Would Obama be our President if Bush didn't screw up so bad?

Do you think the voters of America would have voted McCain over Obama if Bush didn't screw this country up so bad (I'm talking the amount of jobs lost, being at 'war', real estate dead, ...pretty much whole economy itself). I'm tired of people saying Obama was only voted next President because he is black and one of the younger ones running, because its not. But if Bush was to do a good job over the past 8 years, do you think the country would have chosen McCain (Republican) over Obama? I personally believe Obama and the Democrat party will really turn this country around, and that even if Bush (too late) was to do a good job, this man would be our next President; Its time for change! What do you guys think?

 

52% or so, (can't remember.. it was on Fox News surveys..)
said their major reasons for voting for Obama was because of Bush.

So, I think McCain would of been our President, if Bush wasn't ours in 2000-2008.


EDIT:

My dad will be fired the second Obama enacts his "spread the wealth plan".

And many, many, MANY, other people will be fired aswell.

It hurts the larger corporations, means they have to fire people so they don't start getting less profit.

 

I agree, Obama wouldn't have even made it farther than the primaries. It took a fuck-up as bad as Bush to get Americans to seek such drastic change.

..I understand that makes you angry... You have every reason to be.

But at who?
Is your anger misplaced? Why are you angry at Obama? Why not the huge corporation who is firing your Dad so they won't see a cut in profits?
Your angry at Obama because he is punishing the very same corporation.

Don't they need to be punished for that kind of behavior? I think so. Your dad is a perfect case for my point.

Edit: When your dad gets fired from the evil corporation, Obama's middle-class tax relief will keep your family afloat.

 

If the percentage that LegitNamesCo said is true, then McCain may have won. Although I'm not American, it seems that America has a history of voting Republican more than voting Democrats.

 

Good observation!

hmm... Conservative media source?

 

I don't think you can ask this question. Honestly, there are two main reasons Obama got elected.

1) Bullshit Economy Plan. Would the economy have turned to shit if it John Kerry, not Bush? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is, it did - and retarded Americans thought Obama > McCain for the economy. Utter bullshit.

2) Guilt. White people voted because they were afraid of being called racists. Black people voted because they thought Obama was the man. Is this Bush's fault? No.

However, the popular vote was actually mad close, so maybe McCain would have won the popular vote if not for Bush - tons of people didn't want another "Republican" <-- another bullshit term - but electorally, I really don't think it would have made a huge difference. Obama did better with his bullshit campaign in the swing states. Yay for a draft and mandatory community service?
/thread.

 

I think your right on #1, dead wrong on #2.
Nobody knows what you mark down in that booth- guilt is not a factor. You can lie if avoiding the racist label means that much to you.

(edit for grammar)

 

When my dad gets fired, and Boeing (example..) runs into the ground, and all the larger corporations leave, (which is exactly what happened in Argentina when "spreading the wealth" was introduced..) there will be no money to fund the taxes, because there will be no jobs to help the corporations to make the profit to pay the taxes.

And on the sidenote:

My moms 401K is being nudged into, and she makes less than 50k a year.
Nobody is immune?

 

Then it'll be an apocalypse... ramble, ramble, ramble.
Yes, we know- Obama is the end of the World.

No- Government has been bailing big business out for decades, and I don't see an end in sight.

 

Which is why Boeing lays off hundreds every year?

 

Which is why Boeing still exists? I rest my case. Big business goes up and down on the charts, but they don't go off.

GM, for example has been whining about 'going under' for a decade. They're still pumping out cars...

edit: err.. Sorry for derailing your thread Cody. >.<

 

LegitNamesCo; could you go into more about Boeing? My dad just got his job back there a week ago after being on strike the past 2+ months. I haven't read the new contract, but my dad told me some of the stuff that's going to be going on now that the union finally made this deal. And like Wendy said, large businesses/corporations always go up and down on the charts, but rarely you see any go all the way off.

 

Yes, but many white Americans do not have a REASON for voting for Obama. They're just like "I think he'll be good for our country because of the change he brings" without actually knowing what change he's talking about. I'm pretty sure when they meant change, they didn't think that meant a proposal to make community service mandatory through high school, and make taxpayers pay the 4,000 dollars of tuition that college students can save through doing community service.

Yes, there is voter anonymity, but don't you feel that subconsciously, white Americans wanted to avoid the whole "racism is huge in America" tag that was so prevalent in the 18th, 19th, and some of the 20th centuries? Don't you feel like some people had fear that America would once again go into a mini-civil war? What's your reason for supporting Obama?

 

Race may have had something to do with his election (the historic turn-out from minority voters, for example), but white subconscious fear of racism? I think you may be speaking from a personal standpoint. The election outcome is the only proof I need to be sure. Civil war? Come on.. Crazies from all sides and races were warning voters it would be inevitable, still I see no race wars. People voted Obama in- which means they weren't buying it either. Why would whites vote Obama in based on fear of black retribution? That's silly. I'll go as far as to say I think some ignorant Americans were excited about the possibility of a race war (most likely the same Americans who continue to spread fear and doubt concerning Obama's presidency).

I never said Obama was the messiah, I never said he has all the answers, but I think its evident that he has the determination to seek the right answers, and the fortitude to do what is right for America right now, and to secure the future welfare of the American people- not just the name and reputation of our country.

 

Fair enough. So you don't feel *at all* that many white voters who didn't like either candidate, and were too ignorant to do research on RP/RN, would just have that *slight* edge to vote for Obama, simply because they didn't want to feel like race *may* just cause him the election? IDK, but I feel it may have definitely had a small impact.

And at least we see eye to eye on the race issue, but I feel race had more to do with it than people may at first think. I think race may have HELPED Obama substantially, to be honest. If you think about it, he has almost no qualifications - he hasn't done SHIT for this country, he's just a man with a *bullshit, overpropagandized, stretched* plan, so to speak.

 

Obama hasn't done 'shit'?

http://obama.senate.gov/votes/

Scroll thru those and get back to me in a few hours.

 

How could race not affect it? Didn't you hear about black panthers group and others at voting stations?

 

I agree race did affect it but also Obama was playing a cheap card he focused on talking about helping the littler guy and abusing the bigger guy, and how many littler guys are in this world? quite a few.

But, I think that if Bush didn't mess up so badly, Obama would have just played another cheap card to win the election.

 

That's not him personally taking the initiative to do shit. He was the senator of Illinois for what, half a year? Let's see...voting to severely modify 2nd ammendment...hmm...not voting for half the issues...hmm...IDK dude, he's sat in a chair for half a year - I'm sure most senators (now I don't have any evidence of this, but I'm assuming) would have just as much stuff as him. But honestly, w/e. Race obviously had a huge impact on it, much more than his political [retarded] ideas.

 

Are you saying McCain didn't play any cheap cards? How about... Sarah Palin for starters. Or maybe it was that vicious smear campaign?

Politicians play dirty. All of them. Obama didn't play any cheap cards that any other politician in his place would not have. Although race turned out to work in his favor- my point is he did not exploit it.