[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

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[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales
  1. Unread #81 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:35 AM
  2. Zora
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Let's say you're a seller. You are allowed to do business with a DNT user. You may buy from the user, and sell to them. If you buy their name and later decide to sell it, that's allowed.
    You're not allowed to list the name for them when you don't own it yet.
     
    ^ owned likes this.
  3. Unread #82 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:38 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Thanks for the clarification, @Zora. That makes sense, and I agree that it should be that way.
     
  5. Unread #83 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:43 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Agreed. I would just like this rule to be added and expanded in the Sythe Rules to make sure there can be no room for error or misinterpretation like there has been previously.
     
    ^ Zora and owned like this.
  7. Unread #84 - Jul 13, 2023 at 9:30 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    In the mentioned role, my function was primarily that of an arbiter who applied pre-established norms. I presented a consensus verdict, which was the result of extensive discussions with other arbiters, rather than being involved in the creation of new principles.

    However, in this section of the forums, I am able to express my personal opinion regarding those norms. And in my opinion, the rules regarding the name sales should be largely abolished to preserve the 'essence of the free market'.
     
    ^ Beast likes this.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2023
  9. Unread #85 - Jul 14, 2023 at 6:45 PM
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    Alex "Play by the rules, but be ferocious."

    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    In my honest opinion, there isn't any decent enough reasons to have this new system removed.

    People claiming its just helping DNT users release their names, that is totally untrue, we still do our best at making sure these names were never on Avoid list and aren't coming from snipers/black hats. And even before comm-sales, sellers would simply do the same and then list for them if the name seemed clear, this is no different, previously these guys would simply hit you up on alt-discords anyways.

    If you want my own personal opinion, rules should straight up simply be changed to NO1 should be allowed to deal with DNT/Banned Users/Snipers/Hackers, it's literally got to a point where its just stupid how people keeps lowkey getting fed by hackers/snipers in terms of names. Or even people PAYING snipers directly to snipe some banned names back for their costumers, yes I get it, its for the costumer to get their name back, but you are paying a sniper DIRECTLY and its been ongoing for years, this actually blows my mind. We need to stay away from these people on this specific market, if they have 0 costumers, they will quit their activities and leave us alone... There has been over 1 milion USD worth of names stole EASILY in the past few years...

    I was reported few years ago because I was listing a name for someone else and the buyer wasn't aware (that was my mistake). Then it was talked within our sythe mods that it was ALLOWED to list for others, as long as both parties are aware. Our system simply made it automatic and headache-free. Before every single transaction we still encourage people to make a Sythe account and verify they are talking with the real US aswell as reminding them to vouch on sythe etc etc. We aren't taking people away from sythe, we are actually bringing people in... (See I'm close to 300 newcomers myself on my own, everyone should help attracting new members ...)

    I understand most other sellers will be annoyed by it and will want to find excuses/reasons to take it off, myself included margins went down a lot since its creation but I'm not only here for the $. (Normally a name would get us atleast 2.5-3.5x margins, Buy 500m, re-sell 1.5b per example) While now it's only bringing in 10-15%.

    Most of the costumers are happy, their name sells for a much better price instead of getting offered 30-40% of their name's value. Buyers have a much bigger list of available names to go through and pick aswell.

    If other sellers wants to team-up against this idea to get it removed (if we do not listen to the costumers) then fair enough, I can't blame em I actually am friends with most of them. Some like me, some hates me and this is totally fine. If the decision is to remove it, I'll simply go back to our previous 2.5-3.5x margins. There will be alot less names on the market so buyers will need to start overpaying again and people wanting to sell their name will get ripped-off again.

    If you do remove it make sure to;
    -Remove the ability to sell names for others. (We've been allowed for many many years and it is basicly the same thing.)
    -Remove the rights to do ANY deals with DNT/Banned_Users/Snipers/Black_Hats individuals (this is actually the issue, not the community sales itself)
     
  11. Unread #86 - Jul 14, 2023 at 7:56 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    /

    If you want my own personal opinion, rules should straight up simply be changed to NO1 should be allowed to deal with DNT/Banned Users/Snipers/Hackers, it's literally got to a point where its just stupid how people keeps lowkey getting fed by hackers/snipers in terms of names. Or even people PAYING snipers directly to snipe some banned names back for their costumers, yes I get it, its for the costumer to get their name back, but you are paying a sniper DIRECTLY and its been ongoing for years, this actually blows my mind. We need to stay away from these people on this specific market, if they have 0 costumers, they will quit their activities and leave us alone... There has been over 1 milion USD worth of names stole EASILY in the past few years...

    I was reported few years ago because I was listing a name for someone else and the buyer wasn't aware (that was my mistake). Then it was talked within our sythe mods that it was ALLOWED to list for others, as long as both parties are aware. Our system simply made it automatic and headache-free. Before every single transaction we still encourage people to make a Sythe account and verify they are talking with the real US aswell as reminding them to vouch on sythe etc etc. We aren't taking people away from sythe, we are actually bringing people in... (See I'm close to 300 newcomers myself on my own, everyone should help attracting new members ...)

    I understand most other sellers will be annoyed by it and will want to find excuses/reasons to take it off, myself included margins went down a lot since its creation but I'm not only here for the $. (Normally a name would get us atleast 2.5-3.5x margins, Buy 500m, re-sell 1.5b per example) While now it's only bringing in 10-15%.

    Most of the costumers are happy, their name sells for a much better price instead of getting offered 30-40% of their name's value. Buyers have a much bigger list of available names to go through and pick aswell.

    If other sellers wants to team-up against this idea to get it removed (if we do not listen to the costumers) then fair enough, I can't blame em I actually am friends with most of them. Some like me, some hates me and this is totally fine. If the decision is to remove it, I'll simply go back to our previous 2.5-3.5x margins. There will be alot less names on the market so buyers will need to start overpaying again and people wanting to sell their name will get ripped-off again.

    If you do remove it make sure to;
    -Remove the ability to sell names for others. (We've been allowed for many many years and it is basicly the same thing.)
    -Remove the rights to do ANY deals with DNT/Banned_Users/Snipers/Black_Hats individuals (this is actually the issue, not the community sales itself)[/QU
    you said it yourself, there just gonna ‘ hit you up on alts anyways when there dnted’ so I’m not sure how you can willingly admit and shrug off the fact that it’s not a big deal that dnted users will sell you names since they will just go on a alt account.. once again contradicting yourself like
    @AchillesOSRS

    Let’s try to remember just because you and every other name seller benefit off of allowing dnted users to sell you names on discord alts doesn’t suddenly make it okay, and the fact that your willing to shrug it off just goes to show how long even you know this has been going on.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  13. Unread #87 - Jul 14, 2023 at 8:04 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Also @Alex you seem to mention that you will simply ‘ go back to 2.5-3.5x margins ‘ and that is fine! This is a service that comes with many risks, your profit margins should reflect that. All commission sales do is facilitate the trading of names for dnted users, and if you’re worried about there being a lack of names for people to buy like you mentioned then buy more names! Also, you are shrugging off the fact that commission sales also incentivize you selling the names for as HIGH as possible so you make the most commission, im sure a lot of names would actually end up being cheaper if you and other name sellers actually had to buy the names yourself - due to the fact that it is now a risk on trade. You can read my previous post(s)in this thread most notably my reply to achillies to see examples of how much of an issue this really is despite your claims.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  15. Unread #88 - Jul 14, 2023 at 8:20 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I'm glad that Alex's goes from the IM FOR THE CUSTOMER!!! >>>
    if he doesn't get his way
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    Another braindead contradiction
    [​IMG]

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    Bro you're actually hilarious.... Also you currently have a DNT'd users name on ur com sales list as we speak @owned can confirm with a mod if need be.

    You aren't for the people, you are for your pockets be real.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  17. Unread #89 - Jul 14, 2023 at 8:38 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Would like to add too is when was there ever a name shortage?
    Names have only just recently (last few years) shot up extremely in price why? There is 2 major reasons
    1. Com sales - everyone thinks they can buy a name from 1 persons list and list it elswhere for x3 the purchase price
    ^ ye thats fine honestly i have no problem with someone making some $$
    What the issue is, is when you list the 500m name for 15b..... That is the issue... it produces a false pricing cuz 1 person looks and says well shit why is my name listed for only 500m? ima list it for 15b as well and then it snowballs? not true? heres an example https://i.imgur.com/CIRCxSg.png

    2. Name snipes - colt had a very big part when he was GG'd for a list of 4,000+ names

    Right now the market is fine, people don't always sit around and wait for 10 months to sell a name. Im 99% sure you have people requesting to update their name price on the com list in 50m intervals (sometimes less) daily.
    Us name business owners have always been profitable through buying names from Stakers now DMer degens that wanna quick dumb a 10b name for 3b. For the others that don't wanna take a loss? Go get offers, go post on sythe, maybe go open your own name trading discord?
     
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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  19. Unread #90 - Jul 14, 2023 at 11:05 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    How can you not include the fact GP went from 78c during covid down to 18c now, obviously that also affected the shot in prices lol.

    Instead of calling me all types of names like your types of person usually do, why don't you simply let me and achilles know about that DNT user so we remove his names from the listings and maybe add their names to avoid list?

    Should look at your actions before acting like this. You've been DNT'ed/Banned like what, 6 times? I've honestly no idea how you're still accepted here especially with what you've done (again) barely 2-3 months ago with that hacked name you bought straight from the hacker, and after the name got recovered HE REFUNDED YOU (LOLLL?). Did I make huge dramas and reported you multiple times on sythe over it? Nah I simply asked you few questions about it in assa's server and as usual you jumped onto personal attacks so I called it off because that's what mature people do.

    As for its for my own pockets... are you forreal? I've made easily 60-70% less than what I used to do back before comm-sales and achilles can approve. If it was for $ only there's many other things I'd do different.

    Yes I've always been for the costumers, but if sythe decides to remove this system, then sure I'll go back to our old margins which were ALOT higher... what can I do? Doesn't matter to me but that wouldn't fix any of the issues people talked above.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  21. Unread #91 - Jul 14, 2023 at 11:09 PM
  22. Alex
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    Alex "Play by the rules, but be ferocious."

    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales


    We want people's names to sell, there's no point for us to boost their prices and give them a crap service (if the name takes WAYY too long to sell). Our profit (15%) is also split between us, so most of the time even if we aim for a little higher price on their name, the very little difference in our pocket is so little its not even worth losing out on the sale, so we simply go by fair prices. The more we have listed the better (we still try and keep the names @ fair prices, we do deny LOTS of requests) and if they sell fast then it's even better.

    As for the faciliating the trades of names for DNT users, its no different then before, before our automatic system they would simply go to name sellers on alt discord accounts and have them listed on their lists as commission sales, nothing has/can be changed there unless we put DNT user's RSN's on avoid list I guess?

    When you have 6'000 members on your discord and receive hundreds of PM's every week, you can't keep track of who is DNT who isn't. Adding their known names on the Avoid list could help, I would be for it, but as everyone knows, names exchanges hands extremely often. I'm all up for a solution for this issue, removing the comm sales ain't it though :/
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
  23. Unread #92 - Jul 15, 2023 at 12:05 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    You want me to do your job?????
    Isn’t it your job to do your due dilegence in investigation before buying/selling a name? because that’s why the report hurt my status on here not because it was a “hacked” because as @President the moderator who handled the report said “There was, it just isn't convincing evidence” and that is also why the reports title was changed.
    JUST a fyi Alex sythe rules are as followed
    The rules state: "The selling of hacked, cracked, or phished names is strictly forbidden and will result in a ban."

    They don't say anything about buying

    So get off your high horse buddy & sit the fuck down because over here we speak facts not like the 99% of shit you have spewed on this topic with your own speculative thought process on how you’re helping the customer base.
    Your whole argument is IM FOR THE CUSTOMERS, BUT if the remove com sales FUCK THE CUSTOMERS.
    You’re an actual baboon & you’ve made this absolutely clear as day on this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
  25. Unread #93 - Jul 15, 2023 at 1:22 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    TLDR

    Alright I thought I should come post again to help mods make a decision here as before I was in full support but as of now I am more neutral on this subject but can provide all the pro's and con's of each decision and you guys can make a decision. @Pikachu @President @Zora hope this TLDR helps

    Pros of Keeping Community Sales:

    * - People that are selling names can get more for their name compared to if community sales weren't allowed, you can argue that this is pro customer.
    * - Less chance of user being scammed or sniped since the entire process is mediated by a Name Seller/MM. Many imposters. name snipers etc lurk at every corner willing to do anything to take your shit.
    * - The process is easier for customers wanting to sell, because they don't have to do any of the work to advertise etc. Easier for buyers as well as there is more names to be shown for sale since most of the names on the market are in two places. This and the fact the names are all public which is easier done if the names aren't yours and you aren't risking a chainban for hoarding names etc
    * - More in line with free market as President talked about, less restrictions and less rules which sythe prefers to remain in sync with and I don't blame them at all.
    * - Zora mentioned this but if com names are removed, we would just do a sponsor and have a new server not advertised on sythe for community sales. Yes this is exactly what i'd do/alex+achilles would do if thats the case but it wouldn't be advertised on sythe which is the whole point of discussion here and wouldnt get the same publicity, I already have a trading server that isnt advertised on sythe for example and almost no one joins as its purely word of mouth (because it is against the rules to advert it on sythe)

    Cons of Keeping Community Sales:

    * - Smaller Name Sellers are left in the dust, you can argue this is more free market tho, and the only name sellers benefiting are myself and alex/achilles, just delivering the truth.
    * - DNT/Banned users can sell their names more easily via alts. The reason its easier is due to the fact making a discord alt is a lot easier than making a sythe alt, Sythe Mods catch ban evaders all the time, if they were forced to sell on Sythe, it would be much more difficult for them to sell and easier to catch.
    * - It takes business away from Sythe and brings more to discord. Advertising on Sythe + Discord with a name seller would be market manipulation. Sythe advertises free market, yet they put restrictions on it when they removed discord trading servers from sythe for the very reason of fear of loosing business on Sythe. One could argue commission sales is a loophole and very similar to a trading discord and is taking business away from Sythe.
    * - Prices are higher for names, yes but not as much as people make it to be. GP is .18-.20 now therefore making prices listed in GP higher. As @owned said names do mostly maintain their value unlike accounts that can be recovered. Commission Sale prices are a bit higher because you have to account for the 15%-20% name seller broker fees
    * - Accidents are easy to make like Alex has done with the recent report and past reports. This is a con because its very hard to be 100% on top of this when having so many names listed through you. I have made a few similar mistakes as well but usually get them sorted before someone reports me thankfully, as hannah montana has said no ones perfect, but in all honesty its very tough to be squeaky clean when allowing anyone to sell a name through you, you never know who might be doing it via discord.

    Final Notes:

    Profit wise this has benefited me personally greatly (but i still do the oldschool method of flipping names) so I understand the reluctance to get it removed from Alex/Achilles and don't blame them because they do have jobs etc and commission sales makes it a lot easier and less time consuming. On whether it should be kept or removed ill let the mods discuss, if they need any more insight my PM's are always open.
     
    ^ Superfluous, owned, AchillesOSRS and 2 others like this.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
  27. Unread #94 - Jul 15, 2023 at 8:12 PM
  28. Alex
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    Alex "Play by the rules, but be ferocious."

    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales


    As usual, just throwing insults like a kid, I've no idea how Assa still supports you. Someone extremely honorable teaming with an absolute kid with no respect to anyone (as everyone can see in general chat all the time which always ends up with you banning people for absolutely no reason because they think different than you, you love that online power assa gave you though, don't you?).

    So from your sayings above, I hate costumers, BUT on your side it's ALL FINE buying from hackers BECAUSE ITS NOT AGAINST THE RULES? Don't you think its immoral buying from the people who are hacking our costumers non-stop to then immediatly re-sell to them? Easy to see who's only here for the dollars.

    Grown up men don't talk that much shit behind keyboards, you need to chill, you're not gonna make anyone *Sit the fuck down* let's be honest here.


    Back on topic, couldn't have said any better than Assa above. Will be Mods decision afterall and I'll accept it. If you do remove it, make sure to change the rules and not let anyone deal with DNT/Banned Users/Hackers/Snipers wether its on-sythe or off-sythe.

    We need to stay as a team and let these losers quit on their own due to the lack of profit.
     
  29. Unread #95 - Jul 15, 2023 at 8:25 PM
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    how is it possible to spew out so many lies? Your "information" holds no value as you don't back up a single word that spews from your mouth.
    You dodged every factual evidence based topic that i've brighten up to you and go down the route of i'm personally attacking you. If you want to talk about the discord and say i started to personally attack you first yet you are trying to make an assumption that i was friends with the person i was buying Chicken off of?
    I think you really need help, as your constant lying or maybe someone is feeding this misinformation to you? I'm really not sure what it is Alex... Your constant change of mind with Helping the customers, but if sythe doesn't go my way i'll go pouting down the hall and change my business tactics to take from the people without the capabilities of mass advertisement.

    I stand by all my statements here made in this thread, yet i'm glad to see you dodge them.

    As a business do you think the owner of M&M's irl name is M&M's? why do i own the owner discord?

    You have no clue the relationship Assassin and myself have, the way we benefit each other flawlessly and i don't take from his business as he doesn't take from mine. I mean hell you don't see me bumping his transfer thread/name thread and doing all the transfers? No it's called respect.

    Please gather facts before spouting out emotion, because again 99% of what you say can not be backed up and it makes you look very silly.
     
    ^ owned likes this.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
  31. Unread #96 - Jul 15, 2023 at 10:00 PM
  32. Alex
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    Alex "Play by the rules, but be ferocious."

    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    A text from beast without personal attacks/insults, holy shit mark this date. GJ man forreal
     
  33. Unread #97 - Jul 16, 2023 at 7:08 AM
  34. owned
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    IMO, this post is perfectly unbiased and outlines all pro's and con's to this suggestion. I believe that it provides staff with all the logic/evidence they need to make an informed decision. Otherwise, this thread is divulging into a flame-fest. My vote is to close thread and staff make a decision now that pro's/con's have been succinctly shared.

    Well said, @Assassin.
     
    ^ Beast, Zombie, Assassin and 1 other person like this.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2023
  35. Unread #98 - Jul 16, 2023 at 10:00 AM
  36. Alex
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    Alex "Play by the rules, but be ferocious."

    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales


    I agree with you on most points but the last 2 con points

    ;names did go up due to GP literally crashing by 70-80% ish since covid, people are listing names for lower than IF me/you would own it, people want money back from their name, not 2-3x profit like us. Per example, I've been selling my 2 characters @ 2b, while people are listing them @ 1.5b, the fact there is a 15% on top doesn't make the names more expensive since people aren't looking for above price range in most cases.

    ;accidents also happened before community sales, we're humans afterall we will always make mistakes. That *Proxy* RSN error I did last week was simply due to the fact I didn't see the name getting un-listed couple days prior in my logs when making the New-Names post. That error is extremely minor since it couldn't affect anyone in any way.

    It do takes away business from sythe, but remember before comm-sales how people kept getting scammed/hacked for their bank ALL THE TIME trying to make the trades or posting on sythe on their own? Trust me most of them never returned to sythe afterwards (for obvious reasons, can't blame them). Sythe is a wonderful platform but these scammers/hackers/snipers gives it an extremely bad reputation overtime unfortunately.


    Mods close this and talk it out.

    Should also make a new rule to not buy/sell/deal with snipers/hackers/DNT/Banned Users. If we don't deal with this issue they will always stick around to scam our costumers (AKA YOUR MEMBERS).
     
  37. Unread #99 - Jul 16, 2023 at 1:29 PM
  38. Beast
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    Don’t use sythe, use com sales on discord

    oh ok got it!

    What was the reason sythe disallowed open trading discords?

    competition, it took traffic away from sythe

    You just said sythe is a bad place to trade due to scammers/hackers


    Sounds more like you have an issue with sythe & how they run it. They have a great section for helping the site out since supposedly you bring customers to a site that doesn’t has an “extremely bad reputation”
    Suggestions
     
  39. Unread #100 - Jul 16, 2023 at 9:11 PM
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    ^ Milk, owned, Zombie and 2 others like this.
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