[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

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[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales
  1. Unread #61 - Jul 11, 2023 at 11:28 PM
  2. AchillesOSRS
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    So then what's the point of removing it? You yourself just said it won't eliminate it and it's been the standard for years.
     
  3. Unread #62 - Jul 12, 2023 at 1:09 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I don’t think you understood the commenters post and my response

    The commenter was suggesting that doing away with commission sales could eradicate name seller lists entirely. My reply stated that isn’t the case and that name sellers have purchased, and sold, bulk names for years prior to a rise in commission sales.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
  5. Unread #63 - Jul 12, 2023 at 1:18 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Commission sales quite literally give scammers and DNT users an outlet to sell names on Sythe through very trusted users who stand to make financial gain by facilitating the trade.
     
  7. Unread #64 - Jul 12, 2023 at 2:13 AM
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    Ah I see now. My apologies for taking your message out of context. While we may be able to do away with commission sales "officially" I don't think most users will ever want to go back to selling their names for a fraction of the cost.
     
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  9. Unread #65 - Jul 12, 2023 at 2:15 AM
  10. AchillesOSRS
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    I agree with this to a certain extent. My only problem with this view is that there has always been listing with name sellers. All we did was expand this into a public facing trading section. Assassin, Zombie, Chill, myself, and Alex have all allowed people to list with us for years before Community Sales ever came to be. All we did was give it a fancy face lift and accessibility.
     
  11. Unread #66 - Jul 12, 2023 at 2:18 AM
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    Support, as @owned mentioned earlier it does indeed give users a chance to sell names they normally would have no chance of selling ex: user is secretly DNTED on sythe so reaches out to name sellers on alt discords to list the name.
     
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  13. Unread #67 - Jul 12, 2023 at 2:27 AM
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    Okay. I see your point here. Let's say we make a perfect system, takes all the UID's from all DNT/Banned users and compiles a list of people blacklisted on Sythe and then our bot prevents them from listing. What if they make an alt? How can anyone anywhere prevent that?
     
  15. Unread #68 - Jul 12, 2023 at 6:53 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    No worries!

    Quite the opposite. Names, 99% of the time, aren't like OSRS accounts where they lose significant value due to seller not having trustworthiness because of recovery potential.

    The price of names are artificially driven up, causing small sellers to receive less and buyers to pay more, because there's a "broker" / name seller in the middle.

    That isn't the right answer. The right answer is to disallow commission sales. That's how you prevent it.

    Name sellers should only be allowed to represent, list, and sell names that they own. Sythe provides an open, public marketplace for ANY user to sell name(s) that they own, should they choose to do so.
     
    ^ Dbuffed, doctapiss, Leptin and 3 others like this.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
  17. Unread #69 - Jul 12, 2023 at 11:10 AM
  18. Leptin
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    you are contradicting yourself with this statement - that is the exact reason why it should indeed not be allowed. As you even yourself admit there is no way to know who you are dealing with - if you decide to deal with a bad actor ex: buying a name from a Vader on a alt the consequences that could come from that should be a risk tolerance you accept yourself, similar to gp selling rules regarding outsourced gold. by you allowing potential banned/dnted users to have you list names for them every customer that purchases those name(s) has to take these risks instead of you.

    of course it isn’t technically that simple, you could buy a dodgy name from a random alt and it only gets banned/stolen after the transfer, but there can also be cases of ample windows of time before a name you bought is than resold to a new customer - which reduces the possibility of this scenario happening - middleman/commission name sales are an instant transfer unlike the latter. Hope that makes sense.

    additionally, commission sales are unhealthy for the name market as it incentivizes the name sellers to drive the price up as high as possible to make the most commission - in a risk on environment where name sellers have to own all of the names they list - they are more likely to offer fairer prices especially on the riskier more expensive names. Combine that with a potential monopoly in big name selling discords and it can be a recipe for disaster
     
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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2023
  19. Unread #70 - Jul 12, 2023 at 11:45 AM
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    I agree with @owned's viewpoints above & would support this.
     
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  21. Unread #71 - Jul 12, 2023 at 4:35 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Good job on further explaining @Leptin and @owned exactly why I support this.
     
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  23. Unread #72 - Jul 12, 2023 at 5:13 PM
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    Why does the largest name trading discord @Assassin & I run want to remove com sales?
    Keep in mind we have done 2 deals this year for close to $30k each name?

    We don’t support it, it’s very obvious many other name sellers do not support it. It’s 100% a looohole for an open trading market, it destroys anybody trying to get into the market, and it’s unsafe for customers especially when they don’t know who they are dealing with & the capabilities that some individuals have when it comes to recovering, banning, or just any malicious intent. Not all customers are good customers, but let’s not let our “customers” that we care so dearly for have to be subject to shady activity one is capable of.
     
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  25. Unread #73 - Jul 13, 2023 at 3:35 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but here's my take:

    As Marx said, there haunts a specter through Sythe, and it's various communists who seek more and more regulations instead of a free market. But joking aside, the naming market is already complicated enough. In my opinion, we shouldn't play the role of policing the origin or trade source of a name. The free market should simply do its job, and all these rules only lead to an unnecessary surplus.
     
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  27. Unread #74 - Jul 13, 2023 at 6:29 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    One could argue the opposite, actually - that allowing commission sales impedes the natural process of an open and free market. Because we have an open market, ALL Sythe users are free to sell names as they please, when they please, so long as they aren't DNT. Commission sales allows for an environment where DNT's can sell under the perceived trust of a greedy name seller. Furthermore, to @Leptin's point, it's allowed for the formation of a monopoly. Again, this negatively impacts the organic flow of an open market.

    If you were to review my suggestion post history, I've always posted in favor of less rules, more education. I am for a free market. You and I are on the same page in that regard. In this instance, I see commission name sales as a hindrance.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2023
  29. Unread #75 - Jul 13, 2023 at 6:52 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    This has become a lengthy thread with many people posting their opinions. I understand both parties POV on this. I personally don't think disallowing community name sales/ listing names for other people won't really solve anything.

    Name sellers have been listing names for other people for years. This was clearly a good thing for the name sellers due to the low risk involved, but also for the people wishing to sell their names without having to deal with the trading/customers. Due to the popularity of this Alex & Achilles made the process a bit fancier and easier. This has definitely had an impact on the name market but also came with the increased risk of listing names for DNT/Banned users.

    So, what would happen if we were to disallow community name sales?
    I don't think it will take long before new Discord servers will be made dedicated to community name sales. They may not be advertised on Sythe, so they can even be made open trading. They will even be allowed to list names for DNT users, as long as they're not knowingly trading stolen names.
    All they have to do is make a sponsor channel in their own Discord server referring to the Community Name server. Perhaps an @ everyone tag here and there to promote it. Before you know it Community name sales are back, just not directly advertised on Sythe.

    In conclusion: I don't think disallowing community name sales will solve anything. Instead I think we should look at another way to prevent DNT users from having their names sold indirectly on Sythe.
     
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  31. Unread #76 - Jul 13, 2023 at 6:56 AM
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    I understand that you’re not the ONLY staff member to make the decision here, but since you dealt with it I would assume your OPINION for the ruling was how this was ruled out.
    > origin?
    > source >
    Beast - knowingly bought a potentially stolen name.
     
  33. Unread #77 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:00 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I think it is best if someone tldr both side of the argument here, ideally, someone who is pro and someone who is anti community name sales, as there high chance we will be looking at this very soon.
     
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  35. Unread #78 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:10 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I have a question:

    Are name sellers allowed to advertise the commission sale of a name they know is owned by a DNT user?

    The rules do not state that they cannot do this, but it should. Otherwise, they're knowingly providing an avenue for DNT users to sell.
     
  37. Unread #79 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:16 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    The following rule would apply:
    However, it's allowed to buy from a DNT user directly. Just not list it for them.
     
  39. Unread #80 - Jul 13, 2023 at 7:26 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I'm sorry, that went right over my head if it answered my question. I'm just curious yes/no, not trying to prove a point or anything. I genuinely don't know the answer.

    "Posting in the market on behalf of users who are banned or DNT'd is strictly prohibited."

    "However, it's allowed to buy from a DNT user directly. Just not list it for them."

    Are those two statements contradictory, or am I just monkey-IQ?
     
    ^ Dbuffed likes this.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2023
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