[APPROVED/REVIEW] Change to Name Sales

My point is that if you're a name seller, you should know how to transfer names. A random person would not be able to snipe it from you if done correctly. Happy to prove this if anybody wants.

 

Hello Milotic! I have finally finished training Herblore and therefore, as promised, will now proceed to contribute!

First up, I'll say that of course I'm all for eradicating scammers and that name sales, alongside a couple other biggies, is definitely a section that needs attention asap. However, do I think this is a reasonable/viable solution? I honestly don't.

At the end of the day, the scams mentioned above involve someone losing a name or their gp. Let's assume that the name will always get sniped - forcing name traders to move the name themselves will not solve this, but merely shift the loss onto the 'shop' owner every single time. Of course, people with a good rep can abuse this, like the examples you have provided. However, lets flip your scenarios on their axes and all of a sudden Jimmy the cute newcomer/noob approaches NameSeller69 to sell his nice name and oh would you look at that? He's running his name grabber/autoclicker etc. and now the name seller is left with nothing but their dick in their hand.

Sure, you can argue all you want that name sellers should be competent in moving names without issues, but the fact is we can't be 100%. As @Zero mentioned earlier (and Bus, despite putting his point across with all of the grace of a complete nugget), as far as most people know, only you and Alice have a method that is seemingly flawless for transferring names, and you've made it clear that it even goes to the extent of requiring bug abuse (could of just been joking, idk) and that you'd never share the method (understandable, not having a go at you for that). I'll be the first to admit that I have fumbled names, and I know several others that have, but I can also say that, given the time it took me between clients, they must have been grabbed within less than a second or two - expecting us to get around this with no official system from Jagex, or 'trade secret' is unrealistic and in my opinion it's unfair to pin that blame on us just because we're the 'shop'.

I'm 100% up for making it mandatory to educate users and warn them adequately of the risks - this is something I already do and actually, despite me literally pushing for them to use a transfer service, many people turn the option down and claim they know the risks and are fine trying it themselves. At the end of the day, I'd say as long as we make the risks crystal clear and both parties are happy with the terms, then that should be enough. Like in many other sections like RSPS gold trading, if there has been no warning and a name is compromised then by all means put that on the name shop owner.

On a (kinda) separate note - could also make a list of names to stay away from that 100% belong to said scammers, as well as other names with a shady/not so great history and refer newcomers to that. Might be difficult to keep up with or maintain at times but I'm more than happy to do so if others want it.

Spoiler: TL;DR

 

I’ve spent a bit of time and here’s what I think is a good outline for what this change should be: I mostly agree with it with one condition.

If you run a store, or have an active post attempting to trade for or to receive a name, you must offer transfer of the name at your responsibility if requested. If you’re uncomfortable offering the service yourself, you are required to contract someone to perform the transfer. Should the transfer be unsuccessful and the transferer does not pay out, you’re liable to refund and the transferer is liable to refund you. Transfer services are given a reasonable amount of time, say 7 Days, to complete the transfer. Should the intent for the purchase of the account to be to keep the name on the account it was on before the sale, then there is no requirement to offer a transfer at any time after the sale.*

* this is for protection. If someone wants to use the account and then comes back months later asking you to transfer it, you should not be liable to do so as it wasn’t the agreed upon deal and you do not know if the person is trying to steal it from you or is setting you up in any way.

I have a few problems though as this leaves loopholes:

1. If you don’t have a post but often buy/sell names, is there a threshold to which you are regarded as a trader who would fall under this rule? If so, what’s the threshold?
2. If two people who fall under this rule trade, who is liable?
3. If they have a post but have never bought/sold a name, do they fall under this rule?

 

I think the names sales section as a whole should be closed down completely thus forcing all of you to go outside

 

I don't understand. How can he run off with the gp? As a new nameseller you should never give the name first. Let a middleman hold the cash and boom, problem solved.

Am I missing something here?

 

Middleman’s don’t commonly happen with routine name transfers. Similarly, a lot of middleman’s won’t middleman name transfers due to how ugly the trades can go even with a middleman

 

That's only because of the current system. If the suggested system would take its place, the middleman nor the buyer would have any risk, and therefore it would expand middleman services.

 

We had such a list and it was disallowed due to the fact that names can hange hands so easily and so often, so we are not allowed to “blacklist” a name even when the same scammer owns it for months/years and repeatedly scams with it

 

I haven't counted exactly, but I've sold ~50 names in the past 3 weeks. Not one of them was sniped and my buyers have done the transfer themselves, some new buyers, some experienced ones. What seems to be the problem that everyone else is having? The way that things are running now seem to be going smooth as they always have been for me. Maybe the problem exists within the sellers and not the process? I'm not trying to brag, but I've developed my own community of buyers who refuse to buy elsewhere because of how easy and secure it is to purchase from me in a traditional manor without having to worry about their names being sniped.

All of these process change suggestions are logical to a degree and I can respect that some of you are coming up with ideas that might work, I just think that with these suggestions its over complicating a process that can be simplified so much more than not.

 

When you obtain most of your names for free by them 'expiring', that's usually because they aren't desirable enough to keep... nevermind snipe and risk losing a reputation for. Not a dig at you, just saying maybe you're not selling the most desirable names sometimes if you're literally admittedly getting them for free.

 

Honestly it's a good suggestion. The same thing could be said about those who are against this suggestion.

"He's against it because he wants to snipe someone eventually." You can't deny it, because what IF in the future you get a scam report against you for a name that is worth 2b (random) and the buyer got "sniped" but he can't prove it? What happens then?

The seller should, in my opinion, always carry responsibility.

 

I agree that the way name sales work is dumb as hell. But isn't that why your name moving service exists?

It's like the same reason people get scammed because they chose not to use a good middleman.

 

I'm saying I shouldn't have to offer that service, I can't be bothered most of the time. If you choose to sell names, it makes sense that you should ensure your buyer gets what they pay for without the need for myself, or anybody else to offer that service.

 

Recently Sold a name for 2B, another for 700m, another for 400m, another for 400m. Neither were sniped. If these names aren’t “desirable” then I’m not sure what is :s

 

I said most, not all.

 

Right, and out of all names sold. No issues on my end. What are the issues everyone else is having? I don’t think the process is the problem

 

The issue isn't even necessarily people like you selling names, you don't give a fuck about scamming them back. It's not worth it. The issue is when people carry out scenarios I previously stated. These do happen, and are reported privately all the time. Hence their bans, I'm sure.

 

Again it sounds like the problem is people. Regardless of the process there will always be people trying to break the rules. Imagine If everyone were to buy a name from me, there would never be a problem

 

If the suggestion was implemented, they wouldn't be able to carry out those two scams anymore. Imagine if you took it seriously

 

If Took it seriously? I live and breathe for this, of course I take it seriously. I shared my opinion on this already as soon as you posted.