probably be more on edge and more likely to jump the trigger. Do you agree that if (theoretically) black on black violence no longer existed, these police brutality cases would significantly decrease?

I would probably feel more tense and on guard, sure, but do you have any evidence that that's the cause of police brutality towards blacks, rather than racism?

 

[Sun]

I hate the movement. Firstly they are either blatantly racist or just stupid. They go on about how people don't think black people's lives matter when clearly their lives are the only ones anyone cares about. Far more white people are killed by police every year but you never hear about it on the news because no one cares. People actually care when black people die, for some reason. They also seem to be infested by black supremacists who hate white people as well as thugs who just want to attack people and break stuff. It's an awful movement that needs to be wiped out.

Are those white people being killed because of their whiteness, though? This movement is specific to the deaths by police because of their blackness. Yes, all police brutality and abuse is absurd and should come to an end. Yes, all lives matter. There is no invisible or implied "Only" in front of "Black Lives Matter;" that has been interpreted by confused and brainwashed folk who think they figured out what they were really trying to say, when in reality, they already said what they were trying to say: that black lives matter, too. Saying police lives matter doesn't mean that fire fighter lives don't.

Just because there are people who are ignorant and stupid and may even loot/commit crimes in times of high distress in the black communities, doesn't mean that they represent the Black Lives Matter movement. The Black Lives Matter movement is not a movement voiced by any and all black people. Let me be clear: A black man who happens to be psycho and decides he is going to kill a cop because of all the recent killings of unarmed black men, women, and children, doesn't mean he represents the Black Lives Matter movement; he is not what defines the movement just because he is black. Any misunderstandings that have been created through the media and whiteness denying the fact that, yes, black lives are taken due to their blackness, are the problem. I agree that there has been a lot of issues revolving around the BLM movement, but I do not think that was the initial or current intent of the actual good-willed people behind the BLM movement. I think a lot of idiocy has caused for a lot of confusion and misinformation, and it is being turned back on the BLM movement due to it being an easy target.

It is no doubt that America has a lot of problems regarding racism whether it be national or personal. The men and women in offices and occupations of high esteem and power are men and women who were alive when segregation was still a thing, when black people had to go to the back of kitchens to eat because they weren't allowed to eat or even go inside. These minds corrupt and poison the minds of younger people, and want to say that it is all the black man's fault, when the whole point in the first place was that black folk are being treated unfairly due to their blackness. That is racism. The root is in racism and the deep denial that racism still exists.

 

1) I'm not following your math. How did you get 159.35? That number makes no sense. If you add the two children the average based on my calculations drops to 176.813.

But that is not a fair comparison. You are claiming a few things:

1) Violence against blacks as a percentage has gotten worse over time.
2) Violence in the last 5 years has gotten significantly worse

If we ignore #1 then 1/3 of the data is coming from the new data. A fairer example would be adding 14 kids with an average height of 139.2 which results in an average height of 166.06. If we don't ignore #1 and assume that we are getting more and more short kids over time we should add in even more short kids. Let's just say 40% instead of 33.33% which means adding about 19 kids with an average height of 139.2 which results in an average of 163.21. That's a huge effect on the data.

So if we apply this to our real example in order for blacks to be 20% less likely to be shot and for your idea that blacks in the last five years have gotten much more likely to be shot than whites the first 10 years of the study would have had to have seen blacks to be 40 or 50% less likely to be shot than whites and that seems absolutely ridiculous.

Even without doing the math I think we can assume a peer reviewed study would have thought of this and would have checked how the percentage changed over time.

3) BLM blames the police for their justified shooting of Brown. If Brown hadn't attacked a cop he wouldn't be dead. Racism isn't the issue here. Thugs attacking cops is the issue here.

4) I do not believe there is any evidence that blacks are systematically targeted for death by police. Their premise is idiotic so of course I do not support their actions based on that premise.

5) I do not believe it is worth discussing what is racist and what is not so I agreed to disagree so that's that.

1. Average Calculator (Mean)

Enter the two numbers in the data set and you will get your answer.

Note: This was to show the difference between stabilized and unstabilized values.

2. That makes no sense. In order for blacks to be more likely to be shot in the past 5 years, the study from 10 years prior would have needed blacks to be 30% less likely to be shot? What backwards logic is this?

3. Whether racism was the issue in that particular case is up in the air. I don't believe the end result was a direct cause of racism, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that his actions could have been influenced by who the offender was. The best outcome would have been for both parties to be still alive. Having reviewed the case many times, shooting wasn't the only option. Police departments teach officers to shoot first, and it doesn't help that a subconscious bias in terms of cautious approach based on the appearance of someone can be involved. That is the problem.

4. While I do think saying blacks are targeted for death is a long stretch, I do believe they are targeted in a general sense. Stop and frisk, use of force, and traffic stops are all put into question.

5. Your idea of what is racist differs from the actual definition. Can you provide an example of how BLM is racist?

 

[kmjt]

I would probably feel more tense and on guard, sure, but do you have any evidence that that's the cause of police brutality towards blacks, rather than racism?

There is no one cause for police brutality. There will always be racism so there will always be a few racist cops regardless. I just believe that the root cause and the bigger issue is blacks portraying themselves in a negative way to the police. There are black victims being misrepresented by the actions of others in their community. There are movements for black on black violence but unfortunately they don't get near the attention that BLM does which is unfortunate. But BLM is more profitable for the media so they go with it.

 

[Shredderbeam]

There is no one cause for police brutality. There will always be racism so there will always be a few racist cops regardless. I just believe that the root cause and the bigger issue is blacks portraying themselves in a negative way to the police. There are black victims being misrepresented by the actions of others in their community. There are movements for black on black violence but unfortunately they don't get near the attention that BLM does which is unfortunate. But BLM is more profitable for the media so they go with it.

That's interesting. Why do you think that how blacks portray themselves to police has a bigger impact on police brutality than racism? I asked you earlier if you had any evidence.